[Reinventing]

Baxter1, my advice would be--if you start to feel defensive, then that would be a red flag. We just don't want you "beaten up" more than BD, OM, spouse turning into an alien has already done.

You don't have to be mean or belligerent, but remember that MLCers gaslight, lie, and bend things their way with 1/2 truths. Don't let this do any damage to you. Even with the best MC in the world, they can only work with what is presented to them and the MLCer can spin quite the tale to defend their fantasy life.

If this impedes your healing, then reconsider. You and your healing are the most important thing.

[Nas]

I have a call into one and I will feel them out as to their stance on saving marriages.

(bold emphasis added by Nas)

As for the MC time will tell, I’ve been told to have zero expectations so I’m going in hoping for the best but expecting the worst.

Baxter, I fear your expectations continue to be such that you are setting yourself up for disappointment. As has been stated in the great advice you're being given, a marriage counselor can be a big help for two people who enter counseling both with the intention of saving the marriage. But their job is not to give advice or push towards a decision either way - therefore, whether they are personally "pro" or "anti" anything is (or at least should be) a moot point.

IMO, the idea of a pro-marriage MC is a misnomer, and a bit of an unethical premise. No MC enters a session where one party wants to end a marriage and the other party wants it to continue and essentially says, "Well, I am pro-marriage, therefore I'm here to help ONLY the party who wants the marriage to continue." If a therapist is approaching your wife as if she is not an autonomous adult capable of making her own decisions and that it's their job to change her mind, that's a red flag - even if what your wife thinks she wants right now is not what you want. 

I'm sorry to be blunt and it's not my intent to make you feel bad or cause you worry over MC. I learned so many of my life lessons the hard way, so now if I think a little bluntness will help, I speak up. We always say MLCers have a right to choose what they choose, even when we don't agree with those choices, or even when those choices hurt us. It's what makes detachment so necessary. I agree that going into MC with the idea that it will allow you to reiterate your stance on not leaving your home and not nesting - a neutral ground to re-lay that boundary for yourself - could be good. But please temper your expectations with regards to any MC's ability (or desire) to influence your wife's choices.

[Baxter1]

Nas,
Those truth darts hurt every time! I appreciate the bluntness, I’m going into MC with open eyes. If it was a regular M we would both have the goal of getting back together. I don’t feel she is sharing that. View with me. I feel she either wants the MC to validate her so she can leave or so she can check MC off the list. We’ll see how it goes, I still have to figure out insurance and scheduling so it may be a while before anything comes if this.
Thanks for your(sometimes painful) council.

[Baxter1]

More Journaling:

Set up an appointment to have an intake interview with the MC. I took the lead on this and will do the interview. As for W she seems to be slowing down a bit, she’s actually sleeping at the house most nights. This summer she would disappear for days in end. Maybe it’s because summer is over, or maybe she’s just getting burnt out.
My S17 seems mad at me and I’m not sure why. Trying to talk to him is like talking to a brick wall.
He is a teen so being this way is part of it but he’s not like this with W. Maybe he sees me not sleeping in the same room as W and he thinks I did something? Or maybe he’s just rebelling as teens do.
Hopefully something comes of the MC, I’m going in cautiously optimistic on this one. If nothing else we can hash out the fact that I’m not leaving the home. The thought of someone else in our home with the kids doesn’t really work for me.

[FrenchHusband]

Hi Baxter, so finally you will have a MC, it is funny how your story is similar to mine with some months delay ! My main advise would be to read again my thread in June-July and the very nice advises I got when I had the MC. IMO, yes you can prepare to the worse, meaning your wife looking back to your marriage with dark glasses and listing everything what you have done wrong. Listen is the best thing to do, if you can take note that could be useful. One thing that I know in hindsight : when I recognize W is blaming me for something I did not do or rewriting the past, it is projection, she is speaking to herself. That helps me now to not react or defend myself.

"to gently remind her that our M wasn’t as bad as she thinks it was" looks to me not a good idea. By doing so, you may place yourself in an adversarial (or antagonistic ?) position against her, if she thinks your M was the worse ever in the world.
When I had the opportunity to talk about the past, I have chosen to praise and be thankful to my W and it was coming from my heart. MLCers lack self esteem and I have been niggardly with compliments for too long before BD.

Had I blamed W during the MC (speaking about OM, affair, or other hot topics), I am convinced now that W would have raised the topic of separation this day.

Also you can have a look on threads of Alvinthemaker and Readytofixmyself, both male LBS with at-home spouses who had MC, both MC did not bring good results, thanks to them we have the written stories as a reference. Reading their threads helped me to prepare the MC, helped me to shut my mouth, it helps me now to understand that a second session is irrelevant at the moment, thanks God W is not pushing for it.

Edit I am currently reading a very interesting thread from denjef31, and ex MLCer who became LBS and explains very clearly the fog and the state of mind of a person under MLC. I recommend this thread to you and to all newbies.

[Baxter1]

FH-

Thanks for the tip, I’ll take a look. I’ve been reading the ShockSis pages and it’s been helpful.

So update on our situation:
Working on setting up MC, not too confident in the results but we shall see what comes of it. W seems to be slowing down a bit with the high energy stuff. She still stays out a night here and there( mostly weekends) but it seems to be less frequent. Not sure if this is because it’s fall and the fun summer stuff is winding down. I remember RCR and others here have mentioned that high energy replayers slow down then eventually just stay in a low energy angry state. Has that been everyone’s experience?
My fear is that she will eventually settle down, not in our home but with someone else.
We offer meals, king bed, WiFi, a pool and access to your own children. I would think that my offer would be an easy pick but with MLC I guess you never can tell.

[Standing Strong]

Has that been everyone’s experience?

Yup - for me at least.

Gotta burn out and slow down. I think the burning out is important, the ones who are just slow..... well.... less likely to wear themselves out.
That struggle and rebellion against themselves is needed.
Settling down with someone else? Sure it can happen, but can they really be happy wherever they are? Probably not. So does someone else really matter? They aren't the solution, and they're not the cause of the problem. Later on it's evident they are a big nothing-burger and almost always are discarded like a piece of garbage.

-SS

[WHY]

Bax your W is coming up to the 6 month past bomb drop mark right?  She still seems high energy to me.  Another 3-6 months you'll know for sure, but she doesnt seem like a couch potato "seething below the surface" type wallower to me.

RCR did a vid on this once.  The wallower LBSs wants a high energy MLCers cause their wallowers appear to get stuck in the tunnel for YEARS while their lives burn down and the LBS can no longer take the daily mental torture.  The high energy LBSs want wallowers because even though their high energy MLCers are moving faster through the tunnel, they're leaving a trail of carnage and destruction causing the LBS to suffer greatly.

There is no right answer here or easier path going forward.  Except that it doesnt matter and your game plan remains the same going forward.  Your actions remain the same either way. 

Detach.  GAL.  Drop the rope.  Move forward as if.  Please take heed to the "as if" part.  I should have done this sooner.     

[AlvinTheMaker]

WHY speaks very wise words....

If I could give the past version of myself an advice, it would be not dropping the rope, but dropping the fears. IMHO fear gives MLCr all the power over LBS (and who knows, it may feed MLCr anxiety as well). Whether you overcome fears by faith (like Standing Strong) or through psychology (like yours truly), matters really not. But it is key in taking control of your future life (regardless of MLCr behaviour).

I am not saying pondering consequences of MC, or what if MLCr moves away would be vain. On the contrary. IMHO it is a required step in you facing and overcoming your fears, Bax.  And this too is something where a good MC can guide you safely.

My personal experience is that when you rip a man away from his home, family, heart, dreams and wealth you are not left with nothing as most likely fear. You are left with "purest" version of yourself. You were you before you had all, and you will be you after all is lost. If you have done "the work" on you, you can and will recreate even better life for yourself and your family regardless of what the MLCr does or does not do.

None of this is easy, nor pain free... but it is part of going from A to B in life.

Just my sample of one

Alvin.