[FrenchHusband]

Hi all,

After many days up I had also a down. During lunch in family, I have been rigid with the children, asking them to eat sthing instead of another thing. D16 and D14 have done what I said (reluctantly). Then W arrived and gave to S5 the food that I just refused to the Ds. So a discussion raised in the table, and as I was not happy that W did not support me in coparenting, asked her to support my position. After she refused, I raised the voice and said to W that she is now breaking our family after she broke our couple, and I said to her to tell the truth to the children : she plans to abandon them.
D16 said outloud : "we don't want to hear that" (and she was right). So I left the table and calmed down during 10 minutes in the marital room. Then I came back in living room, had a small discussion with the children, and went out for a walk.

Finally I walked during 3 hours and I have been able to cool down my head. I need to work still on my rigidity first. Then I have understood my fear : I don't fear that W leaves our home, I am prepared and I know I will be good whatever the outcome. It is for the children that I have still some fears : I don't want them to be abandonned and to miss their mum. Especially for S5, but it is still important for D14 and D16. Now I said it outloud, in a way I am relieved the steam is out of the pressure cooker. W abandoning our children is something out of my control. It might happen but I can do nothing to stop it. So I have to let go and do nothing on that. Only thing I can do is pray. 

When I went back to the walk, W was cleaning the house. She had also tidied S5's room with him and was discussing with him in living room. In the evening I apologized to the children during dinner (W was out of house) and I told them I won't do it again. It is not their crisis, the less they are involved, the better it is for everybody.

On another topic, D14 and D16 told me that they don't want to have always guests at home because that gives them some work, and also they are conducting the conversation. I listened to them and explained that I will continue to invite guests at our home because it is important for me, I will decrease the rythm and I will ask less from them.

[FaithWalker]

FH, don't beat yourself up.  We are not perfect.  And MLC is not an easy thing to live with.  I had many moments where my pressure cooker overflowed.

It was good you apologized to the D's.  They need to know that we are not perfect either, and that we can apologize when needed.

Thank goodness that every day brings a new clean slate and a new chance to do things differently.

[MadLuv]

My kids are adults, but I made mistakes along the way. When I got my wits about me I told them that if I did anything that brought them more anxiety or pain that I was sorry, but I was a human in deep pain and I was doing the best I could in the situation and if I could have done better I would have. 

[FrenchHusband]

Thank FW and ML for your nice comments. I am not beating me up (I hope). I know I am not perfect, I take all insights I can from all people around me to improve myself, and it makes me feel good. My relationship with the children is very good, and I agree it is important for them to see I am able to apologize when needed.
Recently during a car journey, D16 and D14 were playing together a "game" they invented : they were telling criticisms alternately beginning with "I do not appreciate when you...." and the answer was always "I hear what you say with a sincere heart..." and again "I do not appreciate when you..."
I found this "game" very healthy for their relationship, I asked to play with them one time during the travel. I love them and they love me.

I give some news of Young Mom (YM). Let's see whether I will get a lecture  from Treasur ?
Last week I organized at our home a gathering of S5's friends. Obviously the parents were there, and it happens that there are very good relationships between us parents. So at home there were 7 parents and 9 children (3-5yo) to share the homemade (own made) "galette des rois / cake of the kings". It was a very good quality time, W said hello to everybody at the beginning before leaving for work, and D16 & D14 joined also the crew and (without me asking) took care of the youngest.

YM was here, for the first time in our house, and she confided to me that she had a boyfriend since 2 weeks, she even confided to me (and to another mum who is very close to both of us) a few details about their relationship. I am glad with my spontaneous internal reactions to this confidence : firstly I was glad for her, secondly I was glad for this confirmation that I am "friendzoned" !

2 days after, YM told me she seems her boyfriend is a narcissistic pervert, and now she has fired him. (Some people here will question this diagnosis by reading, and I totally understand your position. Well I have been confronted to a narcissistic pervert when I was 22, I spent almost 2 years to recover fully, and I can tell you I recognize the patterns from what YM told me). YM is angry with herself because she is aware she is attracted by this kind of guys, and she thought she had worked this point and she was safe. Well it is her story, I beg you not to question her, what I want to write is that I believe her, and as it is my story I want to highlight my reaction : even if I saw early signs of the bad behaviours from the boyfriend, I have not tried to save YM or to warn her. When she told me about her doubts, I kept listening and I have let her save herself from the situation. I am glad also for YM that she is now more able to recognize early the bad patterns from some guys, and why she seeks those guys (guess what, childhood wounds). I am glad for me that I am a "friendzoned" friend, it shows me I am staying the course that I have chosen.

W's birthday came and went. This time I have mirrored what W made for my last birthday : I have cooked a nice meal and bought cakes at the pastry. D14 volunteered to cook a lemon pie and we helped each other in the kitchen : quality time for both of us and for S5. For the gift I mirrored Christmas : I made a common gift with the children. Birthday meal has been simple with a lot of smile and laughs, children and I song "happy birthday".

The following day I was teleworking when I received a delivery from a cardboard box for W. When W arrived at home she opened it and asked me "who sent these flowers ?" I said "I don't know", what is true. I could have added "and I don't care" but that would be too much energy wasted than it deserves. Is it from a patient ? from OM ? from Belgium's King ? 
I journal this story here only because I find it fun : really, who can send flowers in a cardboard box ?

[Treasur]

No lecture from me lol.
I actually wanted to say well done on the YM issue for giving yourself time to think before you allowed something to evolve beyond perhaps what you intentionally chose. And that perhaps the benefit of it is that you are now far more capable of being the kind of genuine respectful friend that YM might need as it sounds as if she has her own baggage to resolve.

On the kid’s game…..my only thought is that there is a lot of research on the balance most humans need between positive and negative feedback (about 7 to 1) and how our brains are wired to instinctively ‘record’ the negative more than the positive. The world can be very quick to give us negative messages and social media can feed that for younger folks, I think. It could be a useful life lesson for them to share that kind of info with them and even encourage them to switch the game to include some ‘things I appreciate about you’ messages too. I wonder why they have decided to play this game? Have you asked?

Your w asking YOU who sent HER birthday flowers is just plain weird. Of course she knows, or can find out from the company if she really wanted to. I suspect she was just testing your level of knowledge or interest…..but it’s not a normal response, is it? Weird. And perhaps just a bit tedious from your pov.

[Reinventing]

And perhaps just a bit tedious from your pov.

That's a good place to get to. When thoughtless and/or antics get to be tedious.

[FrenchHusband]

No lecture from me lol.
I actually wanted to say well done on the YM issue for giving yourself time to think before you allowed something to evolve beyond perhaps what you intentionally chose. And that perhaps the benefit of it is that you are now far more capable of being the kind of genuine respectful friend that YM might need as it sounds as if she has her own baggage to resolve.

so instead of lecture, I get compliments  . There is still danger for me, I am aware, but with time I feel more able to prevent it, and yes I try to be a genuine and respectful friend, you are right.

On the kid’s game…..my only thought is that there is a lot of research on the balance most humans need between positive and negative feedback (about 7 to 1) and how our brains are wired to instinctively ‘record’ the negative more than the positive. The world can be very quick to give us negative messages and social media can feed that for younger folks, I think. It could be a useful life lesson for them to share that kind of info with them and even encourage them to switch the game to include some ‘things I appreciate about you’ messages too. I wonder why they have decided to play this game? Have you asked?

good idea. For the appreciation, I do that often with kids (more often actually than before BD). But they are at an age where they have their own games, so I let them some space usually to make their own mistakes and discoveries, and I take action only when their interactions becomes damaging or when they ask.

Your w asking YOU who sent HER birthday flowers is just plain weird. Of course she knows, or can find out from the company if she really wanted to. I suspect she was just testing your level of knowledge or interest…..but it’s not a normal response, is it? Weird. And perhaps just a bit tedious from your pov.

Tests, that is the right guess I think. I got a few tests in the last months : new lingery drying in our common (me, W and S5) bathroom ; bips added to the phone for texts, YouTube African influencers blaming France policy on W's phone... Actually, it might be that W is trying to push my buttons ? Well, with detachment there are no buttons anymore and few interest, so I observe these tests disappear very soon as I don't react.

And perhaps just a bit tedious from your pov.

That's a good place to get to. When thoughtless and/or antics get to be tedious.

Actually, the place I am now is fun, not tedious. These tests give me a small smile internally when I recognize them. It might be I am missing some of them ?

[FrenchHusband]

Not sure I see how tanking OM´s position helps you as your wife is as culpable as he is. She is an adult and is responsible for her own actions. By giving her a pass and laying the responsibility on the "pastor" you are controlling the situation and I fear it will come back to bite you in the butt.

In hindsight, I recognize that your October's warning was right : my action has come back to bite me in the butt as you, Treasur and Kaydee predicted it. You were right with your advice. And I don't regret what I have done, it felt right for me to do it and to denounce the abuse.

The bishop asked me recently "proofs" that there is a relationship between W and OM. So I snooped again and then sent to him account records of the personal banck account from W, with frequent highways tolls that show the secret contacts, and recent bank transfers from OM to W.
What happened ? The bishop says he has seen the priest, and he believes there is no relationship between him and W. And according to OM the money transferred is for FIL, after me having refused to give money to W. That is totally false : I have always supported W's family and gladly, I call frequently FIL and there was no money given to him recently, and no money need : when FIL receives money from us he always thanks me warmly.
So the bishop does not believe me and chooses to see elsewhere. I am fine with it, it is his responsibility and his belief, I have made my duty.

Then comes the (very small) pain in the butt : now W says she has seen her bank advisor, and "someone" has access to her bank account, and she says there will be an inquiry.
Again, on that point my reaction is low, the inquiry threat did not affect me : no sleep disorder, no ruminating. And I booked an appointment with a lawyer (a recent friend)

It was very good for me to have the appointment with the lawyer : now I am prepared to what may happen in case W files. To sum up, there are 2 possibilities in France : agreement divorce (when spouses can agree), or judicial divorce (when judge makes the decision). Main divorces are made by agreement, because judicial divorce is a big pain and takes years, and the judges and lawyers are pushing for it.
Now I am ready to a divorce. I don't want it, but I know how it works. I think W is not ready for the process : she has no clear idea of our assets and what she can expect, above all she does not know what she wants. I think she wants a quick fix to her pain, and judicial divorce are very long. And to get an agreement divorce, well, she needs to discuss with me and to say clearly what she wants, something she has been unable to do for a long time. It might be that W is afraid by her many elephants becoming visible in our living-room ? Then, before getting a divorce, we need to sell what we own : 2 appartments where we have lived and maybe the house where we live now.

"Good" news also : the split custody is now the norm, the judges force spouses to split custody in case of judicial divorce, and obviously it would be my choice.

Regarding the inquiry threat, there is nothing to do : there is no robbery between spouses in French laws (so no information robbery), there has been no harm. Policemen have many other things to do. The lawyer advised me also NOT to snoop anymore, because it makes me no good. Well, I knew it

Also on 204 topic, I informed W about all the events to come in the year, celebrations, holiday scenarios, world championship, etc... She knows all the agendas, in 2023 she took 4 days off for holidays with our family (I took more than 40). In 2024 she is free to join us and to propose her ideas. Let's see what happens, I am determined to enjoy every day to the most.

[FrenchHusband]

A bit of journaling for today. I had 2 discussions with W last week, one awful and one pretty good.

Afwul discussion
I was teleworking in the living room, S5 and D14 in their rooms and W came back from work. She began to blame me because the table in the kitchen was dirty. Told her I had eaten outside (on the terrace with S5). W continued to say I am at home so everything should be in order, and "it is always like that". Then I exploded and spit out many things that I keep inside me since more than 1 year. It was awful. At the end I came very close from W, she hit me on the face, I took her hands so that she could not hurt me, and D14 arrived in the living room. She was devastated, she told us that her and S5 can hear us, and we both disgust her.

Since that argument D16 and D14 are angry towards me, and I am also angry towards me. It was not the right time to have such a discussion. Above all, in the presence of the children. It has been hard for me to have D16 and D14 angry towards me because usually we have a good and strong relationship. For the first time, I reconsidered if I keep my position of Standing : until now I assumed I can endure the damages from MLC and at home spouse. My reaction is a warning, and my anger also.

On the other hand, what was inside me is out now, and it was a result of old snooping. Now this is out, and I don't fill the pain tank again as I am not snooping again. So I continue Standing, and I will continue to work on myself, I am still a work in progress.

Money discussion
2 days after the awful discussion, I came back to W with a discussion that I have put on hold since more than 1 year : the money. I had prepared the discussion well, I knew W could be afraid about this discussion because she has hidden from me a lot of money and expenses since Dec. 2019. So first I read a  letter, then we had the discussion. It went well, I got a few monstering at the beginning and I handled it well (with listening and empathy). I kept my line "no blame, no assumption, no emphasis on lies or approximations, mainly listening". W then went quiet and talked well. I set up the boundary I wanted to put regarding my own projects that have now levelled up in priority. I think that W is relieved because she was afraid me trying to control how she uses "her" money to "help her family", and I repeated to her it is fine for me.
 
The discussion evolved in "children education topic" (another sensitive topic), and it went well. W said that "you Westerners speak too much, about the friends, about the family". Well, it is even more obvious as W right now is almost non talking with the children, fully compartmentized. I told W why it is important for me to talk about these people, alive or dead, to make them alive in the life of our children. As W was repeating things that I had told to the children from my IC regarding my childhood wounds, I told W a bit about my counseling sessions and why it was important for me to share them. Still relationship with "my" family topic...

During the convo, W gave me hints a few times about her (crazy) plans : she wanted to extend the discussion saying "we won't have many opportunities to discuss again like that" or "I will pray that you don't raise the children against me". I know she is still plotting (crazy) plans to abandon me and the children, but she is not ready to tell the truth, so I did not force her to explain them now.

Outcomes of the 2 discussions
I am slowly reconnecting with our daughters, it goes faster with D16. No real change with W in the next days, she is again doing many chores at home but again very disconnected with the children. S5's birthday will happen in a few days. I will do my best to make it a nice event for all family first : I will make a good dinner and I invited S5's friend and her parents who are ukrainian refugges. Then together with a mom from another S5's friend, I organize a whole afternoon with 15 guests (+ parents + brothers and sisters).

[FaithWalker]

Sorry about the awful conversation.  Hopefully things have had a chance to air out some since then, especially with your kids.