[KayDee]

Thanks for your message Baxter1. It does sound like there are similarities between our stories.

How do you handle communication? Did you have NC or dark period at all? I have set a boundary recently so I am not allowing her to hug (or any other physical contact for that matter) me whilst she still has OMx (may be more than one from what I can tell). She respected that, but finds it difficult and wanted to approach me today. I went dark a little over 2 weeks now, with minimal communication.

She acts normal most of the time, I did get the monster over the weekend as I stopped her financial support. Today she wanted hugs that I refused. But I do need a "bridge" so I don't lose all my love/emotions towards her.

I am genuinly interested to see after how long people started relaxing dark mode? I am looking to establish a situation where we communicate "normally" hoping that releases the pressure on the rest of the family, especially the kids.

I think to begin with there is a temptation to think that there is some sort of rule book, or procedure to this, but (and I am sorry to say this) you will keep getting up-ended if you do things based on your W's behaviour. Or how you think you can impact that behaviour. Reinventing said it, manage communication and boundaries for you. Your W is in crisis. She may act immature a lot of the time but she is not child that is to be punished. For me, one mantra that seems to be ring true a lot of the time is 'MLC gets worse before it gets better'. My understanding and experience of that is that when we have BD, we are crushed beyond belief, but during that time there is a lot of back and forth. A lot of emotionality where we see the old spouse and the passion. But as they progress a distance increases and with this we non-crisis spouses get some sold ground, Then BAM! something comes left field. Or right field, or from the sky. Or... there's just no telling. So whatever you do now, do it for your own peace of mind. To be calm for you kids. To keep as true to your values as you are able. To keep you integrity and dignity. Keep laughing, finding joy and gratitude. These things will keep you going. Detaching doesn't happen quickly. It's a slow process, cannot be rushed. But, what RCR calls choosing joy - that's actually a great way to start each day.

Your W has shown clear signs of depression this last couple of years. You may find the book Depression Fallout by Ann Sheffield instructive also. MLC is depression, this will give you a slightly different lens.

So sorry you are here, but you seems to be doing really well, keep fighting Keepfighting

[KayDee]

And I crossed FTT in the ether we say similar things but in a different way

[Treasur]

Thanks for your message Baxter1. It does sound like there are similarities between our stories.

How do you handle communication? Did you have NC or dark period at all? I have set a boundary recently so I am not allowing her to hug (or any other physical contact for that matter) me whilst she still has OMx (may be more than one from what I can tell). She respected that, but finds it difficult and wanted to approach me today. I went dark a little over 2 weeks now, with minimal communication.

She acts normal most of the time, I did get the monster over the weekend as I stopped her financial support. Today she wanted hugs that I refused. But I do need a "bridge" so I don't lose all my love/emotions towards her.

I am genuinly interested to see after how long people started relaxing dark mode? I am looking to establish a situation where we communicate "normally" hoping that releases the pressure on the rest of the family, especially the kids.

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘stopping her financial support’? If you are doing so to protect yourself, or punish her. If she has her own resources. If she does not, what legal advice you have taken about your rights and obligations. Or indeed if she has. It’s a difficult thing to navigate, I imagine, particularly if a spouse is off spending marital resources partying if you are the sole income earner. Or the day to day environment created for your children.

You are entitled to put your own boundaries where you choose. At the same time, it is worth being aware of your own intentions bc they are rarely straightforward in any of us in this kind of situation. And MLC folks, like teenagers, tend not to much like boundaries lol….so it is not uncommon to see them react strongly, sometimes with charm, sometimes tears, sometimes rage. Sometimes all three  . Which is why it’s important to be clear in your own mind about boundaries that are for your wellbeing vs those that might be intended to punish or influence their actions one way or another. And I imagine this is particularly difficult when you are living under the same roof with kids, but it is important if you are currently committed to Standing bc that means signing up for a marathon not a sprint. Years rather than months probably. I suspect in that situation the best one can aim for is a kind of ‘doing no additional harm’ principle? But I imagine it must be very difficult. Have you read other stories here from those in a live-in situation like Standing Strong? Are there particular things that people who have had a live in situation might help you with?

It is good imho, as xyzcf said, to be reminded that although there is no magic rule book to fix this, there are different approaches that LBS take and that this is ok too. We will support you and cheer you on regardless. For most of us, bc this is such a strange situation to find ourselves in, there is necessarily some trial and error in it. And we tend to winnow out our own lines in the sand and our own beliefs and our own limits as we go. That’s normal.

Imho I think some of the shorthand we use here - things like NC or detachment or boundaries - are not as black and white as they may first seem. There’s an understandable temptation when things are so confusing and overwhelming to treat them as goals in themselves rather than tools to achieve our real goals. And of course, depending on the details of each LBS situation, those goals may differ. And they evolve over time and with events too. Take NC - I’m not sure that’s a reasonable goal if  one is living under the same roof with children, how could it be? Whereas lessening your participation on some types of conversation or changing some of your own pre BD habits or focusing on doing things independently with your children or GAL activities for yourself could be. Less or different contact as opposed to NC if that make sense.

You talk about being 80% detached but bless you, it’s easy to see from the cheap seats that you are far from that. The way you phrase your questions about dark and not dark for instance shows that clearly. Which is so normal and completely understandable. Been there, had the t shirt  Detachment operates on a sliding scale, I think, and we tend to shuffle our way towards it rather than leap. And it has a mechanics side - what you do and don’t do - and an emotional side - what you feel and think and don’t. Imho the second comes quite a way down the path after the first. Which is normal too. But it helps to accept the reality of our own attachment as we actually feel it at a given time - it has a lot of layers, doesn’t it - rather than use it as a magic stick imho. As a simple shorthand, if you are doing, thinking or feeling anything as a function of what your wife is or may be doing, thinking or feeling? That’s where the attachment comes out to play. And it plays just as easily with wanting to be ‘nice’ as wanting to be ‘not nice’ tbh, to be ‘fair’ or ‘reasonable’ or ‘tough’ or ‘kind’ or ‘dark’. If the underlying melody is about producing some kind of response or reaction from your spouse, whatever is driving that is not about detachment….its something else. And naming it, at least to yourself, takes back your power to choose with care and focus on your own goals.

It’s pretty normal too to be slightly afraid that our own love and desire for attachment is the only thing keeping the connection alive. And that if we detach more, we will somehow finish the demolition job that our spouse started. That it’s a kind of giving up perhaps. Those are imho understandable fears bc changing our lens does necessarily change our vista on a bunch of things….and we don’t always know where that will take us or what will be left later down the line. But acknowledging those fears imho is part of the LBS process. As is accepting what we cannot control or change and imagining an unknown future when some of the very things we might fear most do actually happen. Do you know what you are most afraid of in that as yet unknown future?

Which brings me full circle to your own goals. Regardless of the tools you use, what are you trying to acheive in the current situation as it is? What do you see as your most pressing top three priorities right now? And what do you think you most need right now to stabilise your own life ship? Bc those priorities reflect what you see as the specifics of your own situation, and your own character, and understanding them will help you - and us lol - support you better.

[keepfighting]

Thanks for your replies and support.

If you use dark or NC or dim as a way to manipulate the MLCer it will backfire. Those approaches are meant to secure YOUR sanity and well-being NOT to control the situation.

Not looking to control the situation anymore. I honestly needed it to distance myself from the situation and it helped a lot.

KD,

But as they progress a distance increases and with this we non-crisis spouses get some sold ground, Then BAM! something comes left field. Or right field, or from the sky. Or... there's just no telling.

I experienced this quite a lot, lol, when I thought things have settled down a bit, something unexpected came up and shook the ground beneath me. TBH, the other way is true also, when some really wrong situations turned around quite quickly.

Treasur,

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘stopping her financial support’? If you are doing so to protect yourself, or punish her. If she has her own resources. If she does not, what legal advice you have taken about your rights and obligations. Or indeed if she has. It’s a difficult thing to navigate, I imagine, particularly if a spouse is off spending marital resources partying if you are the sole income earner.

This was more referring to her 'spending' money. I do provide everything else for her, but I clearly stated I am not willing to finance her night out spendings anymore. Luckily, she is not a crazy spender, not even during this period, but I am not letting my gard down on this front either. If I am completely honest, part of this action was also me thinking, ok if she wants out, she may as well experience what life is without my support.

Which is why it’s important to be clear in your own mind about boundaries that are for your wellbeing vs those that might be intended to punish or influence their actions one way or another.

As stated above, the boundary is for my own sanity.

... it is important if you are currently committed to Standing bc that means signing up for a marathon not a sprint. Years rather than months probably. I suspect in that situation the best one can aim for is a kind of ‘doing no additional harm’ principle? But I imagine it must be very difficult. Have you read other stories here from those in a live-in situation like Standing Strong?

I know I am in a marathon based on the numerous stories I have read here. We had a crazy last few weeks, lots of ups and downs on her part, crazy actions, out of the world behaviour, etc. Now we are I guess in the next period of quiet before the storm, don't know... she does not cycled much this last few days, I do know things are not all well in 'lala land'. If only things would stabilize a bit, it would be easier to live with it I guess, but I do realise that's an impossible wish.

As said, I read many stories, Baxter1 story is the one I am reading through now, his sitch seems very familiar to mine. I am a pretty easy going person, but I think Baxter is handling the situation much  better, guess I have lots to learn from him

Take NC - I’m not sure that’s a reasonable goal if  one is living under the same roof with children, how could it be? Whereas lessening your participation on some types of conversation or changing some of your own pre BD habits or focusing on doing things independently with your children or GAL activities for yourself could be. Less or different contact as opposed to NC if that make sense.

NC is not for me and I don't think it even possible to do as long as you are living under the same roof. If not for anything else, simply because of the kids. Whilst they see something is wrong in our family, going NC is potentially harmful for them, so absolutely no. I do give her space, she goes out most of the nights lately to OM, spends about 2h with him then she comes home. During our last 'adult conversation' she did appreciate me not asking questions anymore and just letting her be. It is hard, but no more questions. It still hurts when she goes out, but every day is better I feel it in the sense that I am detaching. And I am with Baxter, having a live-in MLCer is a tough nut, but I still prefer she coming home every night so at least I know she is safe.

I did exactly that Treasur, not spending much time in common with my W, it's mostly weekend activities when we are doing things witht the kids, dayouts, etc.

Which brings me full circle to your own goals. Regardless of the tools you use, what are you trying to acheive in the current situation as it is? What do you see as your most pressing top three priorities right now? And what do you think you most need right now to stabilise your own life ship? Bc those priorities reflect what you see as the specifics of your own situation, and your own character, and understanding them will help you - and us lol - support you better.

This is a tough one, but will have a go:
 1. detach - I need to achieve this so I can function as a father, as the provider for the family - I do feel I am not in a strong position on this front
 2. some sort of normality in the house (huh) - trying to achieve this for my kids
 3. GAL - made some progress, but more is needed

[UrsaMajor]

One other thing to keep in mind is what is meant by "detaching."

What Detaching is NOT is disconnecting from your Mid-Lifer - becoming indifferent or apathetic. That is what many people at first assume that this means. That is NOT it.

What detaching DOES mean is that you have "detached" your emotional state of (well) being from the Mid-Lifer's rollercoaster of emotions - that your emotional state is not coupled to theirs, that their ups and downs are not causing you to cycle up and down. Basically, detaching is taking back ownership and control of your own emotional state of being while leaving the Mid-Lifer to theirs. Detaching is what RCR refers to as "getting OFF the Rollercoaster."  There is an enormous difference between standing on solid ground and watching the rollercoaster go by, up and down, doing the loops, the twists, or the curves and sitting in the first car while experiencing the same.....

[Helpnewc]

Thanks Ursa,

I think I described detachment to my psychologist a me feeling like I was now scientist observing behaviour rather than it sending me for a loop. It was more well that’s quite extreme but it did not impact how I felt.

Being scientist observing the experiment is much better than being part of it.

[Treasur]

This is a tough one, but will have a go:
 1. detach - I need to achieve this so I can function as a father, as the provider for the family - I do feel I am not in a strong position on this front
 2. some sort of normality in the house (huh) - trying to achieve this for my kids
 3. GAL - made some progress, but more is needed

Ok, good start.
Let me have a go at helping you unpick those a bit so you can find it easier to learn to nail them down maybe?

1. Sounds like that’s an ‘in order to’ so the real goal isn’t detachment but what sits underneath. Something about being able to continue working well and bringing home the bacon? And something about the kind of father you want to be which is more than financial? So, maybe two goals in there. And how much of either is about fear of not vs intention to? (Which would be understandable given what you shared about your recent work history, of course) What would make you feel on stronger ground here?

2. What does ‘normal’ mean to you and your kids if you remove your wife’s behaviour from it (bc you can’t control that)? If normal was a 10, where do you think you score right now? What do your kids value most, do you think? And how are they doing right now? Is the kids normal the same as yours or different? Is ‘normal’ the right word for your goal, given that the reality of the situation probably doesn’t feel very normal, or is there a better one? Idk…calm, safe, routine…?

3. What’s the goal for your GAL? Bc GAL is a kind of tool, a route to….what? That’s implied a bit in your ‘more is needed’ comment perhaps….that you have some kind of goal you’re not reaching? What is it? Could be lots of different things….a more internal ‘feeling like x about myself’ thing or a more external ‘achieving y outcome’ thing. Even a not unhealthy distraction or short term coping strategy thing. Do you know which? More than one goal maybe?

Worth imho having a chew on these…..
With a few starting principles in mind perhaps…

It’s more about direction than specific outcomes right now probably.
Good enough is almost always more than good enough.
Take out every single bit that you personally can’t control and that does not belong to you….which usually includes other peoples feelings and behaviours lol. You just focus on doing you the best you can.
Start small, go slow and steady. Breathe. Fall over, learn, get up again is just fine - it’s how humans experiment and learn and grow.
Accept your fears but try to make goals based on what you want more than what you don’t want if that makes sense.
Learn to shoot the metaphorical wolf closest to the sled at a given time - and it is not always the one that is howling most loudly. Which is why slow and steady helps bc it gives you time to think before you react.
Start taking care of how you talk to yourself about yourself bc often our self is listening when we do lol. Be fair but kind. Be encouraging. Like teaching small kids to ride a bike  Take note of your progress and success on an equal footing to your failures or frustrations. Bc fear does not talk to us accurately and it can skew our perceptions of who and where we are so it helps to balance it out a bit imho.

It sounds, reading between the lines, that your biggest fear is the one about being able to function well enough to keep working well and providing resources for your family? Again, 1-10 score where 10 is excellent, how are you doing with that? What do you think you need to score 1 or 2 points higher? How realistic is your fear, and what’s the evidence for that? What would help? What’s your plan B contingency? How might you possibly be getting in your own way? How are you doing with the basics….sleep, energy, attention, support, focus, time? And how would you know if you’d met that goal?

Have a muse
And then write those three or four goals out again in words that are more focused and feel right as a direction for you right now. Three or four is a perfect number.
You got this, my friend, even if it feels like you might not.

[FrenchHusband]

Welcome to our brother&sisterhood ! What brings us together is the strange sharing to be all considered by our spouses as devil's second cousin... The advices you get here are very good ones, and you are free to not follow them or to fail sometimes.

And again, a new male LBS with a live-in wife. Is it me or the statistics are changing ? In the oldest archives, most of the LBS (from far) were wives, and now there are more and more husbands. Are there explanations of this trend ?

[KayDee]

And again, a new male LBS with a live-in wife. Is it me or the statistics are changing ? In the oldest archives, most of the LBS (from far) were wives, and now there are more and more husbands. Are there explanations of this trend ?

Possibly that men, seeing other men here, feel more comfortable. That makes most sense to me. That and the, positive, shift of men increasingly being more at ease sharing feelings these days.

[keepfighting]

Treasur

Lots of good advise in there thanks. I read your post twice, but think I need a few more readings to be able to give you a meaningful reply.

FH, thanks for the welcome. As others before me said for sure, I already know about how welcoming and great people here are, I just wish I was never forced to join this club

KD, in the past the conception was that men cheated more than women. Well, recent statistics show that this changed and is a close 50/50.