[Reinventing]

Don't expect MC to help her if she's in MLC. MC can be very painful for the LBS since the MLCer can use MC to blame the LBS or otherwise use problems in the marriage (that were not really there) to justify their behavior. The therapist doesn't know what is true or not about the marriage and can unwittingly help justify the MLCer.

What MC can do is cause damage to the LBS because of the things said during the sessions. Then the LBS ends up having to process that and usually remembers it for a long time.

Perhaps she could go to individual counseling instead of MC. IC for both of you could be a pathway forward, with future MC when both of you truly want to work on the marriage (getting to that point can take years if it does happen).

Take care and look at this as a very long process. Use the advice to live as if they are not coming back to help you work on what you can control, which is you.

This is very tough to go through. It hurts. You won't always feel this way. It will get better.

[Treasur]

Thank you for the warm welcome but I wish we were all meeting on different terms, of course. My wife’s been very candid up to this point telling me she’s not ready for marriage counseling when she knows the issues are with herself, and she needs to figure them out first. She knows the has  issues to deal with and I give her credit for seeing it! I’m glad you’re still in the good fight. I’m trying to understand what God is trying to teach me thru this…

I’m glad your still in the fight

All LBS seem to go through their own process of building their own mental picture of what happened/is happening. Like a jigsaw. Which usually requires us to take a pause and consider why we think what we think, whether our old assumptions still hold water and what we do when observable facts challenge our beliefs. I’m not sure any LBS here ends up with exactly the same picture even if parts of the jigsaw are similar.

Imho MLC is a shorthand for a particular kind of significant fracturing that makes someone unrecognisable to us. Again there may be similarities but not all MLC folks are identical and perhaps not every story here is an MLC story…..or perhaps there is just a spectrum.

Building your own jigsaw can be a bit mentally exhausting bc it does tend to involve some questioning of one’s own beliefs. So it takes a bit of time too. From the cheap seats, if one unpicks it, MC would make sense if a) you honestly believe it is primarily a marriage problem as the cause rather than an effect and therefore a marriage solution and b) if both people in the relationship see a purpose to it which matters enough to give it a good honest go.

What do you think is the case in your current situation as it stands? And why do you think that?

[Baxter1]

I’m going to jump on and say MC isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. We just did it and the councilor gave up after two sessions. You both have to be on the same page for MC to work, both have the common goal of reconnecting, my W was so far on the side of D and I was on the other side, there was zero common ground. That being said IC(and hero’s spouse of course) has been very helpful to talk through emotions, have a sounding board to talk about what you’re going through, these are great tools.
It’s easy to say ‘detachment will help you’ but what does that mean? It’s different for everyone but I just try to stay in my own lane, if she leaves for a night,week, whatever I just let it slide off of me. If she monsters and freaks out, just let it go. Again easy to say but harder to practice. I think it just comes with time.

[lost88]

It’s not a marriage issue and sh wants to do IC for herself. I’m at the point where I’m losing hope and may end up accelerating her wishes come spring. I can’t live like this for years …. It’s not gonna be possible. What your saying is accurate - I’m not even sure who she is

[Treasur]

It’s not a marriage issue and sh wants to do IC for herself. I’m at the point where I’m losing hope and may end up accelerating her wishes come spring. I can’t live like this for years …. It’s not gonna be possible. What your saying is accurate - I’m not even sure who she is

What do you mean specifically by ‘accelerating her wishes come spring’?

Most of us remember a time of exhaustion and hopelessness when we felt like you seem to feel now. There’s a temptation I think to do x or y because we just long for the pain and uncertainty to end. Not our place to tell you what to do or not do….what I would encourage you to do though is breathe and take your time to think well and wisely.
What is your goal? And how will choice x or y meet it? And at what cost?

As an example, let’s say your big goal is to ‘not carry on living like this’…..what does that actually mean to you? Let’s say you decide that what it means is the feeling of limbo and uncertainty and you decide that filing for divorce is the way to replace that with more control over your own future life and a plan with some predictable outcomes. (Not saying this is, or should be, how you think….just trying to illustrate by working an example!)

Divorce might give you some of what you feel you need….but a legal process like this might also create some new challenges and extend some of the limbo in other ways. So, what are your other options? What else can you do to reduce that feeling of limbo or increase your feeling of certainty? Perhaps even things that have nothing to do with your marriage or your wife’s behaviour? Or that you can create despite these? And what are the pros and cons of those? Do you see what I mean?

It’s a seemingly shared truth for LBS that this time when we feel most confused and vulnerable, and therefore not at our best, is also a time when we need to deploy our best quality thinking and problem solving skills. And traumatised or anxious brains tend to crave quick solutions and A or B answers bc of the distress we feel in the place that we find ourselves. That’s normal. Sucks though, right?
But you do have options, almost certainly more than you currently think you have.
Take your time to step back and up a bit to consider them.

As a general rule, when we humans fail to problem solve well, it is almost always bc we lose sight of the specific detail of what it is we are actually trying to solve. And the real pecking order of our own priorities. Imho that is often where our most creative options lie and where we make peace with the likely effects of whatever our choice is bc we  know we have looked closely at way more than A or B before committing to a course of action. That we know the problem we are actually trying to solve and why it matters so much to us. Less about the speed and more about the quality perhaps lol…..even very smart, experienced folks can fall into that trap, the illusion of action as we often call it….you've probably seen it before in your own working life or your wider life experience, those times when it becomes obvious that x is a great solution but unfortunately for the wrong real problem!

So, my best advice is to get a big piece of paper, a pen and a cup of your preferred beverage and try to pin down first what your real objective is….and then you can scribble away at some wild and wacky ideas on how to acheive it despite the situation and all of the things beyond your control before you choose the best path forward from here for you. 

[lost88]

Appreciate the feedback - I guess im beginning to give up standing. I wear my emotions on my sleeve and have never been good at faking things. While I love this group it seems most end in D and since my wife is focused on that as the most likely outcome .. why should I fight or have any hope? I’m not filing but but choosing not to fight for us either .. I’ve always been a black and white kinda guy. This isn’t living … and this may help me to move past the daily stress …

[xyzcf]

I’m not filing but but choosing not to fight for us either .. I’ve always been a black and white kinda guy. This isn’t living … and this may help me to move past the daily stress

Perhaps one of the hardest things to accept is that we cannot fight for our marriage...absolutely nothing we can do. Our spouses are 100% committed to their new life.

It doesn't seem possible that we cannot resolve whatever the problems were, that our loved one sees this as the only way out....

As we say very often, this is not about us and it's not about the marriage.

It breaks our hearts. It destroys a great deal of ourselves in the process.

Our beliefs about marriage, our beliefs about the relationship we had is shattered.

To pick up the pieces, to put ourselves back again is what we try to do and it isn't easy, but it will come...there has to be a time for grief, there has to be a time to figure out what we feel is important to us and that includes how we interact with the MLCer.

What was once impossible for us to conceive (never in 32 years did the word "divorce" ever enter into our conversations, it was totally against our faith, totally against what we both believed until he had his crisis).

The stress and what this does to us physically and emotionally is very damaging. I found a therapist that worked with me from a mind/body approach effective. That is, rather than "talk therapy" she helped me feel what my body was experiencing and gave me tools to change how my physiology was affected by the stress.

I am so sorry that you are in this situation. Knowing that others were having the same thoughts/feelings/ the stories, helped me to slowly move along in my own healing..because it all seemed so crazy...but I was not the only person having this happen to her.

[lost88]

Yeah - this really hit home. And part of the reason like - why fight it ? Why delay it ? Just about everyone here has tried and the results aren’t good. Never in my life have I wanted to fast forward but I’d like to rn. I’m going to be damaged good after this - why would ever trust anyone again ? Is it really worth it ? It’s like the death of your spouse but they are still alive … it’s just no longer them.
Tks for sharing

[Nas]

It’s like the death of your spouse but they are still alive … it’s just no longer them.

This to me is the reason many of us sought out a community, whether we call it MLC or not, whether we're hoping our spouse reconnects with us or not.
It's not about ensuring reconciliation or getting a definitive answer to what happened - it's knowing there are others who understand and support our need to process ambiguous loss and disenfranchised grief. (I'd encourage you to google both of those terms as it may help in guiding steps toward your individual healing.)

[xyzcf]

I’m going to be damaged good after this - why would ever trust anyone again ? Is it really worth it?

Yes we are "damaged" but from the many many stories here, we heal. There are scars and wounds that will always be there. They become a part of who we are and we grow new "parts" as we learn to accept and put the past behind us. Each individual in their own way.

I am not the person I was before. I still miss my husband and the life we had...I do not find this life alone "better" even though I have tried every type of "GALing" imaginable  .. Things are better now. I had not been able to feel "joy" for such a long time. I knew what "joy" was but cold not feel it...the therapist I saw helped me find myself as well as the feelings of joy again.

I won't allow myself to "test" whether I could trust again..personally, it would be very very difficult for me to do so but that is not the case for others here.

The reality is, we don't know what will happen.  Some marriages recover, some people have new relationships, some of us remain alone. I have contact with him and some family time which matters greatly to me. Most people don't support that, but it is what I want...as I try to make sure that I do not become bitter and that I accept who he has become.

It's all hard. As you said, they are not dead, they are still alive so it is difficult to have any sense of closure.