[I Am The Salad]

I'm currently living with my partner of almost 9 years (we're not married but have a S6 together). He has been with OW on and off for just over 2 years. It's almost 2 years since I found out about her but the signs of MLC were there for about 4 years (perhaps more) and he had another OW during that time that I didn't know about. He appears to have digested the affair/MLC script and spews it out at regular intervals.

He's come close to leaving home a few times but can't quite bring himself to do it. He says it's because of S6. If you saw us in our daily life, you wouldn't know anything was wrong. We get on well, seek out and enjoy each other's company, parent well and as a team, are affectionate to each other (hugs/kisses)... he just has a double life where every couple of weeks he disppears for a day or two to spend with OW and we are no longer sexually intimate (for last 4 months - because OW was pushing for monogamy and getting very upset. Oh the irony!) but he still checks me out when he thinks I'm not looking. He says we're not 'together' but also doesn't want anyone else to know. We sleep in separate beds. A few close friends know but our families don't (they're not very useful/nurturing/understanding) and he doesn't bring OW into our circle (or even within 100 miles of our home!).

I have got to the point where I can step back from all of this and see it for the painful-yet-fascinating experience it is. I know it's not my fault and I can't do anything to change it or force it to happen quicker. I am Standing. I am also quite tired and want OW to disappear asap so we can start on the long journey of sorting all of this mess out.

OW lives over 2 hours away, is recently divorced (just when she met H and he was in the depths of depression), has 3 teenage kids, is 10 years older than me (H has mummy issues), unemployed, very much not his physical, intellectual or even social type (H says neither of the OW are younger, prettier or cleverer than me...gee thanks!) and has become some kind of spiritual guru for H. We're not religious but he's become obsessed with some New Age spirituality and, from what I can gather, that's what they do (apart from the obvious). Oh, and send each other dirty photos. I have called her a 'mother-figure-therapist-you-can-f***' and on another occasion said it was as if he'd found God and was now in bed with the vicar. He said he wouldn't disgree with either statement  H only sees her every 2-3 weeks for 24-48 hours, where they run off to a fancy hotel and live in an alternative reality for the time. He says he likes her because 'she's not real' (WTF?!?). He knows about limerence and says he's definietly not in it (despite being on script) and definitely not MLC (also on that script). I feel like I'm witnessing a car crash in extreme slow-motion!

I'd love to hear from anyone who has experience of a similar situation where MLCer is at home and there is OW.

I'm trying not to let him cake-eat but it's hard! He brings me a cup of tea in bed every morning, and if we're not on the school run, he'll climb in next to me and eat his toast. He seeks me out in the evenings to tell me about his day (often snuggles up and usually ends up chatting for hours) and he comes to ask me opinions on work etc. The boundaries are that there's nothing sexual, but there is intimacy and it has actually improved our relationship and made us closer. Think OW would hit the roof if she saw our daily interactions.

I have been GALing. Going out with girlfriends, sometimes a night away. He never knows who I'm with or where I've gone. I've told him that's a priviledge he's lost. I also don't cook for him, unless I want to. I don't clear up after him (but he still does all the laundry - result!). I've lost 45lbs, had my hair done at a fancy salon and am in better shape than when he met me. I've worked a lot on my own issues and have found a strength and resilience I didn't know I had.

I know that if we can get through this then we will be stronger than ever. I found this forum just before Christmas and it's really helped and kept me sane. I've been reading SlowFade's story thread, along with a few others, and am taking a lot from them.

Any insights or encouragement you can offer would be much appreciated.

[Baxter1]

I’m part of the at Home MLC club. My W has been home since 3/23, alienator confirmed. 2 years? I’m struggling getting through 11 months. We have S15 and S18 at home with us, we coparent well, even though we barely speak. In standing, I’ve seen glimpses of core W in there so I’m not giving up.
Sounds like you’re taking this in stride, i agree there’s not much anyone can do, you just have get through it. Welcome to the Forum, lots of great people here who definitely understand and are very helpful.

[xyzcf]

Welcome to HS. I am glad that you are finding it helpful.

Songanddance is a thread you would be interested in reading. Her husband lived at home for many years whicle having an alienator.

You are GALIng and walking your own journey which is very positive.

I have been "Standing" for a very long time. I was asked by another poster if I regret it...and I honestly will say, not one bit. It is the right choice for me and my family and each of us gets to decide what is right for our situation.

I don't subscribe to the phrases "cake eating" or being a "door mat". I do believe that they are in a crisis and I actually sorry for the lives they live as they search endlessly for something that will fill the void within.

My therapist said to me, as I was contemplating if I should have contact or not with my husband (he did not live here) that I can change my mind from one day to the next..it is totally my choice and any decision does not have to be carved in stone. That helped me a great deal to just be...eventually coming to an acceptance of who he is which allowed me to find peace and joy once more in my life.

Good luck, sounds like you are very aware of what is happening and are handling things well....the best we can under the circumstances.

[Treasur]

Practicalities first….how old are you both? Have either of you been married or experienced infidelity before? How entangled are your finances given that you are not married? How easy would it be for you to take care of yourself and your son independently without his involvement if you needed to?

The simplest answer to your title question is to lock the cake away and hide the key. Or start selling carrots. But then you know that. 

It is not my place to tell you why your partner is doing what he’s doing, if he is in MLC or not, or what should be acceptable to you as a way to live your life. Or whether you should serve cake or carrots. Or how important monogamy is to you.
But it is an important question imho for you to ask yourself.
Bc based on what you post, this is a 9 year relationship with at least 2 ow that you know of over the last couple of years and one of whom is still an active player in your wider life…that’s what about 25% of your time together? So, if one were a betting woman, how does that stack up to you? What do the bare factual bones as you can see them suggest to you about him, you and how you want to live your life? And what do you want to do with that?

Bc understanding what you are trying to achieve starting from where you currently are will help you plot your own path forward to cake or carrots. And it will help us to support you better bc there are no ‘right’ answers, just the most right answer for you right now.

[MadLuv]

I also think a little more details to know what this is, but the fact he is kind and snuggling seems a but against the MLC pattern and the affairs though out doesn’t then seem like a sudden flip in character. I also can not diagnose a “true” mlcer, but those things did stand out a bit that it’s not the norm when we see an MLC.

With that said, no matter if he is in a MLC or not. He clearly is in a struggle with what he wants and who he is. Protect your heart and health, because he is not right now. Keep journaling. Read and gain knowledge. It truly helps to understand where you are and what you are dealing with.

I’m so sorry you find yourself here , but there are so many here with open hearts and empathy when you need it most.

[mcm64d]

There are some truly lovely, caring, and intelligent people on here who specialize in empathy.

[I Am The Salad]

Thanks for your replies Baxter1, XY, Treasur, ML, and mcm64d all really helpful.

Baxter, I definitely struggled with the first year but it's got easier with time and putting energy into myself. I'm currently reading through your threads and will reply on there once I get to the end - there are certainly a lot of similarities that I can see between our situations (and many others on here).

XY, thank you for reminding me about choice. I may well have carrot cake at the moment!

For me, family unity is super important and the person H has become is very out of character, even to the point where other people think he's gone a bit weird and they don't know the full story. He says he's got himself into a situation based on the false belief that I didn't love him (he convinced himself I was in love with our neighbour... who isn't even into women!) and now his mental health is so tied up in his A that he's worried that when he tries to stop he falls into deep depression (he's tried a few times, most of the 2 years he's not been seeing her but has been texting) and he's also enjoying himself - he says he like the attention.

I'm 44, he's 47. He's been married before (no kids) and no infidelity for either of us. Finances are separate but he owns the house and I have no rights to stay if he wants me to leave. We did the maths and neither of us can afford to live apart and also neither of us want to! We both work at home most of the time and our son has access to both of us whenever he wants (apart from school time) and we both don't want that to change. It's the point we don't get past.

The affairs were a sudden flip that happened once the pandemic hit. There was a definite change in our relationship around that time. He's got a complicated FOO and I think having our son really highlighted them (I know it suddenly made me focus on mine!) and his coping mechanism was always work, work, work and the attention/validation he got from it (he has the kind of job where he has an audience). When Covid hit, he lost his business and then his health (couldn't get out of bed for 6 months) and he decided that he'd get all his dopamine hits and attention from OW.

He acts differently, talks differently, dresses differently, suddenly thinks he's got supernatural healing powers... I got upset after Christmas as it had gone really well and I felt sad that it might be the last family Christmas (stop projecting - I know). He said it was ok because next Christmas we'd all spend it together - me, H, S6, OW and her 3x kids. Oh, and his dream situation is that we all 7 of us live together in our house and can't understand why I don't think that's a reasonable goal. He even suggested to her that he could sleep with both of us and then we'd all be happy. You can imagine how that went down...

So yeah, you couldn't make this stuff up.

[Evermore]

You see, he had convinced himself that I had fallen out of love with him. 

Projection 101

While I don't disagree with this, I have a slightly different take. Things usually tip into crisis under the weight of difficulties, during which time the crisis person's self-esteem or self worth hits a very low point. It's likely then they are looking to their spouse to notice their distress / depression, to lift them up somehow. But we poor souls, we haven't really understood the depths of what is going on, usually because the MLC did not communicate that anything was wrong. And, from my observation, this situation often occurs when the non-crisis spouse's attention may be focused elsewhere for a while. Could be for something good - new job, a success, a new baby even. Or not so good, like an illness, issues with children or parents needing support etc. And because fear of rejection and abandonment is common with the FOO that lays the foundation for crisis the MLC maybe internalises or perceives neglect. The spectre of abandonment. None of this is your fault, or about you, or any of us in fact, but I do think there is some truth in the feeling of neglect and not being loved, or loved enough (I had both stated as a 'cause' at BD). People who fear (really pathologically fear) abandonment, often abandon first. It's a very destructive defense mechanism.

This is my perception - but once the crisis begins, I don't think there's much that can be done to convince the crisis person otherwise because someone else saw an opportunity and, in the case of your H, with some great cooking and linguistic gymnastics presented a lovely vision of escape. It's a house of cards of course, but he needs to work that out. Plus the issue of not communicating his needs, fearing rejection and running away - they are for him to untangle.

And BTW, it's not how he feels about her, it's how she makes him feel. There's a crucial distinction.

So sorry you are here, but glad you found the forum and are getting some IC.

Yes, I agree completely that sometimes this is exactly what happens. I have said before that I believe this is what happened with my H.

We had 3 late teen daughters who I was driving all over the countryside to netball/parties/jobs and also teaching them to drive. I was working part time (7 days a fortnight) and he was working away (away during the week, home on weekends). AND we were building an investment house. It was nearing completion so we were paying two mortgages and therefore couldn’t afford to pay someone to do the final infrastructure work. This then fell to H on his weekends home. We were both financially stressed and life was just exhausting.

But the finish line was in sight. We just needed to get the house finished and tenants in and we could relax and take a breather. I knew therefore it wasn’t forever. I thought he knew that too. Actually I’m sure some part of him did know that. But unbeknownst to me he was feeling exactly as KD describes above. He was feeling unloved and unappreciated (as well as exhausted and depressed, both of which I did know about). Life felt blah and boring and just like a big slog to get through each day.

Enter the OW who immediately made him feel AWESOME! If you have convinced yourself you are not loved, that your marriage is not working and you see no future in that marriage, then it is no real surprise that you are open to using the limerance of a new relationship to ‘find yourself a new and brighter future’ (I know this now looking back, didn’t have a clue at the time!  ).

In my case (and I’m sure most others!) OW was also looking for a ‘bright new future’. She was needy, greedy and weak and she easily allowed my H to convince her that our marriage was on the rocks. That we were just like roommates, brother/sister now. That I felt the same way and I wouldn’t be surprised when he left; would in fact welcome him leaving.

He was completely and utterly SHOCKED therefore that I was so so DEVASTATED by his leaving. For us it was too late by then. He had started the ball rolling (‘this was the hardest decision I’ve ever had to make’) and felt he needed to stick to his decision. When in his ‘OW-bubble’ it felt great. He didn’t have to think about the devastation he’d wrought in his ‘old life bubble’. Thinking about turning back and unravelling what he’d done must have felt impossible, and unnecessary. He didn’t need to, OW was his future now and didn’t she just cling on and promise heaven. It would all work out for the best. I would see that eventually. 

So, yeah, I agree this is sometimes what happens. I didn’t get the monster that often shows up for others. I think if he hadn’t left straight away and if his relationship with OW hadn’t been just stable enough to allow him to build a reasonable new life we might have had a shot at trying again (his T&G in 2022 showed me that it would have been possible). It’s not the way my story has played out though. Other stories happen differently. No story is the same (and I’m sorry my story isn’t one of hope for a restoration). Some people DO get the chance to try again.

He acts differently, talks differently, dresses differently, suddenly thinks he's got supernatural healing powers... I got upset after Christmas as it had gone really well and I felt sad that it might be the last family Christmas (stop projecting - I know). He said it was ok because next Christmas we'd all spend it together - me, H, S6, OW and her 3x kids. Oh, and his dream situation is that we all 7 of us live together in our house and can't understand why I don't think that's a reasonable goal. He even suggested to her that he could sleep with both of us and then we'd all be happy. You can imagine how that went down...

I got this too! It’s so crazy. He kept saying ‘we need to get back to normal as soon as we can, for the kids’. And by that he meant all of us spending time together like one big happy family. He definitely envisioned family events where I’d be there with our girls and he’d be there with OW.

Hilariously, five years on, we’ve now started doing kinda this (our D25’s BDay last November and a Xmas Eve party). I’m sure though it’s not how he imagined it would be (because I don’t interact with the OW at all and just act like she’s not there). But then it’s not how I imagined it would be either. It’s been quite easy to ignore her. She really is nothing in my life.

You sound stable and strong. I can see why you’ve decided to handle your situation as you are. I’m typing this on my phone so it’s likely a bit jumbled and all over the shop. Sorry about that. Just wanted to post to welcome you and let you know I’m someone who really does understands the weirdness!

[Evermore]

I think the first bit of that post was from another thread! Haha, that’ll learn me to reply from my phone. It’s likely relevant here on your thread as well IATS (Sal?). So I’ll leave it 😊

[UrsaMajor]

He acts differently, talks differently, dresses differently, suddenly thinks he's got supernatural healing powers... I got upset after Christmas as it had gone really well and I felt sad that it might be the last family Christmas (stop projecting - I know). He said it was ok because next Christmas we'd all spend it together - me, H, S6, OW and her 3x kids. Oh, and his dream situation is that we all 7 of us live together in our house and can't understand why I don't think that's a reasonable goal. He even suggested to her that he could sleep with both of us and then we'd all be happy. You can imagine how that went down...

So yeah, you couldn't make this stuff up.

You are right, you couldn't make this stuff up if you tried....