[Nas]

But his actions are like he still loves us all and for whatever reason he is leading a double life -

From the very little that you’ve written, I’m finding it hard to see his behavior as loving, or anything more than part arrogance, part guilt, and part doing what is best for him. Having the kids over to meet his girlfriend without even having a conversation with you about it? Asking you about your whereabouts while at the same time living a life completely separate from you?

As for the other things like saying well done and crying while holding the baby, oftentimes in the very early days we want so badly to see signs that we assign meaning to things they do. We project what we want to be true onto their actions instead of seeing their actions for what they are, and this can often lead us to not protecting ourselves or giving them too much of a pass. At best, he is doing a tick under the bare minimum for his kids and nothing at all for you. But a lot of things to suit himself. It does not really look from the outside like a double life that he’s leading, it looks he’s just doing exactly what he wants and handling as a little responsibility as he can.

In regards to the Debt he’s racked up, it’s really important that you get all the facts you can about your responsibility in that. The fact that you helped him clean up a bunch of debt once before and now he’s done it again is not a great sign. It’s a pattern of irresponsibility. And it is absolutely not yours to clean up but you do need to find out how much of it you would be responsible for and get all your ducks in a row to make sure that nothing more can fall at your feet. Take it from someone who learned the very hard way that whatever your imagined worst case scenario is in regards to financial infidelity, there is even worse than that. I can’t remember if you’ve already sought legal advice but it’s really in your best interest to do so immediately if not sooner. You don’t have to take any action, but please at least get all the information that you can.

[UrsaMajor]

In regards to the Debt he’s racked up, it’s really important that you get all the facts you can about your responsibility in that. The fact that you helped him clean up a bunch of debt once before and now he’s done it again is not a great sign. It’s a pattern of irresponsibility. And it is absolutely not yours to clean up but you do need to find out how much of it you would be responsible for and get all your ducks in a row to make sure that nothing more can fall at your feet. Take it from someone who learned the very hard way that whatever your imagined worst case scenario is in regards to financial infidelity, there is even worse than that. I can’t remember if you’ve already sought legal advice but it’s really in your best interest to do so immediately if not sooner. You don’t have to take any action, but please at least get all the information that you can.

I can not emphasize this enough.

MLCxW1 went batsnot crazy with racking up bills after we were separated. I took on my part after the D process started and cleared it. She continued to rack up more and more debt to the point where she, after the D was final, had to declare bankruptcy, had to sell the house she took on (I sold my interest to her for $1 and walked away from all the equity), etc., etc.   She was spending money like water flows over Niagara Falls. If I hadn't gotten my poo in one sock and gotten the financial stuff separated before, I'd have been in a world of hurt, potentially lost my job due to Security Clearance having a major issue with being too deep in debt, etc.

Make sure that your hiney is covered financially from his shenanigans.

As for the rest, what Nas wrote is spot on.... I see a lot of

in his actins and words and not a lot of

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Imho you are wise, and sane, Hollie, to keep your lens focused on all the big picture list of your h’s actions or inactions that you wrote. Bc those are factual observable things and can be a great bit of ground to stand on mentally when/if you feel nuts. Those kind of facts help us feel we can safely trust our own judgement and sense of reality.

I agree with this and I will add that with an infant and other children, he is leaving you in a state of exhaustion. Then he is pulling his stunts and that is just as emotionally taxing as well, leaving you physically and mentally exhausted. He has moved in with someone else and he then expects you to report to him and be engaged. His conduct at best is abhorrent and comes across as abusive towards you.

Wednesdays during his contact he still comes into the house especially as we have the baby - he seems so comfortable - sits in the same place he used to - last night ordered me food and we all ate together… managed my son who has difficulties together - and said well done for the teamwork - I decorated the kids room over the weekend on my own. And he said how well I’ve done - he often cries when Holding the baby..?

My advice is that when he is in the house with the kids, you leave. Don't eat his food and don't listen to his stupid comments. Teamwork...hmmm while you are with another woman. he isn't a team player...he is just a player. Going dark and cutting him out of your world will eliminate at least one source of annoyance that is draining far too much of your emotional and physical resources. You have to change your baby's diapers- not his. Going dark is not to punish him or change him. It is for your own mentally well being.

As for the other things like saying well done and crying while holding the baby, oftentimes in the very early days we want so badly to see signs that we assign meaning to things they do. We project what we want to be true onto their actions instead of seeing their actions for what they are, and this can often lead us to not protecting ourselves or giving them too much of a pass.

Guilty as charged for this as well. Even if she briefly said hello, or smiled at me, I took this for a positive. It's all fluff and no stuff. At least in my situation, my kids were older and more self-sufficient. You have to focus on what you can control and that is you and your family. That is your fight and priority. Get legal and file yourself if it protects you.

As I mentioned before, you are setting boundaries to protect you, not punish or hurt him. He may get upset, but that is just a reflection of who he is as a person. And it is not a positive reflection.

I know this is hard and just like the others that have gone through the turmoil, my heart aches for you and your family. That is why you need to worry less about him and focus more on your own self care. You are the only adult in your children's lives and you need to be strong for them.

Be good to yourself and have a great weekend,

(((Ready)))

[Sark1999]

He's mentally and almost physically torturing you. D is way better than this situation he puts you in. You have been too kind to him, my wife would have exploded on me 100x times. Eventually, you will learn to detach and just to focus on yourself and kids and move on to build yourself up, (physically, financially, emotionally) then you ll be at a situation that whatever happens you will still be happy with. That's how you should love and respect yourself my friend. Get whatever help you need from family and friends to get start shall be your priority, not for him but for yourself, and he will also notice that he's losing you.

[Hollie220423]

So as mentioned before he asked for marriage certificate for divorce - has filed and I received application. Felt ok as new it was coming still sad however.

In recent weeks he has started to have our children overnight minus the baby at the OW’s house and been out for ‘family’ days out - I’ve just let everything unfold haven’t fought or begged at any point.

This week my middle child has been so poorly with chicken pox - he was asking what he can do - I again have let him lead and figure it out not put pressure on him or told him what I need - he came over to help with bath and bed etc. bought a load of shopping over when he came offered to buy dinner and for me to eat with them all - I  declined  and went for a drive for some breathing space as been stuck in for 6 days now all in my own with the kids.

Yesterday he was sending me texts sayin - sometimes he thinks what the f*ck are we doing? And that he wishes he had handled things differently so we were not where we are now.

And that ehen he bought the kids back he realised how much he misses family time - has wanted to seem to spend more time in the house. And has been/seemed comfortable when here - but has stil filed?!?

I just said I can understand why he felt the way he did and that sometimes these things happen to make us grow as people for the better etc. but that I agree it is crazy and I sometimes to wonder how we got here.

Told him I had been on a few days which is said he is glad I have and told me well done?!?

I think I am going to continue to go through the motions of everything - this is his decision and journey.

I’m not sure how to feel.. all we all want is our family’s back but then again he left me at such. Vulnerable time - but I do understand depression and how the brain works.

[KayDee]

So as mentioned before he asked for marriage certificate for divorce - has filed and I received application. Felt ok as new it was coming still sad however. 

Yesterday he was sending me texts sayin - sometimes he thinks what the f*ck are we doing? And that he wishes he had handled things differently so we were not where we are now.

And that ehen he bought the kids back he realised how much he misses family time - has wanted to seem to spend more time in the house. And has been/seemed comfortable when here - but has stil filed?!?

I just said I can understand why he felt the way he did and that sometimes these things happen to make us grow as people for the better etc. but that I agree it is crazy and I sometimes to wonder how we got here. .

What jumped out at me was the 'WE' in these statements. OK, yes, I get it, it takes two in a relationship (bla bla bla), but here it was ONE who walked away from all their responsibilities, without a two-way dialogue, without warning, without (sorry) a care for those he left shattered in his wake. So, no, there is no WE here. There is 'what the f*ck am I doing' and 'where HE is now'. Excuse my anger, but in the way he writes this, he is avoiding responsibility for his actions. Again.

Yes, it is good to better understand the depressed mind, but depression is common to us all. It is likely we will all have bouts of depression at some point in our lives. How we handle it will differ. We do still have choices. I think you are handling things with great courage and strength. But remember to nurture your own needs too. It must be incredibly hard to get some rest and space with such youngs ones. Are there any friends or family close by that can give you some respite?

I'm glad you are still posting Hollie - you have a gang here that gets how you feel (((hugs)))

[Hollie220423]

Thanks KayDee, you are so right I wanted to say WE did not make this decision. But knew it would blow up so I merely end back to him and said you have decided to keep the ball rolling with everything - and as your wife who said I would support you in your decisions this is no different. I don’t agree but it’s what he wanted.

So bloody odd!!

[Treasur]

It's all fluff and no stuff.

Have to say I agree that I don’t see loving behaviours either. I see selfishness, self pity, spite, maybe neediness, manipulation.

In my world, people who love me - even people who like me actually - don’t threaten me or intentionally hurt me.
Idk your own FOO history, but it might be worth considering what love looks like to you and why.
And if you could imagine any circumstance in an infinite universe where you would treat your very small children and a baby as he is doing. If not, that tells you at a basic level that, put simply, his version of love - whatever it is - is not the same as your version.

His words seem to me to be about control or self pity and rather patronising.
His actions seem to me to be about profound self-centredness and lack of protective care.
And of course, practically speaking, he left you all, has an ow, had a tantrum and did not show care about yhe birth of your baby and is not a present reliable parent. I’m so sorry, bc that truly sucks to say and hear, but it is factually true, isn’t it?
And now he has filed.
Depression or not, that’s a significant choice imho that changes the landscape and changes your obligations towards him.

You have time to figure out what you want to do with any conclusions you reach.
I’m glad that you have a couple of splendid male posters’ thoughts too so you can see that it isn’t just a female perspective on a man that does this to a pregnant wife.

My advice fwiw is that it will be easier for you to think about what is best for you and the kids if you spend less time interacting with him….it keeps your own mental decks clear, if that makes sense. I understand that this might seem difficult at first but it is possible. As ready says, when he comes over on Wednesdays, say hello, hand over the kids and get yourself busy elsewhere or doing something else. lol, you could see it as free laundry time even bc I bet you have a ton of laundry with so many small kids! Or make it your regular grocery shopping hour bc, as you know, trailing small kids round a supermarket is not a joy 

I don’t know if you have taken legal advice but you should.
If only bc it might help you evolve towards a new more formalised way to do visitation that does not mean it happening in your house or under your nose. I can see that you are already exploring that with the overnights etc….good, your home is no longer HIS home. I’d just ignore the ‘miss my family’ texts bc it is pointless BS and not what his actions show. Blah, blah, blah.

Imho don’t let him ‘lead’ anything important wrt your life and home. Partly bc he’s an a$$hat who does not deserve to lead anything more than his own poop. Mostly bc the reality of divorce means two separate households. Good on you for going out for a drive.

Learn to inform not ask, or to ask but not expect.
Build a back up support system for the future when the kids are with you that does not require him except in a life threatening emergency.
Start seeing yourself as a single parent for most of the time and experiment with ways to do that, hard as it is.
Learn to use good solid boundaries on what is his business in your life and what is not as an ex-husband and non resident parent. Bc I suspect he won’t. As KayDee says there is no We in this. And not much We after the divorce he chose, even as parents. There is Me plus kids and You plus kids with a tiny bit of the Venn diagram intersecting. His choice. And to be fair a legal divorce probably makes that easier to see in practice. But I’d start treating him like an ex-husband now already. His opinion of your redecoration? Blah blah, not his house. Or wanting to spend more time at YOUR home? Blah blah, he shouldn’t have left then, not your problem to make better.
And don’t trip yourself into mentally giving him father of the year ‘b!tc# cookies’ for doing the bare minimum parenting either.

If you're lucky, you can Co-parent to some degree, unless he’s a complete f**kwit, but the reality is I imagine that you will be the primary parent and you and your kids will build a new kind of family where he pops up occasionally to be Disney Dad for a couple of days. And if you are feeling a bit jaded lol, take some comfort in the fact that ow is going to find that four small kids occasionally being around rather squeezes the juice out of those romantic moments  (although is it ok if I hate her a bit on your behalf? You have to be a special PoS as a woman to do what she’s done with small kids and a baby involved imho)

You are doing so well, even if you think you are not.
Let it unfold and keep going.
And let yourself slowly begin to see and try out different ways of living that please you. I suspect - although it might not feel like it right now - that you may find you have a lighter load having just four kids rather than the extra large demanding fifth one too!

And tbh, if he is using divorce as a threat to try to put you back in whatever box he is trying to keep you in, the easiest way to neutralise that threat is to be less afraid of divorce. Getting more information can help you see the possible benefits as well as the disadvantages, or at least help you accept it as a possibility that may be beyond your control, and that you will survive it if it does. Like looking at the bogey man under the bed lol. So you can reach a point where the threat does not work anymore and you can say something like ‘I’m sorry you feel that way and that wouldn’t be my first choice, but if that’s what you want to do, fill your boots….let me know the contact details for your lawyer and I’ll pass them on to my lawyer’. And then walk away. Sounds like that is about where you are?

Put simply, it is not your job to unleash punishment for his actions but it is absolutely not your job to protect him from the entirely predictable consequences of his own actions either. Your h is firing you as his wife and life team….so it’s ok to lay down those responsibilities and let him figure out how to deal with his own consequences without your involvement. Or not. Let him take his sadz elsewhere. Tbh that is what detachment really means, just takes a bit of time to get there….you don’t wish him ill, you just reach a point of shrugging your shoulders. And let him shove his well dones or opinions about your life now where the sun don’t shine bc divorcd means that’s no longer his job either, grrr.

Try not to be too scared about divorce. There’s no shame in it, or if there is, it isn’t your shame to carry. No one can clap one-handed 
None of us here wanted it, but we have survived regardless. There is a good peaceful life to be found on the other side of this, even if it turns out to be a different one than you’d planned.
And being married to someone who behaves like these folks behave is not a delightful walk in the park either, is it?

[KayDee]

Yes, the odd thing is, he is a grown arse man acting like a teenager. He wishes he handled things differently???  Then handle things differently now. It's a kind of arrogant and stupid statement all rolled into one. As if this was him making some small faux pas, not blowing everything up by abandoning his entire family - and himself, BTW.  I am likely getting irate on your behalf  and perhaps on behalf of so many of us here on the forum, because we have all had this kind of nonsense thrown at us. Hard not to read into it - is he confused, depressed, mad, under the spell of a wicked temptress? The more boring version is that his limited coping strategies failed him and his he deployed Maladaptive Coping Strategy 101 - run away. I guess we all have to accept their actions, but maybe mull over the 'support' part in your narrative. When I get these kind of emotional twister comments from my H, I don't respond to them at all. I just keep to the practical. Until he stops blaming you (which he is doing BTW, when he makes you part of the WE that violently ripped everything apart), it might be a better strategy. Just a thought.

[Treasur]

Yeah, as KayDee says, we are a bit angry on your behalf lol.
You may not have reached your angry stage yet, and if you do, don’t worry, it’s a stage and it passes. But sometimes we are like a huddle of aunties and uncles who can see what you can’t yet perhaps, and want to punch his nose hard