[UrsaMajor]

Maybe I missed it in previous posts but I have to ask: Is OW still in the picture? The fact that he comes and goes as he wishes is a red flag for me but that is just my take on things.
From way over here in the cheap seats, he's sitting on the fence and enjoying his cake... He has his family  and he has whatever it is he has when he is not with you all...

Of course, I am a bit jaded/cynical too so take it with a few grains of salt......

[Treasur]

Most of us vets who have been here a while and read a lot of stories are a bit more cynical, I think, bc we see patterns that look familiar. Whereas, for you, this is your life and you’re in it and it’s more particular.

I agree with UM but I think the real issue tbh is what your own instinct is saying. One can speculate endlessly about why these folks do what they do - usually the answer is some version of ‘bc it works for me at the moment’. What might or might not work for you is rarely in the mix imho - one is a kind of appliance really.

So the real question is not why/what he’s doing but if it is acceptable to you as a way to live. If it is on balance, you’ll probably keep on the same path. If it isn’t on balance, then you’ll change your path and decide to say No, Not Like This and Not Until. Not to effect his behaviour, but to take more control over what you allow to come through your life door. And to ask yourself the question about what YOU are getting right now from this relationship as it is? Which often leads us to some squirmy realisations that are not easy either.

Imho - and it’s normal and common for LBS - that usually takes some kind of internal shift to believing that you are neither the problem nor the solution. And that can be a bit of a painful shift so many of us try to avoid it.

So, what do you feel you need most right now?

[xyzcf]

I am really trying to detach.  It is really hard with the coming and going.  Only I can know when I'm done, and part of me wants to stop with this because I am afraid it won't end and I need to let myself heal.  However, another part of me is just not ready to let go, but am frustrated at that fact.  It makes me want to shake things up.  It seems like this should be easier by now.

Some MLCers are like your husband. They leave all their possessions with you, go on vacations as a family, send pictures of family homes, not remember things that he talked to you about..all very much a part of their crisis.

It takes a very long time to get "easier". Many feel that the best way to detach is to limit contact or go no contact while other LBSers have always continued to have some contact with their spouses. In the end, we get to choose.

For myself, I think because I feel that his crisis is something that was unavoidable and not in his control, and the weirdness of it all, the abrupt and 180 degree changes in him, allowed me to want to be there for him should he need it...I also didn't want to dread if I had to encounter him or be upset by his existence, to heal and be able to be in his presence so that it does not shake me.

Over time (and it took a long time but I am glad I went this route) he remains an important part of our family and for that, I am grateful.

 

I haven't seen any monster in almost 9 months.  In fact, he often sings my praises.

MLC is not about us or our marriage. They may leave us and we take that personally and it creates a huge wound in us, the betrayal, the abandonment, the rejection but really their crisis is something beyond the bonds of marriage...not all of them monster, certainly not all of them "hate" us and for many, once they get through their crisis, they will acknowledge to others and possibly even to us, that they never stopped loving us.

You go about building a life of your own.....live as though he is never coming back. Set boundaries if that feels comfortable to you. I believe acceptance of what is is more helpful than "detach"...for I see the word "detach" as trying to force me into something that doesn't fit...he was in my life for 35 years and will always remain important to me but I accept that he doesn't want than anymore...but he still wants a connection and I am willing to allow that.

My own view.

Create a life that is pleasing for you.....look after your family and find peace in knowing that you listen to your own inner self to make choices that are best for  you and your family.

[Happylight]

Maybe I missed it in previous posts but I have to ask: Is OW still in the picture? The fact that he comes and goes as he wishes is a red flag for me but that is just my take on things.
From way over here in the cheap seats, he's sitting on the fence and enjoying his cake... He has his family  and he has whatever it is he has when he is not with you all...

I honestly don't know --my gut was saying that she was gone for a while--but in the last couple months I am not as sure.   I don't know a ton and he mostly would never even acknowledge the relationship, but I do know from snooping that she had two young children and neither father was around--honestly I think it was probably one of those situations where he became friends with her (she worked where he got his hair cut), and didn't expect it to turn into anything else because she was pregnant at the time.  It could be someone new I guess.   He monstered at me and villainized me pretty frequently for about 10 or 11 months.  He accused me a lot of cheating on him.  That stopped after a period where we had very minimal contact which was about 8 months ago. 

[Happylight]

So the real question is not why/what he’s doing but if it is acceptable to you as a way to live. If it is on balance, you’ll probably keep on the same path. If it isn’t on balance, then you’ll change your path and decide to say No, Not Like This and Not Until. Not to effect his behaviour, but to take more control over what you allow to come through your life door. And to ask yourself the question about what YOU are getting right now from this relationship as it is? Which often leads us to some squirmy realisations that are not easy either.

Imho - and it’s normal and common for LBS - that usually takes some kind of internal shift to believing that you are neither the problem nor the solution. And that can be a bit of a painful shift so many of us try to avoid it.

So, what do you feel you need most right now?

I have reached the point where I realize I am not the problem or the solution.  However, I think a lot of my kids.  This has been hard, but they have no knowledge of anything outside knowing that we had a few arguments and that he isn't at the house all the time.  A divorce would be another hit for them.  Also, if I am really honest, it would feel like I quit or gave up (although it may not be accurate), is not something I do not do easily at all.  I am a person that commits to things and sticks with them--jobs, volunteering, showing up for things in general. 

I am working on going more dim even when he's around.  I am trying to step away from the things that I just do out of habit for him (like making him a plate to take for his lunch with leftovers).  I am trying to only respond to texts that absolutely need my response.  I have always tried to be kind and welcoming and lead by example--treat him in the way that I want to be treated, but I am really trying to take a step back.  I am still trying to avoid the 4 Horsemen in interactions--I have a strong tendency to be a smartass and sarcastic.  I have a friend that is Ok with me texting her every time I am thinking about texting him. 

The thing is, in terms of what I need--he can't provide for me.  I would like to have consistent companionship and dependability.   I am quite capable of handling most things myself, and he has continued to contribute financially (I think being a provider is very important to him).  I have always worked, but he does make about twice what I do, and provides insurance for all which is huge.  I have always said that I would not divorce.  If he wants a divorce, he would have to get one, but now he seems to be ok with this. 

I have seen more flares with anger and irritation in the last few weeks than I had seen in a while, but I have also seen more of an effort to walk them back or admit that he is wrong than he EVER had before.  Despite what ever else is going on, I have seen some positive changes to things that have been negatives in his behavior for many years.  I have make a concerted effort in last several months to not ask anything that might make him feel like he has to lie.  So, I just don't ask anything most of the time.  However, he will ask where I am if not home.

[Happylight]

It takes a very long time to get "easier". Many feel that the best way to detach is to limit contact or go no contact while other LBSers have always continued to have some contact with their spouses. In the end, we get to choose.

For myself, I think because I feel that his crisis is something that was unavoidable and not in his control, and the weirdness of it all, the abrupt and 180 degree changes in him, allowed me to want to be there for him should he need it...I also didn't want to dread if I had to encounter him or be upset by his existence, to heal and be able to be in his presence so that it does not shake me.

Over time (and it took a long time but I am glad I went this route) he remains an important part of our family and for that, I am grateful

MLC is not about us or our marriage. They may leave us and we take that personally and it creates a huge wound in us, the betrayal, the abandonment, the rejection but really their crisis is something beyond the bonds of marriage...not all of them monster, certainly not all of them "hate" us and for many, once they get through their crisis, they will acknowledge to others and possibly even to us, that they never stopped loving us.

You go about building a life of your own.....live as though he is never coming back. Set boundaries if that feels comfortable to you. I believe acceptance of what is is more helpful than "detach"...for I see the word "detach" as trying to force me into something that doesn't fit...he was in my life for 35 years and will always remain important to me but I accept that he doesn't want than anymore...but he still wants a connection and I am willing to allow that.

My own view.

Create a life that is pleasing for you.....look after your family and find peace in knowing that you listen to your own inner self to make choices that are best for  you and your family.

I am working on my own choices, and I don't want our relationship to be acrimonious.  He has acknowledged that he loves me.  I think that is part of what is making his current behavior difficult.  Although it was hard when he was monstering and I was the villian and he was busy rewriting history etc, his behavior made sense.  The staying away and justification for things that he was doing made sense (I mean a kind of twisted sense since it wasn't based on fact etc, but if I was awful it made sense that he wouldn't want to be with me).  Now, he has made it very clear that I am not awful--that I am beautiful, amazing, a fantastic mother, an angel, and a badass.  That makes less sense to me.  I know MLCers don't make any sense at all, so I guess that it is ridiculous that I should try, but it is just part of my basic makeup to analyze patterns and the psychology of things. 

He has hinted at some childhood trauma that was not disclosed for many years, so I do have some sympathy.  I want my children to have their father, and what I am doing now seems to be the best way to have him in their lives more.  It may be based on his whims or whatnot, but I worry that if he can't come when he wants, they may seen him less.  I say nothing negative about him to the kids.  I try to show compassion and empathy.   I know that I can't control their relationship with him and it is not my responsibility, but I also want to do everything I can to make it easier for them to maintain a good relationship with their father.

We keep on going with the day to day--I just need to work on not worrying about what he has planned and just do what I want.  Obviously, if he wanted to make sure he saw me, he would communicate more.

[xyzcf]

I want my children to have their father, and what I am doing now seems to be the best way to have him in their lives more.  It may be based on his whims or whatnot, but I worry that if he can't come when he wants, they may seen him less.  I say nothing negative about him to the kids.  I try to show compassion and empathy.   I know that I can't control their relationship with him and it is not my responsibility, but I also want to do everything I can to make it easier for them to maintain a good relationship with their father.

In what you have wrote, you can see the things do not add up...many here have tried to understand their behavior and actions...Mermaid researched a great deal about the pathology of their crisis. Others too and there were many threads devoted to the theories of what caused our loved ones to change so drastically.

It doesn't matter how old the children are. They are also traumatized by the loss of the father/mother they knew.

One of the many resources that address this is Leila Miller's Primal Loss. The Now Adult Children of Divorce Speak.

"Despite vastly different circumstances and details, the similarities in their testimonies are striking; as the reader will discover, the death of a child's family impacts the human heart in universal ways."

So we face our own pain and also see the pain in our children because their MLC parent doesn't make sense to them either.

It doesn't always happen, some MLCers walk away and there isn't any opportunity to save the remnants of the family, but...the LBSer can make a difference in creating a "safe" environment for the children to continue to have a relationship with their MLC parent.

I work with neglected and abused children. Best practices try to maintain family ties. Sometimes that means supervised visits with the parents when their are safety issues, neglectful and abusive parents are given many chances, many therapeutic interventions and support to enable the children to continue to see their parents, even those who are incarcerated. There are a great deal of resources provided, caseworkers, judges, guardian ad litem, therapists, CASA advocates and others doing everything we can to make this work.

So, I ask, families that are in crisis, like ours are....assisting our children to maintain a relationship with their MLC parent falls on us. And it's hard because we are very very hurt too.

You are doing well by not saying negative things about him, by showing him empathy and compassion for you are teaching your children the realities...that sometimes a parent stops being a parent...perhaps because they are physically or mentally sick and at this point in time, they cannot be the parent they should be.

But there is hope. It is never too late to mend the damage that was done by their crisis.

My daughter was old enough to see that something had changed drastically in her father but she was angry and would have turned her back on him. She and I worked through this, ultimately it was her decision but I helped support her, and opened my home to to him when we could be together as a family.

I think I wrote this else where recently, his divorce ended our marriage, it did not end our family.

Over the years, he has started contacting her more and spending more time with her.....I am grateful when I see them chatting and laughing together and I know this is best for her and also for him.

This would not have happened if I had shut him totally out of my life and my home. But that too was my choice and it was the right choice for my family.

[Happylight]

It doesn't matter how old the children are. They are also traumatized by the loss of the father/mother they knew.

One of the many resources that address this is Leila Miller's Primal Loss. The Now Adult Children of Divorce Speak.

"Despite vastly different circumstances and details, the similarities in their testimonies are striking; as the reader will discover, the death of a child's family impacts the human heart in universal ways."

Thank you for this post.  It did help.  I am also a big believer that God can put direction in front of us in interesting ways.  I went to go look for the book you referenced above.  I found a book by the same author called, Impossible Marriages, Redeemed.  It has stories of marriages that were redeemed. The author is Catholic and it is big on the Catholic faith (which is actually how I was raised although I don't currently practice).  However, in the forward it talks about for better or for worse, and how at its worst, the marriage can become your cross to bear.  I know that not everybody feels the same on this topic, but for me, it was a message and a reminder to carry on.  That's what I heard when I stumbled across this book at a time I was losing hope. 

In the past week, I have continued being kind.  He was distant last week a bit, and away for the weekend.  He has been at the house the last 3 nights, and I have noticed that he is not drinking.  This is a guy that was drinking large amounts at what I believe was the height of replay.  I had seen more moderation in months past, but he had still been drinking several drinks every day.  I have not said anything or asked about it.  I'm not sure if I should.  I guess it is a good thing? 

[xyzcf]

My faith became more important after BD, even though it's always been there. It is what keeps me grounded and also reflects how I live my life and how I treat my husband.

"Love one another as I have loved you" is central to Christ's commandments and further exploration is to love even those who hate you, who hurt you....a tall order for sure.....yet, this has allowed me to continue to be the same person on my interior as I was before BD.

Hard to trust God's plans when I wanted so much to be a married woman.

I once read about if you think of a tapestry, and you are looking at in from the underneath, it is pretty messy with strings and knots  but if you turn it over, there is a beautiful picture on the top side.

I found Rejoice Ministries a great help in allowing me to see this crisis from a different world view than what the world tells us. There are daily devotionals that are scripture based and a very strong belief in the power of prayer.

Many MLCers will engage in addicted behavior, drinking, gambling, drugs, affairs.....it's an attempt to fill the emptiness and the void that they are experiencing. If he is drinking less, it is possible that he is recognizing that his drinking is a problem.

Al-Anon is a very good place for people who are dealing with aa loved one who has an addiction.

I too have always shown kindness and acceptance to my husband. Things are more peaceful between us and we have family times together...vacations and holidays like Christmas and somehow, as dysfunctional as this seems to the outside world...it works for us.

[Happylight]

It's been a while since I posted.  The back-and-forth roller coaster continues.  It has been a long time since I pushed at all regarding our situation.  A few weeks ago, I did.  He became upset, restated some of the vilification/blaming points, and said that maybe we should make our situation more formal.  I did confront him about how he says he is here for the kids, but he will be here and then nobody knows when he will show up again.  Despite saying he wanted out, he stayed that night and stayed every night for a week.  He seems very fatigued and somewhat withdrawn.  He is also doing stuff around the house that needs to be done.  A toilet, a dripping faucet...things that have been annoying and have been issues for a while.  He is all over the place--he asks me on a date, then he cancels.  The last couple of days he has been in and out of the house a couple of times a day.  I sense that he is restless.    He leaves the house, but messages.  He goes out of town for a weekend and seems very affectionate when he returns.  I feel like he is fighting within himself.

He is so confusing, but it does seem he's conflicted.  I am conflicted as well.  However, God is still showing up for me.  A week ago, I was praying that I was so tired, and I needed a sign to hold on and keep going.  Within a couple of hours, a coworker emailed me a song with the lyrics: "Sometimes the only way through it as a Hallelujah, sometimes the only thing to do is to give it all to ya." I feel like this was the sign I asked for--keep hanging on.  But it is frustrating.

I think I am doing better with balancing my emotions, but it has been so long now, I am just tired and struggling to keep going with everything.  I am also starting to struggle with some hormonal changes, and those are weighing me down as well.  I just feel frozen.  I have done many things at home, but I feel like I am just stuck and can't move on with my life.  I feel like time is frozen for the waiting.  He still has taken no actions to actually move on.  I think that he is mentally struggling with how he can possibly love me, and have treated me like he did.  He also can't back out of what he said he wanted because that means that what he has done was wrong.  I am committed to my marriage.  As long as I am married, I will maintain my marriage and try to be the light to lead him back.  He has made no move to end our marriage.  I said for better or worse, and lots of people say that, and they mean it, until they don't.   At some point, I believe that he will come out of this MLC, and make some kind of move.  He doesn't seem to really want to end our marriage though.  He has had ample time and opportunity.   When he was gone, he messaged me to check in about kids, but he messaged me instead of messaging them directly. 

He doesn't seem to be in the manic replay phase that he was since around the fall of 2021 before the bomb drop (first one October 22) until about 10 months ago.  Since then, his energy level seems to have dropped dramatically, he quit working out.  He is still drinking, but he seems to be working to moderate a lot more.   He has made some other changes, like cutting back on cursing.  However,  I still sense some anger below the surface.  I know that only he can come through it, and it will take time.  I do struggle to keep the snarky responses, irritability, and restlessness at bay.