[WHY]

I am convinced my MLCer has developed delusional disorder as a coping mechanism to avoid her depression.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/9599-delusional-disorder#:~:text=Delusional%20disorder%20is%20a%20type,persecutory%2C%20jealous%20and%20grandiose%20types.

What are the types of delusional disorder?

There are different types of delusional disorder, which are determined based on the main theme of the delusions the person experiences. The types of delusional disorder include:

Erotomanic: People with this type of delusional disorder believe that another person, often someone important or famous, is in love with them. They may attempt to contact the person of the delusion and engage in stalking behavior.

*Having an at home wallower with fantasy alienator, need I say more....  Her limerance started 2.5 years ago and is still going strong.....  Its insane. 

Grandiose: People with this type of delusional disorder have an overinflated sense of self-worth, power, knowledge or identity. They may believe they have a great talent or have made an important discovery.

*How many times have people here referred to their MLCer having "overinflated sense of self-worth" lol.  This was particularly prevalent in early replay, recently not so much, but its still there.

Jealous: People with this type of delusional disorder believe that their spouse or sexual partner is unfaithful without any concrete evidence.

*I see no signs of this.

Persecutory: People with this type of delusional disorder believe someone or something is mistreating, spying on or attempting to harm them (or someone close to them). People with this type of delusional disorder may make repeated complaints to legal authorities.

*RCR herself has a piece on her blog "life is a pity party" ha.  Poor me poor me!  My LBS is out to get me.  My LBS has ruined my life.  It's all my LBSs fault!  The paranoia I've seen is unreal and completely unjustified.

Somatic: People with this type of delusional disorder believe that they have a physical issue or medical problem, such as a parasite or a bad odor.

*I see no signs of this.

Mixed: People with this type of delusional disorder have two or more of the types of delusions listed above.

*Yip.

[KayDee]

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.3109/00048674.2010.551279
Depressive disorders were the most common psychiatric, comorbid disorders with DD (32.6%), followed by anxiety disorders (14.0%).

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S092493381601381X
Depression is a highly prevalent condition among patients with delusional disorder.

There could be some cognitive bias here - because what these articles are saying is that depression is commonly co-morbid to DD, but not the other way around. For instance, obesity likely has a high co-morbidity with heart disease, but that figure will be different  when looking at co-morbid conditions leading with heart disease. (example here, I am not a doctor  - there is the famous 'all roses are flowers' proposition)

[Treasur]

I am convinced my MLCer has developed delusional disorder as a coping mechanism to avoid her depression.

Ok, let’s say you’re right.
And so….?
What do you do with that knowledge, Why?

[Atari25]

However as Acorn states - staying attached to an idea creates anxiety and it is that anxiety that keeps people stuck. 

You are right on anxiety to some extent but not really for me. I don't feel like I'm stuck. I will discuss this more with my therapist this week.

The thing is - it makes sense to logical people.  MLCers are illogical.  If you have PTSD or have had some kind of trauma and it all comes to a head but your behaviour around the family remains consistent and true then therapy is often a good thing.

However, as you say your MLCer is deluded, therefore  the outcome of any therapy might make it worse for the loved ones.  The therapist can only work with what the client says about themselves.  And so there is the high risk that,even if the MLCer goes to therapy, (and very often they refuse because " there's nothing wrong with them!")  the outcome will have the opposite desired effect.

Well that is all possible, especially if she goes to a therapist that is incompetent or doesn't know much about MLC depression kind of disorders.

[WHY]

I am convinced my MLCer has developed delusional disorder as a coping mechanism to avoid her depression.

Ok, let’s say you’re right.
And so….?
What do you do with that knowledge, Why?

Nothing.  My stand is over.  But perhaps it can help others that follow.

Because MLC is such a soul destroying, life altering, traumatic experience for the LBS, that the human being in me feels an obligation to help others that may end up in the same shoes.  My hope is that in the decades to come, that perhaps we'll come to understand what causes this whole thing, and that it will somehow become treatable.

I think it's very important that collectively, members of this forum continue to share their ideas and experiences, so that our thinking can evolve with time.  Remember when everyone said the earth was flat?  Only through challenging existing assumptions, gathering new data, and thinking outside of the box, may we be able to get to the bottom of what the hell really happens to our MLCers. 

And it's equally important that new ideas, no matter how "out there", don't get dismissed because of what we believe now.  Heck they should be embraced and not stifled.  Didnt we burn people at the stake because they thought the earth was flat!!??  Yeah that was a boo boo. 

"If only we knew back then what we know now....." right?  Sure MLC has been studied since this 60s, but think about how technology has brought the entire planet together to be able to share their experiences and gather data.  This forum has only been around for ~10-15 years?  Imagine what we'll learn over 50 years. 

At least I hope so.  Because easing the suffering of others and stopping the destruction of families and the ripple effects on kids can only be a good thing.  I feel like it's our responsibility to try. 

[Songanddance]

Well that is all possible, especially if she goes to a therapist that is incompetent or doesn't know much about MLC depression kind of disorders.

Maybe - but I think you're doing therapists a disservice.  Having had therapy for 18 months - I can only say that  the therapist can only deal with what they're told by the client and they have no way of knowing if it is a "pack of lies."  I chose to be honest about myself and only focus on me and thank goodness I did.  Equally at no point did my T ever advise or make a comment about my marriage or my feelings about my M. She was only interested in me and helping me help myself. 

As  I said earlier - my H told his therapist in about yr 2 of his crisis that I was the most awful unloving wife and he couldn't be with me.  So his T eventually told him that he ought to make a decision about this.  He did - he stopped seeing the T, carried on living at home whilst continuing to see OW!   In hindsight that was projection about himself  - he had become the most awful unloving husband and I couldn't possibly want to be with him.

But the therapist cannot dig deep if the client doesn't let them.

[marvin4242]

At least I hope so.  Because easing the suffering of others and stopping the destruction of families and the ripple effects on kids can only be a good thing.  I feel like it's our responsibility to try.

Why, I think your thoughts are extremely commendable. And yes we all share ideas, experiences, and we have viewpoints, and not all of us agree of course. Different world views, different experiences, and obviously different spouses with MLC. Some of us have come to the conclusion that they were dealing with covert narcissists who hid themselves well until their MLC hit. Does that mean the narcissism caused it? No it means when they fractured they could no longer hide things. It would be easy to mistake cause and effect, and in fact it is one of the most important differentiations to figure out what is happening.

In my example I always knew my wife had borderline traits (you can look them up). That is NOT what caused her MLC. It impacted her life, and when she had a crises these traits became heightened, like anything else. So a professional with prior information would be able to differentiate that from diagnosing her with BPD. But lay people can not.

It is dangerous to diagnose anything about ourselves and our loved ones without true expert process. I have had the privilege of access to multiple very good therapists and have talked to them at length about my experience with my W. Some dismiss MLC out of hand because it is not a "diagnosable" condition. The other more experienced once's nod their head and one of the best immediately started describing what kind of behaviour she would expect to see (she was incredibly correct). Then we discussed all the underlying pressures and behaviours, and how none of them are the cause. Even if they were treated it would change nothing. Because most likely the cause started very early in childhood, and it was something that had been building in pressure, most likely it was contained or compensated for until it hit a crises point.

Once we are in crises we do change, and sure there may be neurochemical changes. But that doesn't mean much, it's more effect than cause. I have neurochemical changes when I am having a great week, that is not treatable. But someone with organic neurochemical balance issues needs to be treated because that is the cause not the effect.

I am not trying to convince you otherwise, just trying to share information that may be useful.

[Atari25]

Well that is all possible, especially if she goes to a therapist that is incompetent or doesn't know much about MLC depression kind of disorders.

Maybe - but I think you're doing therapists a disservice.  Having had therapy for 18 months - I can only say that  the therapist can only deal with what they're told by the client and they have no way of knowing if it is a "pack of lies."  I chose to be honest about myself and only focus on me and thank goodness I did.  Equally at no point did my T ever advise or make a comment about my marriage or my feelings about my M. She was only interested in me and helping me help myself. 

As  I said earlier - my H told his therapist in about yr 2 of his crisis that I was the most awful unloving wife and he couldn't be with me.  So his T eventually told him that he ought to make a decision about this.  He did - he stopped seeing the T, carried on living at home whilst continuing to see OW!   In hindsight that was projection about himself  - he had become the most awful unloving husband and I couldn't possibly want to be with him.

But the therapist cannot dig deep if the client doesn't let them.

I think that's true initially, mask is on and walls are up.

Eventually the walls do come down though IMO. The question is I suppose, can you get the MLC in for more than one visit?

[xyzcf]

No one can say for sure what causes MLC. There are many theories, many ideas. These have been expressed by posters throughout the years.

No one answer is correct.

I am better when I have some knowledge about a topic. It helps me to understand and allows me to realize that this is something real, and unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any way to turn the crisis into "normal" behavior. Until, in some cases, that happens "spontaneously" and we read that some MLCers are better than they were before their crisis. Other never seem to "come back" and once again, no reason why some do and others don't.

When people read information that they think might pertain to MLC, there is a thread to post it on.

The most current "Links, Blogs and articles to share" is found at:

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=12131.0

Over time, many people have shared information about things that struck them about MLC.

Accept that as individuals, we all have our own personal stories, belief systems and knowledge base concerning MLC.

As adults, we can read things that resonate with us and our situation, and by all means share this information.

What I find here, is arguing about whose research is right and whose is wrong. Judgement of those ideas we disagree with and a strong desire to "protect" other posters from ideas that others do not agree with.

Do any of us need to be defending our position, especially here.?

Is anyone here really more knowledgeable than another?

People comment on what their therapists have said...does that make them an authority? Especially since they most likely have never met our MLC spouse.And like in so many other professions, a different therapist will have a different point of view.

My thoughts as I read along...is it truly helpful to point out to people that they are wrong based upon, as Acorn has coined, a sample of one?

[marvin4242]

My thoughts as I read along...is it truly helpful to point out to people that they are wrong based upon, as Acorn has coined, a sample of one?

Xyzcf I am very curious, where do you see any poster trying to tell another one that they are "wrong?" Sharing information is not the same as telling someone they are wrong. But there are known things in any given field, everything is not just "opinion" and when it does come to expertise I personally prefer to listen to people who have deep knowledge in a field rather than a random person's opinion.

The web (not this website to be clear) is littered with opinion about MLC masquerading as fact. There are people who sell false hope (again to be clear I am NOT talking about this site). So yes, everyone's experience is absolutely valid, everyone's opinion is absolutely valid, no one that I see is trying to tell anyone else what to think or believe. But that does not translate to an idea that all views on MLC are the same, or that just because therapists may have slightly different takes on something that means nothing is known and its all opinion.