[Songanddance]

My main focus is to get her into therapy and my kids understand that this is the only way to get their mom back even if she doesn't ever come back to me. Still hasn't happened.

Atari
It will in all honesty serve little purpose.  The MLCer will only tell the therapist their point of view and their experience and more relevantly they will re- write history.  Or they will say little and waste time and money saying nothing at all.
Seeing a therapist is a personal decision and it has to be an honest, deep rooted need to be prepared to be exposed and to search your true self. 

I know - I saw one for 18 months and 6 months after BD.   H also saw a therapist who told him that I was clearly not a supportive wife and that if he was happier with OW then that is what he should pursue.   H admitted that he told his T that I had broken the marriage and that I was the one causing the issues and that he was the one who was the victim!   
So if I were such a terrible person - why did he refuse to leave the home and why did he cling like a major clinger and equally why did he tell me that OW was dysfunctional and quite simply the worst person he had ever known but he "lurved " her.

See what I'm getting at?  You asking your wife to go to therapy will not produce the results you seek - and it could make it worse.

Oh and here's the difference 11 years on....H goes to a psychiatrist for issues which he thinks are post stroke but the psychiatrist tells him that his brain fog is also due to the break up of his marriage which he was responsible for amongst many other things.  H has already apologised many times for destroying our marriage before he saw the psychiatrist but the psychiatrist's words stunned him and he rang me to apologise again for being a complete and utter **** throughout his crisis.

Now he's ready to listen - then he wasn't. 

[Acorn]

This thread led me to reflect on my early LBS days and one of the lessons I have learned and continue to learn — the importance of healthy detachment when appropriate.

……

It is my view that dwelling in the land of speculations and assumptions can lead to an unhealthy state of obsession with another person and/or relationship, creating an environment where the line between reality and fantasy becomes blurred.  The following quote comes to mind:

“He wove intricate conjectures around her, threaded with contrived casual links that quickly expanded into vast nets of suppositions, which he would unspin and weave again in different patterns.”  — excerpt from ‘Trust’ by Herman Diaz

It is perfectly understandable when the above mentioned ‘blurring’ occurs in the early days after BD.  However, after a period of grace to oneself, moving forward and living each day well is a choice we intentionally should and need to make, I suggest, because ‘today’ never comes back.  This is where focus on one’s own inner self and healthy detachment comes in. 

I suggest that healthy detachment is achievable  and many have done it — through investigating and learning what it means to be healthily detached, and consistently incorporating ‘how to detach’ into everyday life until a calm state of ‘detached with love’ becomes the norm.

In the context of this post, my reference to ‘detachment’ is not about the natural dialling down of the pain level that comes with the passage of time which I describe as a passive form of detachment.   Detachment, as I am referring to, is intentional; it takes much focus and work, and is attainable, as illustrated by many LBSs who have gone before me.

In short, healthy detachment involves:

- Eyes off your spouse, eyes on you. 
- Be curious and honest about yourself.
- You can only inhabit your own mind and not your partner's. 

I hope the following quote and link may whet your appetite for more information on healthy detachment.

“Detachment can best be described as a process of letting go. It allows you to release difficult situations and, sometimes, difficult people. By detaching from past experiences and future expectations, you can look at your relationships, both personal and professional, more objectively, which gives you greater clarity.

Holding on to an idea just because you have become attached to it creates anxiety. Once you detach from the desired outcome, you can stop worrying about it. The truth is that most attachment is about control, and control is an illusion. So it’s better to get on with your life, even when you don’t get exactly what you want.

When you release your desire for control over the lives of others, it sets everyone free. Those endless hours of frustration can be turned into fruitful days of creativity.

Detaching is not always easy. You must learn that even when things go differently from how you think they should, it’s okay. If you are in pain over a difference of opinion, it helps to understand why you want what you want in the first place. If your motivation is one of selfishness rather than one of balance, you may need to take another look at the situation.” — Dr. Goldsmith, Psychology Today

AND

https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/how-to-detach-from-someone

Wishing you a great weekend. 
((((HUGS))))

[Nas]

I absolutely love that quote from Trust (great book). I’ve said before that the way that people see us is usually a function of what they need us to be. I said it in the context of my own need to *be seen* rather than created or invented, but It’s been equally or more important to me in my nonattachment to consider whether I am actually seeing others, rather than creating or inventing them. Usually, if we really are honest with ourselves, we can dig to the root of our opinion about a person or our assessment of an interaction and realize that it’s coming from us and it becomes an opportunity to know ourselves better. (that’s not to say that others can’t ever hurt us, or that we alone own responsibility for things that happen, but it makes a huge difference in the way that we confront things and respond.)

I think also, sometimes we can become a little blind to ourselves when assigning MLC as the cause of the behavior(s) of another that we either can’t explain or can’t accept because it’s hurtful. If the cause is something diagnosable and treatable, the pain is easier to deal with because we can conceive of an end to it. But it actually keeps us more attached to the situation. It prolongs the pain.

[Atari25]

Atari,

I'd recommend taking your focus off of getting your wife into therapy. These folks can take a long time (sometimes many many years) before they finally start to realise that something might be off internally  and even then many do nothing to help themselves out of the hole they've dug.  Getting into therapy is a big step for anyone - because if it is to be effective you have to really open yourself up and start to be introspective. Do you honestly think that your wife is in that head space right now?
If you did persuade her to get some help then it's likely that she'd wear the same mask with the therapist - and even blame / accuse you or you daughters for making her go.

Put your focus on your daughters and yourself - don't waste emotional energy on something that is at best, likely to be ineffective, and at worst could cause a wider rift between members of your family.

I was told by my therapist that if I could get her in to a therapist it would likely shorten the MLC or whatever she is going through. She has seemed more open to the idea when talking to my daughter. I realize it's a long haul and no guarantee but I feel like it gives me hope. Maybe I'm fooling myself, I don't know.

[Atari25]

Atari
It will in all honesty serve little purpose.  The MLCer will only tell the therapist their point of view and their experience and more relevantly they will re- write history.  Or they will say little and waste time and money saying nothing at all.
Seeing a therapist is a personal decision and it has to be an honest, deep rooted need to be prepared to be exposed and to search your true self.

She has said she is open to therapy to my daughter and my work insurance covers up to $5000 of therapy so I don't have a lot to loose if she will go.

I am very focused on being strong for my kids. Maybe its fantasy that she goes but I know the car accident she had scared her and maybe it's a turning point. Maybe not. I'm looking for something to cling on.

[marvin4242]

I realize it's a long haul and no guarantee but I feel like it gives me hope. Maybe I'm fooling myself, I don't know.

I'm looking for something to cling on.

I am so sorry, I can sense that this is all very very hard. And I am in no way trying to remove hope or make things harder, but I do have a question. Can you state what hope you are holding on to and what are you clinging onto? I don't mean to be simplistic, I assume you are hoping that things will go back to the way they were. The reason I am asking is more so maybe you can try to be more specific about what is happening, what you would like to see would happen next, and from what you have seen and experienced how likely it is.

Because I think we all need hope and we need to hold on to something, the important question may be what exactly is most likely to help us as we move forward rather than keep us in a loop of pain and disappointment.

[Atari25]

I realize it's a long haul and no guarantee but I feel like it gives me hope. Maybe I'm fooling myself, I don't know.

I'm looking for something to cling on.

I am so sorry, I can sense that this is all very very hard. And I am in no way trying to remove hope or make things harder, but I do have a question. Can you state what hope you are holding on to and what are you clinging onto? I don't mean to be simplistic, I assume you are hoping that things will go back to the way they were. The reason I am asking is more so maybe you can try to be more specific about what is happening, what you would like to see would happen next, and from what you have seen and experienced how likely it is.

Because I think we all need hope and we need to hold on to something, the important question may be what exactly is most likely to help us as we move forward rather than keep us in a loop of pain and disappointment.

She will probably never be who she was I accept that but I want her to eventually get through what she is going through and come back. She loved me for 25 year and I know that love is still there.

Again no guarantee I know. I can't give up on her yet.

[FrenchHusband]

This thread led me to reflect on my early LBS days and one of the lessons I have learned and continue to learn — the importance of healthy detachment
[...]
In short, healthy detachment involves:

- Eyes off your spouse, eyes on you. 
- Be curious and honest about yourself.
- You can only inhabit your own mind and not your partner's. 

I hope the following quote and link may whet your appetite for more information on healthy detachment.

“Detachment can best be described as a process of letting go. It allows you to release difficult situations and, sometimes, difficult people. By detaching from past experiences and future expectations, you can look at your relationships, both personal and professional, more objectively, which gives you greater clarity.

Holding on to an idea just because you have become attached to it creates anxiety. Once you detach from the desired outcome, you can stop worrying about it. The truth is that most attachment is about control, and control is an illusion. So it’s better to get on with your life, even when you don’t get exactly what you want.

When you release your desire for control over the lives of others, it sets everyone free. Those endless hours of frustration can be turned into fruitful days of creativity.

Detaching is not always easy. You must learn that even when things go differently from how you think they should, it’s okay. If you are in pain over a difference of opinion, it helps to understand why you want what you want in the first place. If your motivation is one of selfishness rather than one of balance, you may need to take another look at the situation.” — Dr. Goldsmith, Psychology Today

Great post Acorn ! Thank you very much for your wise words !
After reading a lot of stories, I come to the conclusion that there is no clear way to predict the outcome. The odds are not very good, it is better to be aware of this fact. Even if we can keep hope, NO EXPECTATION is the best policy in healthy relationship. The sooner we live "as if our spouse won't come back", the better it is for us LBS, and IMHO for our spouses under MLC.

I was told by my therapist that if I could get her in to a therapist it would likely shorten the MLC or whatever she is going through. She has seemed more open to the idea when talking to my daughter. I realize it's a long haul and no guarantee but I feel like it gives me hope. Maybe I'm fooling myself, I don't know.

I have come to the conclusion that there is no way to shorten or decrease the MLC. The only influence we LBS can have on the MLC is negative, or neutral at best. As WHY writes, I think focussing on our spouses under MLC is a waste of time and only leads to delusion when our expectations are unmet. The LBS focussing on the LBS and the children is the right move IMHO.

[OffRoad]

I just think if people had happy endings.  They would come back to post and give people hope.  Even if 10 years had passed. 

The lack of happy stories leads me to believe there are few.

I'm late to this party but wanted to mention that I know of at least 3 recons that just decided to walk away from the forum because they didn't want anyone judging, didn't want to explain, didn't want any input on their situation at all. So there is a small percentage that do just recon and leave. You cannot assume that if someone doesn't post "We're back together and so happy" that it didn't happen. Hard for those who would like that information for sure, but everyone gets to choose for themselves.

[xyzcf]

Well said Offroad:

I'm late to this party but wanted to mention that I know of at least 3 recons that just decided to walk away from the forum because they didn't want anyone judging, didn't want to explain, didn't want any input on their situation at all. So there is a small percentage that do just recon and leave. You cannot assume that if someone doesn't post "We're back together and so happy" that it didn't happen. Hard for those who would like that information for sure, but everyone gets to choose for themselves.

I also know recons...HS is not necessary or needed as they grow in their lives, together again.