[PegSJ]

Sorry for not responding for a while, but the past two weeks have been difficult. My daughter turned 1 last week. It was a day with laughter and tears. Last sunday she visited my ex and OW for the first time. Pff, I find all this terribly difficult!

I notice that after a little more than a year of living on my own, I get more rest and that I sleep better again. But the questions keep running through my head throughout the day. My critical side doesn't really help either, because that side makes me still think that I could/should have done something different/better/more and that all this could perhaps have been prevented.

I'm so insecure when it comes to my children. I used to be sure of myself as a mother, but now I'm insecure as hell and terrified that I'm not good enough or not doing a good enough job. And… that they ultimately abandon me and go to my ex and OW, because everything is better/finer/nicer there. I miss my confident side and the feeling that what I share with my children is unconditional. It feels anything but that way! 'm so afraid that she will have a better relationship with my children.

How future-proof is their relationship? Stupid question, I know, because this is another question that no one really knows the answer to. I honestly wonder how their relationship can last. It is indeed built on deceit and lies and on the sorrow of me and my children. But… When does it go wrong? And, if things go wrong, what then?

I don't recognize him as a person anymore. I really thought he cared about me, our family, and our future together. He's never been like that. He never treated me badly. He was a bit selfish, but that was really all…

Indeed, I feel as if they have everything and I have nothing, that they have won and I have lost. Life with two children alone is not what I envisioned, but as long as they are with me, I am happy with what I have. The lonely feeling and intense sadness occur as soon as the children are with my ex and OW.

I receive help from two therapists. Every day I live in fear. For me it is not a question of if I will lose my children, but when. How do I deal with the time my children are with my ex? I think it's terrible and I'm so scared for the future.

[Treasur]

Tbh imho what you wrote about your fears sounds a lot like a pretty textbook post-trauma response. Which is not to belittle how real it feels, or parts of it that are based in current realities, but to encourage you that this is not the whole story and not as set in stone as your traumatised brain is telling you. I hope that one of your therapists has some understanding of how trauma affects our brains and bodies for a while; it is no failure of character on your part, more a kind of brain hiccup. And you might find it helpful to read up about how trauma affects us. I tend to call it Fear with a capital F as opposed to the normal kind of fears with a lower case f. And it sucks, I know.

If this is the case for you, your brain is going to be telling you stories that feel true but are not necessarily completely true. All or nothing stories. Doom just around the corner stories. And an almost paralysing level of self doubt. For me it was a bit like living with no skin in a world full of tigers around every corner.

But the right kind of therapist can help. There are things you can do that gently communicate to your survival brain that what it feels is not the whole truth. It does not always have to feel how it feels right now.

Again jmo, but there should be a special seat in hell for any spouse and ow who does this to a pregnant wife or one with very small children. It’s a horrific situation to create for someone like you to deal with and I am so sorry that you are having to navigate it. It is true that the legalities of separation/divorce mean that the departing parent does usually have rights to soend time with the kids. That might seem pretty unfair and like another loss, but usually the reality is that these kinds of folks are Disney parents….a few days a month at best.  Bc as you know, little kids can also be quite hard work.

I can’t recall from your story where you are in the legal process of setting up a custody/visitation arrangement? Have you taken legal advice about your fears of losing your kids? Bc it is very very rare that a mother of very small kids would do so unless they were unable or unwilling to take care of them. And that really doesn’t sound like it’s the case.

Still, it is true - and a $h!tety $h!te sandwich - that you are likely legally obliged to send your tiny ones off for some hours/days to a place and people you can’t trust. I’m so sorry, I can’t begin to imagine how awful that must be. But there are other LBS here who do, so keep posting about what concerns you most, Peg, and let other folks come along to share their tips and experience.

What I will say though is that your h and his ow are imho big sucky crappy humans - they are nothing special, and nothing they do will change the fact that YOU are your kids’ real - and probably only - committed sane parent. Imho the evidence for that is what you say about how you feel when you are just you and your kids, even though being a solo parent wasn’t what you planned. But your post-trauma brain feels that it knows what it’s like to have someone you trusted burn your metaphorical house to the ground so in its PoV it makes sense to fear even worse things coming. But just bc that bit of your brain sees it like that does NOT make it true. And little tricks like reminding you of the evidence of what kind of parent you are is a way to counterbalance that bit of your brain. Our survival brains are very good at feeling and telling us that’s the same as thinking but it isn’t….its a different bit of our brains that do the rational thinking stuff and post-trauma they usually need a bit of encouragement and cheering on.

[KayDee]

Indeed, I feel as if they have everything and I have nothing, that they have won and I have lost. Life with two children alone is not what I envisioned, but as long as they are with me, I am happy with what I have. The lonely feeling and intense sadness occur as soon as the children are with my ex and OW.

That kind of 'win' is like winning the 100 metres being shootingl the other runners dead with the starting pistol. What, in fact, they have 'won' is each other. Neither are people I'd like to know, as they seem utterly absorbed with their own needs. No one can put a time frame on this, but it is not a relationship built on healthy foundations. That is a fact. And we know what shaky foundation cause. Destablisation and/or collapse. But, maybe for now, and strange as this sounds, their relationship gives you energy and space to heal. The collapse can bring a lot of blow back and depending on what you want to do, you will need to be stronger to deal with that. Ultimately, we reap what we sow. In the end you will be the one with the most to prize.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Good morning!

. Last sunday she visited my ex and OW for the first time. Pff, I find all this terribly difficult!

I get the fear, but it is just that, fear. It's your mind messing with you.

My critical side doesn't really help either, because that side makes me still think that I could/should have done something different/better/more and that all this could perhaps have been prevented.

I did the same for years and thought if I had done y instead of x or put b before a. It just won't work because it is a shell game. My ex toyed with me for years. No matter what cup you pick, the ball isn't there. The same with your H. He controlled and manipulated the game. He may have told you that you didn't make him lunch. Of course had you made him lunch, he would have said, "Why did you make me lunch, you are so controlling." So stop playing the game as it only hurts you and your path to recovery. Remember, his statements are to justify his actions. Of course, he know your weak spots.

And… that they ultimately abandon me and go to my ex and OW, because everything is better/finer/nicer there. I miss my confident side and the feeling that what I share with my children is unconditional. It feels anything but that way! 'm so afraid that she will have a better relationship with my children.

Once again, unfounded fear. Even though they are young, they know who mom is. They know your smell, they know how you look, and they even hear your heartbeat. That bound won't be broken by two morons.

Let's do the math 48 days plus 21 is 69 days. That's 19% of a year. In the end, you run a home. They play house. Completely different and even your children will see the difference. As far as their coupling lasting or not lasting, not in your wheelhouse though statistically most don't make it. However, you can't focus on them as you have no control over them. Just to be fair, I am not very keen on your h. He asked you, pregnant with your second child, if abortion was on the table. Did you at least poke out one of his eyes? That would have been a justifiable reason for leaving you, but it would have been earned. With comments and an attitude like his, are you really thinking he became father of the year material?

I am glad that are getting help and continue to work on building your self confidence as a mother and as a good person. Bomb drop destroys are reality as we see things and it takes time to recover and get our systems back in place.

Just know you are doing a great job and we are here to support you!

(((Ready)))

[MadLuv]

You have a lot on your plate with small children. I think children at any age just makes this all so much more painful. I do believe that although you think they are winning they really aren’t.  Even if they can successfully in their life think what they are doing or have done is ok, well it just isn’t and I do believe karma is living with being who you have become.  If they can live happily after hurting you and the kids then what and who are they? No one that can offer anything to your life.

The sharing of kids is just not ever an easy thing. There are never a solution that can ease your mind on it and that I am so very sorry for. Of course you dont want OW having and part in raising your kids and neither of them deserve to have influence in their development. It’s just a devastating situation and with small kids it just is so much worse. Im so sorry

[Nas]

How future-proof is their relationship?

I found this question interesting in that, as you say, no one can ever really know what's going on with other people, but it's also the trap that those in affairs (and others) fall into, thinking that their relationship can be sustained through "love." No relationship is future-proof, and I would say it's a fair assumption to make that those who believe they are involved in some kind of divine love story are on far shakier ground and far more at risk of an ending than those who are intentional in their relationships. The thing with relationships is that we can enter them knowing our own intentions and how we feel about commitment, but there are many variables we can never, ever predict. We never know how our life, the life of our partner, or our combined life will unfold or change and how we or they will respond to anything that happens, on a day to day basis and over the long term.

I suppose in terms of "future proofing," LBS can only try to future proof against another BD of any kind by working on ourselves and understanding that nothing is guaranteed, but that we will be okay when things end, even when those endings cause us deep pain. Just spitballing on that.

I'm really sorry about the anxiety you feel in regards to the kids. My brother's marriage recently ended due to what appears to be his exW's MLCish crisis, and he has described some similar feelings when it comes to his children and the time spent with and without them. I can't imagine the extra layer of stress and uncertainty that's added by sharing children with a person in crisis, and I don't pretend to know how y'all do it so I don't have any advice, just sending you support.

[MomOfSteel]

I’m so sorry you are here but you’ve already gotten some wonderful advice from some very wise veterans.  I think many of us questioned if it was us, especially at first.  Let’s face it, when someone is blaming you for everything, it’s really hard to not internalize those messages.  I have a close friend also dealing with this garbage and one of the reasons her ex gave her as to why he cheated and left was that she couldn’t eat gluten.   ::)Also, regardless of anything you did, he chose to do the things he did.  You didn’t force him, it was a choice he made.  If you can find a good therapist, it might really help. 

As someone with kids a little older than yours, I can say you children eventually will see more clearly.  My ex is the stereotypical Disneyland dad who does the fun things.  I do the lame boring everyday things.  I was talking to my teenage son and asked him if he felt like we should go and do more fun things and expressed I feel like all the fun stuff they do with their dad.  He looked at me and said, “Mom, you are the one that takes care of us everyday.  We don’t have to do those things because you are the one that is there for us and helps us.” Even though kids like the shiny nice things, they will know who makes them feel valued and loved and accepted.  You are their safe space and their comfort.  Also, please cut yourself some slack.  What you have been through is extremely traumatic.  Betrayal leaves deep wounds and it takes time to heal.  Be patient with yourself. 

As the OW and the ex riding off into the sunset, it’s highly unlikely.  For the first while, mine seemed happy and like there was no regrets or consequences.  Now they have so many cracks it’s not funny and I’m pretty sure he’s worse to her than he ever was to me.  They fight and despite being engaged seem like they teeter on the edge of breaking up constantly.

[Songanddance]

As the OW and the ex riding off into the sunset, it’s highly unlikely.  For the first while, mine seemed happy and like there was no regrets or consequences.  Now they have so many cracks it’s not funny and I’m pretty sure he’s worse to her than he ever was to me.  They fight and despite being engaged seem like they teeter on the edge of breaking up constantly.

Whilst my H was in R with OW for 3.5 yrs, it was around the 6 month period  that he was describing her to me as dysfunctional. He said her kids were dysfunctional too but that he thought he could be the one to "fix" them.  It was at that point I realised that no matter what happened to us - that R would never last.  For despite not seeing H's decline into replay for what it was before BD (I used to be one that joked about MLC) I knew H well enough that if he was saying things like that then it would never last.  At this point I also had "helpful spies" because I was obssessed with knowing what,who,how, when etc about the affair and I was told repeatedly that they were seen squabbling and bickering constantly - something H and I didn't do. We argued but we argued big time not bickered or petty squabbling.  This helped re-inforce in my head that it wouldn't last and if it looked like it was going to - well then I would have to make a choice.

It dragged on for 3.5 yrs with H becoming more and more withdrawn from her until the last summer 2016 when he told me that he was going on holiday with her and her children but that he had been thinking of ways to not go.  My answer was just don't go - but he did - of course he did because clinging boomerangs get addicted and the lure is too difficult to avoid.
However something happened during that break because H stopped seeing her after that.

It was then another year before he started genuine touch and goes. 

Pegs - this is a long journey.  The affair may last months or years - this is a really hard pill to swallow.  All you can do is be the most resilient and resourceful person you know.   
None of us on here ever wanted to be telling our story but here we are and the advice is golden.  Keep posting, venting, sharing, we can help you navigate your way through this mess.

[PegSJ]

I completely understand and think it is good that there is contact between my children and their father, but I think it is unfair that I can spend less time with my children because of his choices and that OW is in the picture ánd does have time with my children at that moment. It just feels terrible. Actually, I don't want OW to have a part in my children's lives. I just want to take care of them myself. My children are always there when I'm free, so that doesn't help either. The entire contact arrangement is designed around my ex's work schedule. He only has the children when he is free himself.

We both have custody, but my ex only wanted visitation arrangements for every other weekend from saturday morning 10.00 to sunday evening 18.30 and 3 weeks of vacation per year. At this moment there is actually no need to be afraid of losing my children, but I still am because of all the comments and threats from my ex. I am able and willing to care for my children. There's nothing I love more than taking care of them. Since OW came into the picture, my ex has mainly focused on her and his own life. He used up his maternity leave of 4 or 5 weeks on himself, not on the children. He never calls in between and never asks me how the children are doing. Part of me is so afraid that my kids would rather be there, even though there are no signs that this is the case, but my ex is indeed the Disney parent. He only does fun things, almost always eats unhealthy, occasionally buys presents and goes on (mini) holidays when he has vacation with my son. Lots of things I would have liked to do as a family, which my ex also knows... But, now he does that with OW and my son, and, eventually also my daughter.

Dealing with my fears is the hardest thing of all for me at the moment, because it ensures that I am always in an alert state, as if there is danger. I don't know how to explain it better, but it feels like I feel my pockets many times throughout the day and at that moment I realise that I lost my keys, that moment of shock and the tension that comes with it. The stories playing in my head do indeed feel true, even though my ex isn't currently trying to change contacts with our children or anything like that (I think). The contact between us is calm, which was really different before. I don't get involved in anything, don't ask anything about "us" anymore and don't let my sadness be noticed or seen. I'm getting help from different sources, so I hope that will bring about a change soon. I really hope that it doesn't continue to feel the way it feels now, because then I honestly think the future is bleak.

Last weekend I saw on Instagram that my ex and OW were away for the weekend. The hotel room was extremely expensive and luxurious. It really makes me wonder why I wasn't good enough to do this kind of things, while to be honest I'm not really the type for this kind of expensive things. Not that he ever suggested doing this, so I think somewhere it mainly comes from her. Because of things like this, I think he has so much more fun and a nicer life than he had with me, let alone sexually. I feel like they are so happy together...

Their relationship indeed gives me space to grow and heal right now. If he had been at the door a while ago, I would have let him in without mercy. Now I still don't know what exactly I would do, but I feel stronger and I know that I deserve better than how I have been treated by him over the past (almost) two years. The stupid thing is that somewhere I would want my ex back, but somewhere I actually don't want it at all. He has treated me so badly and I also hate to see that our children are not his priority at all.

I keep having doubts about what I did wrong or not good enough to deserve this. My ex never indicated what I did wrong or not good enough, only that his feeling was gone and he didn't want to regret choosing this life when he was 50. Then I found out that he had an OW... So I have been filling in what I did wrong or not well enough for over a year and a half. Very tiring and there is no answer good enough... He knows my weak spots and has responded to them in other ways. He has crossed many boundaries. I know it's his choice, but I still feel such a sense of failure as a partner and such guilt as a mother. Our life was just ordinary, a “boring” family life. My ex has sometimes indicated that he doesn't know why he keeps feeling so attracted to her. But, they have now been in contact for a little over 2 years. They were intimate for the first time in june 2022. After that it was yes/no/yes/no with us until february 2023, when we officially broke up (after he dumped me 2 times already). He saw her regularly for the first few months and also stayed with her regularly, and they have been living together since the end of 2023. They do a lot of fun things, regularly go out for dinner, weekends away, on holiday. When I look at their lives now, our life together seemed plain and boring, to be honest. We did fun things, but not as often as they do and also less expensive. Since last month he also has a tattoo. He is going to get a tattoo-sleeve. He used to be anti-tattoo… His OW has a lot of tattoos… Why? Is it my fault he didn’t get any tattoos until now? Or, has he changed his opinion for her?

Next weekend is Father's Day. It feels so mixed, because I really don't think he is a committed and good father at the moment. He didn't do anything for Mother's Day, he didn’t even wish me a nice day. I ordered a mouse pad with a photo of the children. Not as an ex, but as a parent of our children. I just try to rise above it, even though I don't think he deserves to be in the spotlight.

It's very stupid of me to concern myself with their relationship. As an ex, I would like to see it destroyed, but as a mother, I hope for the most stable possible situation for the children. I just hope that he has or will have as much sadness as I have had and still have.

Thank you for being there for me! Thank you for hearing my story and the advice I receive from you!

[Nas]

I like your car keys analogy, it’s very descriptive. Living in that stress response state is so taxing on the mind and body. The fear is likely masking deeper emotions, which I think you start to tap into later in your post when you talk about wondering why you weren’t good enough. I am very hopeful that as you start to work through that, that stress response state will become less and less.

I know it’s very hard not to look at their relationship, especially so early on, and especially when your children are subjected to this other person. He is not with her because of who you are or even who she is. He’s with her because of who he is. For now, as much as you can try to remember that, sometimes that’s the first step in regaining our footing.
I’m so sorry. Hang in there.