[PegSJ]

I just went to my son's report meeting at school with my ex. He came in just in time, shared something about what needs to be done on his car tomorrow and then we started the conversation. My ex's part was minimal, nothing substantive really. During the ten minute conversation he even looked at his phone once, so disrespectful!

After the conversation I walked to my car, but he spoke to me in front of his car. He asked me why there was someone I know that had looked at OW's Instagram, he asked whether the children had something for him for Father's Day, he asked whether I wanted to get my son excited that OW wants to do something with him for him on the morning of Father's Day (I think breakfast or something - he even made a stupid joke about bacon) and whether I want to talk to my son about why he no longer wants to take much photos with OW (he wondered if that's just my fault, because apparently my son once said that I don't like it when he takes pictures with OW). My ex also called OW out of the car... Why
does he think I'm okay with that? I would prefer to have as little to do with her as possible. She recently stood at my door when the children were brought back. They don't take me and my boundaries into account... Fortunately I was able to hold my ground and keep my head up! Would that do anything to him? Or do they not feel sorry?

[forthetrees]

He sounds like a self-entitled ´rhymes with stick´ and starts with a ´p´. I think he was trying to bait you and/or push your buttons. You could benefit from learning how to pretend you are deaf and just walk away.

[Reinventing]

Yes, he was trying to bait you. I'm very impressed that you responded and didn't react by standing your ground and keeping your head up.

That shows a LOT of strength.

[Treasur]

I agree, well done!

I hope you can see too that all his questions were about him - not his children, not you - and that in his deluded head he thinks it’s still your job to smooth out any life wrinkles for him (including what are obviously a couple of ow complaints). And that you know that’s not your job any longer. So, your responses - if any, bc it’s ok to wave and dash off too lol - were  some version of No Idea, No and Not My Circus. And that you acknowledged OW’s presence with the same kind of indifferent civility that you would have used if she were a random car park attendant 

Right now, you’re still hurting and so you’re faking it until you make it. With time, it gets easier to see the predictable ridiculousness of these kinds of folks and to behave as if you don’t care bc most of the time you don’t care.

A couple of PSs though in case they are helpful
I don’t know how old your son is, but I’d dig in to a boundary now - in your head as well as in your actions - that you are NOT responsible for his behaviour when he is not with you but eith his other parent. If you’re not there, you can’t control that. And it isn’t your job to ‘make’ your child like ow or want photos or not or eat bacon or broccoli or get excited about x or y. Not your circus. And kids imho have a strangely good BS detector, don’t they?  It IS your job to support your son as he navigates this BS and feels how he feels, without carrying your feelings and opinions too, of course. And I’m sure you know that. But it’s not your job to facilitate a relationship with his father or indeed ow, just not to get in the way of however your son does. And to meet your legal obligations. No more, no less. And that’s good enough in the circumstances…tbh at times I suspect just doing that feels way more than you can easily do. (I suspect ow wants to play the ‘perfect stepmother look at me’ dance and is finding the shine is wearing off that bc kids are not objects but small humans with their own opinions and preferences lol)

And a bit about boundaries bc of your last couple of sentences.
Boundaries are by you, for you and about you. They may be needed bc of the behaviour of others, but they are not designed to change the behaviour of others….just to remove you from playing in other peoples $h!tety sandpits.

So, your boundary in this situation of keeping your head up and not letting yourself be baited? Prevents you from being arrested for punching ow in the face lol, prevents you from wasting time and breath on things that are futile, prevents you from being sucked into a drama triangle where your job is to solve his problems, prevents you from manipulated into taking responsibility for things that are not your responsibility, prevents you from being hurt by more nasty exchanges, prevents you from being baited into behaving in ways that might feel good in the moment but not so good looking back as a parent and woman. Do you see? And that’s often why less contact/interaction is helpful for us LBS early on imho…it helps us work out our own boundary lines and what the $h!tety sandpit looks like that we are trying to avoid.

From the cheap seats here in case it’s useful, the sandpit looks like ‘Peg, you are responsible for ironing out any wrinkles that me or ow don’t like, and signing up to our public story of a happy family triangle where no one is the bad guy….well, perhaps you for being a bad mum/not moving on/being unreasonable’. Which if it helps us not at all uncommon - you might want to read up about Karpmann drama triangles bc they are a real thing with the immature and disordered. And the only way to win is to refuse to play once you see the pattern. But it is SO easy and SO textbook to see the OW/spouse playbook bc they really are nothing special or unusual or smart….cheap selfish disordered humans behave in very predictable ways which are easy to see from the cheap seats here when it’s not your first rodeo lol. The traumatised bit of your brain is afraid of losing your children, afraid that ow is somehow better than you in the eyes of your kids as it seems she was in the eyes of your h. It isn’t true, but traumatised brains lie to us a bit. She isn’t special. He isn’t special. Their actions so far already show where your kids sit on their priority list in reality. That won’t change.Tbh they are, at best, like children with a puppy….all very fun and shiny until the puppy needs walking in the rain or chews your favourite shoes.

Help your son do something for Fathers Day if he wants to. For his benefit. But you and me and all other sane adults know that a father who leaves being a full time parent to such a small boy, who cheats on a pregnant wife and wishes a baby unborn bc it’s inconvenient, is not father of the year or likely to become so. And the same is true for ow.

Will your h notice your boundaries? Yes, if they conflict with what he wants. And if he doesn’t much like hearing No. or likes to be the centre of attention or a Billy Big Pants. And often when people don’t like boundaries, they react like toddlers…they get angry or try to manipulate you into dropping your boundary. Another reason why less interaction can help imho. Say No or Not Now or Not My Concern or I’d Prefer Not To as a complete sentence and walk away. How they feel about your No is no longer your circus….but it takes most of us a little bit of practice and time to get to that point. But we do. So, put simply, whether a boundary for you makes him do or feel anything x or y is not the point. And not in your sphere of influence anyway, although your h seems to consider that you have magic powers to get other humans excited about bacon lol. You have a boundary in RESPONSE to other peoples’ behaviours and certain situations, NOT TO CREATE other peoples’ thoughts or behaviours, if that makes sense?

This probably all feels overwhelming and f’ed up and painful right now, Peg, we know. But you did good and you’ll do better bc it gets easier once you can see the wood for the trees. And you will. X

[Songanddance]

Typical MLCer ..

It's all ME me, me, me me me me me me me me me me and who are you again?  Oh yes my problem solver!

Truth darts:   Simple statements like " I'm sorry S plays up when he's with you. However you chose to set up a new life, which has nothing to do with me and if he's with you then it's your situation to sort."

Or - "Your choice to walk away H - your problem to solve"

Or " your choice to set up with OW - H - your problem to solve"

Boundaries are " When you drop S off - only you are welcome to come to my door.  If OW appears - do not expect me to welcome her or acknowledge her." And act upon them.

Boundaries are not threats they are statements of intention and once established by you - you are then responsible for keeping them. H won't - he will try everything under the sun because you are "rebelling" and he wasn't expecting it...
It's then upto you to repeat and maintain the boundary.

I often tell this analogy.  You have a garden and at the bottom of the garden is a public footpath. Everybody strays from the path onto your garden at times.  You decide you want to stop it.  So you put signs up and yet people ignore it. So to ensure that no body treads on your garden you put a low fence up but still some of the more cheeky ones will hop over it and back again.  How to ensure that no body treads on your garden - build a big fence that cannot be climbed over or knocked down.

In the meantime look up RCR's truth darts!

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Boundaries are by you, for you and about you. They may be needed bc of the behaviour of others, but they are not designed to change the behaviour of others….just to remove you from playing in other peoples $h!tety sandpits.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Truth darts:   Simple statements like " I'm sorry S plays up when he's with you. However you chose to set up a new life, which has nothing to do with me and if he's with you then it's your situation to sort."

Wow, really thoughtful response. Not a truth dart but more like a truth axe. Which is what he really needs.

Boundaries are not threats they are statements of intention and once established by you - you are then responsible for keeping them. H won't - he will try everything under the sun because you are "rebelling" and he wasn't expecting it...

Very true and I would like to add that your h is just a Peter Pan. Only he is a little boy dressed up in adult clothes.

I would prefer to have as little to do with her as possible. She recently stood at my door when the children were brought back. They don't take me and my boundaries into account...

You may want to look into taking legal action if she continues to show up with him at your door. At worst, its intimidation and at best, its harassment. He can come by himself to pick up the children or you can look at an exchange at a police station. Remember, you don't have to care about his feelings or answer to him about your life at all. Remember, he fired you from that job. There are apps where any and all discussion regarding your children so you don't even have to talk to him. The apps are great because everything is recorded.

You many not have to go to such extremes, but it is always good to do some research so you know what your legal options are.

As far as Father's Day goes, you don't have to do anything. You may help your son do something small, but it is not your responsibility to warm up your son so he will be excited to celebrate a day with him. You are not Ed McMahon to his Johnny Carson.

Continue to be an awesome mother!

(((Ready)))

[PegSJ]

I'm having a hard time. This weekend my son is with my ex and this afternoon I have to bring my daughter.

In 2 weeks my son will go to my ex for 11 days. My ex refuses to make joint agreements for contact moments during the holidays. I get to speak to my son twice. Why does he decide and am I not allowed to have any input? He does expect me to accommodate him with adjustments every time. Until last sunday, he did not want to have contact with our daughter during my son's vacation with him. Now he wants me to drop her off twice, preferably at times that are convenient for him.

Yesterday he texted several times and I was stupid enough to keep responding, I was dealing with this from 11 a.m. to 8 p.m. Has anything changed? No... According to him, he "gives" two contact moments and I should "seize" those moments, because it is their holiday. Everything he texts is from “we”, he and OW, so annoying. I only continue to send messages to him, she is not a parent and in my opinion has no say in the agreements regarding the children.

During the previous holiday she sent some messages saying that they had landed and some photos/videos. Yesterday my ex sent me a message saying that he is very sorry that I did not appreciate this. Really, I thanked her, what else should I have done? I think it's crazy that she sends things and not him, but I grabbed it with both hands, otherwise I wouldn't hear anything.

Why does my ex mind it so much if there is contact between my son and me when he is there? I can take care of him every day, do everything that needs to be done, but when my son is there, I no longer exist or something. Why can't he just interact with me normally? Why don't my feelings matter? Why is it not possible to reach agreements together, but his will is law?

Every time my son and daughter are there, I feel so completely lost. I remain afraid that they would rather be there, because he manages to be the fun parent and do fun things. Sometimes I really wonder if I'm such a terrible person. Apparently I wasn't good enough as a partner and now I only matter as a mother on the days he doesn't take care of them.

So this afternoon I have to go to the lion's den again. How am I going to keep myself afloat? How am I going to rise above this?

[KayDee]

Gosh Peg, your H is being a prize turd. Why does he do all this? Because he is desperate for control and monumentally selfish.

I think the first task of the day is to dust yourself down and jettison the 'not good enough' narrative to the trash can. Think about it - if you did a two column list of all the things he has done on one side, and the ways you responded on the other, you'd quickly see who is 'not good enough'. Actually, I would word it stronger, I believe you will see that he is being abusive. The OW sending you pictures? It's a form of belittling. He can't even be mature enough to co-parent. Ask yourself - would you do that? That tells you everything.

When you dust yourself down, try asking yourself - why am I feeling bad about myself based on someone's abusive behaviour towards me? I don't know you, but I do know that most of the people that turn up on the forum are those that have the compassion to try to understand what ails their spouses. We are looking for answers, the crisis person is looking for quick-fix solutions and generally don't care who they trample on in the process. So, please breathe, and be calm. You are alright - you will learn later down the road, you are more than that, you will be the strong and stable force for your kids. So, a bit of self-care this am.

As to the childcare arrangements, others more qualified than me will surely contribute. My instinct would be to roll up my sleeves and write out a very clear, clean set of arrangements (I imagine there are all sorts of online resources for this, as templates. I think there may be an app). Get all this straight in you head, with your kids as the only priority. I would suggest then picking an appropriate time and place to go through this with him (i.e. not on the doorstep. No OW hovering like a bat). If he continues to be controlling and demeaning you may wish to seek legal advice.

So sorry, this is the very hardest part. It doesn't get easy, but it gets better as you find your strength, power and worth.

[Treasur]

First of all, I want to say how cruel and unfair this must feel to be forced to hand your children over and not spend time with them or have limited contact. There’s no way that this is not unimaginably painful and distressing - any normal decent parent would get that.

Secondly, I want to say that - regardless of how you feel - as I understand it, this is the legal agreement you have bc of what has happened. You are not the first parent to have to learn over time to adjust to something like this and if others can, you can too. You have legal obligations. So does your ex. No more and no less. And the detail of the agreement matters - what does your agreement say about contact with your son when he is away? Or the ‘rules’ about arranging/changing any schedule? Or drop off or pick ups? Bc you are only obligated to meet the legal agreement such as it is - and I’d bet I’d doesn’t include responding to text messages for hours or giving a damn about your ex’s opinion about anything much, right?

The third thing is that - understandably and normally - you feel that your ex and ow should care about your feelings and needs as the mother of small children. But they don’t. Bc they don’t. Again that must feel incredibly painful to see, to feel treated as if you are some kind of inanimate birthing object that does not count in their eyes as long as they deliver children to play with occasionally and should do as you are told when/how it suits them. But, based on what you say, that is how they think. It does not make it true just bc it is how they see it - just true when you are dealing with them.

Fourthly, as a good mum, you are dealing with tremendous short term pain at the service of the long term picture. I’m sure that, hard as it is and as sub standard a father he is, part of you hopes that your kids have some kind of father in their lives of some value to them over the next couple of decades. And doing what you are doing now is about that, it’s about your love for your kids and hoping for something ok for them, not about your ex or ow or even you. Bc that’s what decent parents do, isn’t it?

But how you do it matters in how you find the strength to do it imho. So, fwiw, my advice…..

You do it emotionally the same way you do anything else awful in life. One step in front of the other without letting yourself be driven too much by how you feel. Like going to the dentist. Or having a cancer scan. We humans do that with all kinds of things in life when our control is limited and the longer term potential gain outweighs the short term pain. Maybe get an image in your mind….think of your ex and ow like a smear test or a mammogram lol.

And check the details of your legal agreement about custody/visitation, maybe even with your lawyer, bc it’s hard to focus on these kinds of details when someone blows your life up. What are the basic obligations you have? And your ex? And what options do you have if your ex tries to ignore or change his? And set your boundaries accordingly based on that advice.  Other parents have chosen to use coparenting software for instance to limit text rants by their ex or have rules about how pick up/drop offs work to minimise contact with ex and ow. Step by baby step, start thinking of it more like a bad business deal and stop expecting your ex to care what you feel about it.

I don’t know if you are seeing a therapist or counsellor or support group for single mums in your kind of situation. If you are not, I’d really encourage you to do so. Why? Bc the heart of your current struggle is about how you adapt to living along side things that you can’t control. And how you put appropriate boundaries in place around that which protect you and your kids. Is that fair? No, it isn’t. Or easy? No. But you can comfort yourself in knowing that it is possible over time and getting the right kind of support as you make that transition can make all the difference. There’s no shame in needing support when our world gets blown up, truly there isn’t. And sometimes tbh it can make the unbearable feel just about bearable enough when we can talk to others who have walked in shoes just like ours. When we can learn from others’ experiences. When we can see that others and their kids have survived and found a way to still live well and happily most of the time.

So, check the legal stuff.
And find yourself some experienced support.
These are things you can do while your son is away.

As you figure stuff out, with support, you will probably find yourself reviewing some of your current MO. How many texts from your ex you will respond to and how quickly. How to do BIFF or Grey Rock (have a google to learn more). Whether it would be best to block ow from being able to contact you by phone/text. Whether it is a good idea to reduce or limit what comes to you via social media or what you post or how much you use some bits of it or change your privacy settings if you do. How you assess how your kids are doing and what is in their best interests. And how you teach yourself to take good care of you when they are not with you.

None of these things are easy, of course they are not. And none of them are fair or what you would ideally choose. We get that. But it IS possible to build a new way of navigating s$it in life….its just that, like most s$it, it takes a series of baby steps, time and being rather kind with yourself about the times you fall over.

So, again, responding to your questions directly….
You do it by doing it bc you have to and bc you want good things for your kids longer term. You have faith that it will not always feel how it feels today bc life evolves and so do we. You check the detail of your legal obligations so you know what you must do and what you can control. You find some support to help you navigate this for a little while. And you plan to do at least one tiny thing each day while your son is away that is a kind of gift to yourself….even if it is just taking a little longer over a cup of coffee or a walk in the park with your daughter when you are only having to keep an eye on one child instead of two. Doesn’t matter what it is….or how big it is…..and come back here and post your ‘one thing’ if it helps. Bc new paths really are imho built with very small paving slabs initially lol.

And know that we are here virtually cheering you on xxx

[PegSJ]

Thank you for taking the time to read my story and respond to it! Thank you for your listening ear and your encouraging words!

Somehow I know that because of what he has done and because of his behavior, he is the one who is “not good enough”. Still, I keep asking myself whether I could/should have done things differently. I try to communicate as best I can as a parent, not as an ex.

The agreements are clearly stated on paper. Where possible I try to think along with him if he wants to adjust something. Not as an ex, but from my role as a parent. I always try to think in the best interests of the children, even though he treats me like $h!te. Unfortunately, nothing has been recorded about the amount of contact moments when our children are with the other parent. The only thing that is actually described is that the parent with whom the children are staying will not stand in the way of an acceptable method of contact with the other parent, for example by telephone or e-mail.

Because of his messages I have things on “paper”. Normally we hardly have any contact, only when he needs something. The plan is a clear plan, but… if I don't go along with his wishes, there will be consequences for my children and me.

I get help from someone who watches every week how I should stand my ground in contact with him and who helps me how I can best help my children deal with this situation. I am getting help from a psychologist and I will start schema therapy in a while, individually and with other parents.

Today I managed to take my daughter to them with my head held high. I gave a short handover, gave my daughter and son a kiss and then I left. When they returned, my ex started again at the door about the contact moments with our daughter during the holidays. Consultation was again not possible. I asked that if I would bring our daughter during the holiday of our son wit him,  if it was an idea that I would go and have an ice cream with our son and then bring him back. Well, his immediate response was no, firetruck off and started laughing at me. Then he walked away. Before that he asked: do you know how OW feels that you don't want her to come to the door? Excuse me, do you even know how I feel after everything you've done? Sigh...

My daughter only slept 10 minutes with my ex. They both came back hungry. My son fell asleep 45 minutes later than usual. My daughter didn't sleep until 10 past 10 at night.

Fortunately, I am a little better at standing up for myself, although I still find it difficult. But still, for almost 2 years I've been wondering what's going on with him, because the way he has been since then, he wasn't before. Do they ever realize what they've done? Will they ever regret it?