[forthetrees]

When you reach the point where you grieve who he WAS and accept who he IS, you will be able to move forward. He is no longer the person that you knew. That is brutally hard to accept.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I can't emphasize how much I feel for you and your situation. You are enabling your ex to keep you from healing from the trauma he inflicted on you. Your son is five or six years old. He loves everybody. I taught first and second grade for almost a decade. My students loved me. I could draw, I could sing, and I could even dance. None of that was true but in their eyes, I was a wonder to behold. I remember once when my daughter was getting ready for school and I told her mother, "Remember, today is a minimum day." My daughter looked up at me with pure admiration and said, "Daddy, you know everything."

Just remember, this time doesn't last forever and eventually, he is going to tell OW, you are not my mom. Newness wears off, and the shine dulls.  You need to be his rock and the stability in his life.

The three of them are going to Disney. Something I would have loved to do with my family, and my ex knows that.

First of all, you ex really likes to mess with your mind. Lets look at what this man child has said or done:

 a) Asking you, while your were expecting, if you would have an abortion
b) Having an affair and moving in with OW
c) Threatening to take the children from you
d) Bringing OW to your front door

Second of all, MLCers have no imagination, they just repeat all the things the did before with the ex with the side piece.  If during these eleven days you are home with your daughter and you take her to the park. Post the pictures of you and her having a great time. Two weeks from now, your ex and OW will be at the same pack doing the same things. It's a competition for him. It shouldn't be one for you.

The other things is that you need to take your son and daughter on a vacation as well. Even a short one. You teach at a primary school, so I know you can be creative and fun. Be different and enjoy your time with your babies.

Whether he doesn't miss me, whether he doesn't miss the family, whether he has no regrets, whether he is really happy with her, why he has changed so much...

He has lost weight, eats healthy, has tattoos, does many things... Everything that wasn't with me before... Is it MLC?

All of this is unproductive thinking. You want to know somebody that doesn't care about your ex-me. He could win the lottery everyday. Doesn't make him a better person. Stop putting them on a pedestal. Yes, them, as OW occupies far too much space in your brain as well. I am writing this because I care about you. You can start by responding to the people that care about you and stop thinking about the two yoyos that don't care about you at all.

Focus on your mental health and stability. Make your time now on doing what brings joy to your heart.

You can do this,

(((Ready)))

[KayDee]

Someone wise on this forum once said 'We (the non-crisis spouse) pay upfront, in full. They pay in installments'. This really landed with me. I certainly feel I paid in full. In full pain and grief. In raking over all the details, moving from self-blame to more understanding and then acceptance. But still with pangs of shock. But like most of us here, I felt every moment, and I didn't run or hide. You are literally feeling your way through, Peg. In the not so distance future, you will find yourself planning and looking forward to a trip away. With your kids, with some friends, family, loved one. You will do it with a clear mind and a light soul. You will feel joy, because you will be doing it for the sole purpose of enjoying time with loved ones. And it's very unlikely that you will have hurt anyone in the process or that you will be trying to prove anything to anyone. You Peg, you will not be running away from yourself and your darstardly deeds. I know from personal experience it is hard to imagine this when in the midst of the storm, but you will come through this, and when the storm clears, you will be able to see things a lot clearer.

[PegSJ]

Yesterday morning my son was picked up by my ex. He is now there for 11 days.

Everything was ready for my son. I was putting his socks and shoes on when my ex started acting irritated. Cause: an A4 with photos of me with the children (which my son had requested). My ex has made it clear in front of me that he does not want to look at my head, that I teach these things to my son, that he is not allowed to call every time my son wants to (because that is not necessary), he has threatened to hit and nose pressed into my face. Everything again in the presence of my son. I've stood my ground, but don't ask me how. Then I asked if my son wanted another hug, but he picked him up and told me to firetruck off...

I had to give my son away like this. I feel so bad!

OW came walking to the side of the house, but it looks like she has a plate in front of her head. She doesn't see it... I just had to put myself in their shoes, because what is it like to have a photo of me... Apparently they also put away my card with 3 photos during the last holiday. She also doesn't think it's okay that I don't want her at the front door or inside yet, because she has reached out her hand and is trying to think along with me, because she sent some updates and photos during the previous holiday... But, most importantly, how is my son feeling?

Really, why does he hate me as a person so much? I really don't understand. Does anyone recognize this behavior?

[Treasur]

I’m sure most of us do. Or some version of it.
Which is a reminder that it is NOT caused by you or about any action on your part.

Stepping back a bit from the specifics, people tend to behave this way for one of two reasons essentially. They feel uncomfortable so they displace that by blaming and venting at someone else. Or they use threats and fear to get what they want. Or a mixture of both. Still NOT caused by you or about you. The same is true about OW’s behaviour imho….she is doing what she is doing bc it makes her feel good/better.

Which brings me to you….
First, I am sorry for how difficult and unpleasant that exchange must have felt for you. And your understandable concerns about how the situation might distress your son.

I am going to encourage you to use this time to think a little about what is going to work better for you from here on. To essentially do a version of what your ex and ow are doing…..to prioritise WHAT WORKS BETTER FOR YOU.

So, as an example, if your ex behaves in a threatening fashion - and threatening to hit you and telling you to F off certainly sounds like it - consider your own safety and your right to not be exposed to abuse. What would make you feel safer during these moments of exchange? Bc you have a legal agreement that allows your x a visitation schedule, but there are different ways of implementing that which do not mean you are forced to be exposed to his aggression. You might even find it helpful to take legal advice on this or talk to a local DV advice group. Others have chosen to drop the kids off rather than allow an ex to come to your home; some have set up arrangements where children are exchanged at a police station, public place or in the presence of a third party. Some have insisted that their ex is not allowed past the front door but waits in the car or outside.

Bc truly you do not have to tolerate abuse or aggression, particularly in your own home and you have options….your ex probably won’t like any of them but hey ho, he’s already left you so he gets no vote imho. You have to meet your legal obligations, but how you do it is in your hands. And you do that by caring less about his/ow’s opinion and more about what is best for you and your children.

Do you feel unsafe? Do you think you are being threatened or bullied?
If so, my advice fwiw is to take advice on how you can change how exchange works to limit your interaction with ex/ow and protect yourself and your children from being exposed to this kind of behaviour. You are obliged to hand over your children for visitation. You are not obliged to allow anyone to treat you as an emotional or physical punch bag. You are not obliged to ‘play nice’ with someone who swears at you and threatens to hit you or to interact with your ex at all if he cannot control his own behaviour. You are not obliged to feel happy about handing your children over and you are not obliged to care about how your ex or his ow think or feel about you.

Please seek out some advice on how you can protect yourself bc you DO have options and you DO have the right to say what and who you will allow past your front door.

[KayDee]

I am moved by what you wrote Peg. In the UK, his behaviour fits the legal definition of assault ' any act (and not mere omission to act) by which a person intentionally or recklessly causes another to suffer or apprehend immediate unlawful violence'. If a stranger did this to you in the street, you would call the police. I know it is complex, I truly do, and I know you are thinking about the impact on your children if you put in boundaries to protect yourself, but your son witnessing this kind of behaviour - it has to stop. As does the violence towards you, first and foremost. I think you know that this is having a detrimental effect on your son. If you struggle to find the strength to do it for yourself, do it for the kids. I feel so angry for you and the kids. Your H behaviour is abusive and violent.

Knowing that I needed answers to behaviour in the early days (and still do to some, but lesser, extent). IMO, he acts this way because he is full of rage and he is projecting it onto you. Weirdly, as Treasur says, it's not personal in that, it's not about you. Personal because you are the closest person to him. And perhaps the person he mistakenly believes is putting limits on his new magic happy life.  So sorry you are going through this.

[Nas]

The second that violence is threatened, it’s code red. He’s not threatening violence because he’s in MLC, he’s not threatening violence because he feels guilty and doesn’t know what to do with those feelings, he’s not threatening violence because he’s having a bad day. He’s threatening violence because he’s capable of threatening violence. To anyone, at any time, for any reason.

To continue on the way you are is putting yourself in danger, if not danger of direct violence to your person, it is danger to your mental well-being. You don’t have to live this way.

Please talk to someone, I don’t know what agencies or resources you have around you, but from experience, putting boundaries in place with a person capable of violence needs to be done in a very careful way. You need a safety plan ahead of time. If you put a boundary in place without a safety plan, things can escalate. If that sounds alarmist, I’m sorry, but this man threatened to hit you, in front of your young child. Your safety and the safety of your child comes before anything else.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

You are not obliged to allow anyone to treat you as an emotional or physical punch bag.

Absolutely correct on this and you need to take any and all precautions to protect yourself. I really don't like to pay for either my car insurance or life insurance, but I do each an every month. Right there with my mortgage payment. I don't plan on using either, but it is a necessity to maintain and support my loved ones. I strongly advise you to take whatever necessary actions to protect limit your interactions with him at your home. Arrange for a new drop off and pick up location in a public place. He can only communicate with your through a phone app. No need for any verbal communication between either one of you.

Or they use threats and fear to get what they want.

This is what I feel and both OW and he enjoy it. It makes them feel superior to you. OW wants to feel better since you don't want her around and her "man" is doing his best to put you back in your place. He sure picked a winner for an OW.

To continue on the way you are is putting yourself in danger, if not danger of direct violence to your person, it is danger to your mental well-being. You don’t have to live this way.

More advice on why you need to respond to his emotional immaturity. If he does start to talk to you, use your phone to record him. Let him know you are recording. Bullies don't like evidence. Remember, you and your ex are raising a young man and he should never see his father threaten his mother.

Use these eleven days to get legal advice and take care of your daughter. Be strong and let him know that you will not tolerate his childish actions.

(((Ready)))

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Second note to the verse. I was reading up on Netherlands Domestic violence and it is pretty much in line with US. However, I was thinking, is your ex wanting OW there to be a witness as well? Afterall it would be your word against their word. So not only can they both be bullies, they can be accomplices for each other. You may want to install cameras that record at your house as well.

Sorry about this, but your h is not high on my list of favorite people right now.

(((Ready)))

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Final note- please make sure you speak to your therapists about his threats. One, the threats continue the trauma you are trying to recover from and two, it alerts other professionals to your plight.

Once again, be strong!

(((Ready)))