[Dragonfly33]

Amazing Im terribly sorry about your daughter and for you as well. It must be very difficult for you to see your daughter being hurt by their dad. I could feel the pain myself as I experienced being abandoned by our father and I was your daughter‘s age. I didn’t understand why he had to leave. But I think you handled it well than my mom. It is normal for a daughter to want to have their dad around, I‘d always wished that as a child. I envied other kids. But later on I saw and understood what my dad did.

With regards to your h telling you he loved you while doing what he’s doing. My x did that to me as well. We were going on a trip to an island before that he told me he had to travel alone because he wanted to have his me time as I was a controlling wife. 🙄 he left me in the hotel by myself. My sister came heavily pregnant to accompany me. And tried to convinced me to stay at her place and spend the holiday with them instead. All this time my x was with the hoe, and finally I told him I wasnt coming because I couldn’t accept that he was with the hoe. He told me same line as your husband that he loves me and the only woman he will love in his life is  me. He will even wait for 10 years waiting for me to accept him back blah blah blah. It hurt me so much. And guess what, it was all to take control of me. Looking back sometimes I think he enjoyed that part where I was running after him. The moment I start to let go he pulled me back again. For a long time that was our dynamic as I was a slow learner. Until at some point I realized I didn’t want to allow myself to be hurt by someone like that anymore. That’s when I kicked him out finally. And up to this day, nothing much has changed. My x is still the same, lost in the MLC world. So yeah do not believe what comes out of their mouth unless it backed by actions.

Trampoline is a good thing to shake off all those negative energies. Virtual hugs to you amazing. Your update reminded me of the time I was in your sitch. I got emotional reading your story. there will be good days.

[amazinglove]

Thank you both Dragonfly and Treasur. Both such excellent replies they really helped!

He was back messaging this am saying 'i dont want it to end like this. I don't want to lose you'

I locked the chat (a new feature in what's app that honestly makes it easier for men (and women) to have affairs and I am disgusted by this - BUT in this case handy, so, I locked the chat so I do not have to look at anything he writes or see his name in my chats but can also save any of this writing in case i need it for a court case. Also I am not blocking him, which is dicey when you have kids together, but I do not have to look at him or his idiotic words unless I want to.

I have watched with interest this whole Ben Affleck JLO thing I must admit. There are things that remind me of my situation (Hint, I'm the Jennifer Garner here) but the idea of a 2 year 'fever dream' (which is how Ben describes what happened), the 'greatest love story never told' and once they actually get each other, they realize that they are totally mismatched, and now kind of hate each other. Meanwhile they both pined for each other for years (he wrote her love letters throughout his marriage to JG which JLO felt free to pass around).

Looks like the only reason Ben Affleck was even able to stay married for 12 years and have kids was bc of the supernatural goodness and patience of his ex wife. Post JLO (she named the separation date as April) he already has a new side piece (or side KICK more aptly) he's been seeing since roughly June. But what intrigues me here, in addition to the obvious parallels (bearing in mind the Moscow Mule/Super Gran is nothing next to JLO) is that the two of them were like addicted to each other - high on 'their true luv" - and the reality has now bitten. They are not even speaking now. It's satisfying to see if I'm honest -also the fact that jen Garner has a new millionaire, and stable, boyfriend.

[xyzcf]

Not just a tough weekend, it's been a very tough several months for you and the children.

In the state that you live, is there "no-fault divorce?" If he refuses to sign, are you able to obtain the divorce regardless?

It doesn't sound like he is going to be around much in the US so I am not sure that there will be regular parenting time with him. Pretty typical of the MLCer to also have limited and sometimes no time with their children.

Having to deal with your own grief at the loss of your marriage and family is hard enough. Seeing your children hurt makes it even more difficult.

I am glad that you are able to discuss how to arrange visits in the best interest of your children and for your own well being.  Sometimes the problem can be that the MLC parent is not consistent in their visiting times or phone contact and this makes it very confusing for the children.

There is a program called Rainbows for all children. Coping with Separation and Divorce.

https://rainbows.org/resources/divorce-separation/

They have a lot of resources and support groups for children. They are located all over the US and abroad. they have excellent information of how to talk to children about divorce and many other topics.

This is a very sad time for you and your family but you have shown yourself to be amazingly resilient and proactive. You have no trouble pointing out the inconsistencies in his actions and although your words probably will not change anything, you do get to say what you think.

Cry because i am not even dealing with an adult as I try to navigate what to do next. Just a giant baby. I wanted to talk to him about visitation, how to handle visits (i dont want him sleeping here in the house), when he will come so the kids can look forward to it (which IC suggested), how to tell the kids, whatever, and instead i just get this kid with hands over his ears going 'blah blah blah, i love you i love you i love you'

We really cannot make sense of what they are saying or doing. Time and time again, you will read similar accounts of their bizarre behavior.

You and your little ones are in my prayers.

[beyondblessed]

AL, I am sorry you are dealing with a child; trying to negotiate very adult things and seemingly getting nowhere.  My heart also breaks for your children, the innocence they should know at this time in their young lives has been ripped away....and you are left alone to deal with the fallout.  Pure MLC script at its finest.  Just when you think they couldn't possibly disappoint any more, they sink even lower.  And, as you've mentioned, you can't even begin to imagine fixing the situation, even if such a thing was within your power, which of course, it is not. 

Regardless of all of his protests of forever love, while cheating thousands of miles away, you are doing an amazing job of protecting and loving your children and yourself, and doing what will best serve all of you.  I hope for all of your sakes, he will have just one moment of clarity and do the adult thing and sign those papers.

I haven't really followed the whole JLo and Ben thing, but dang if those 2 weren't already doomed from the start.  They both brought the same baggage from 20 years ago and expected a different out??  Really?? lol  Sorry, but that isn't how the Universe works.  Sooner or later, we all reap what we sow.  Those two are a prime example of two highly publicized lives, both with dysfunctions that didn't play well with each other.  I've watched
 my own MLC xh from afar go through something similar with his "soulmate" OW.  They were also in twu luv for the first couple years, until the new and shiny wore off.  Now they are no longer together and are reaping exactly what they sowed.

[UrsaMajor]

Is there an emoji of a tiny violin being played?

Not an Emoji but....

[MadLuv]

Amazing ❤️- my children are adults, but the pain is real. Having a father for 30 years discard them like they mean nothing, just like me. Your kids are younger and it so hard to explain to adult kids, so younger is just impossible to navigate at times, specially when you are still trying to sort it all out for yourself. All you can do is reaffirm that they are amazing, loved and special. That their fathers actions are from internal struggles he hasn’t worked out and has nothing to do with them.

As I told my children. Your father in his right mind loves you. He isn’t in his right mind, but despite his behavior he still loves you. To me he thinks very highly of you. Thats why he stays away. He isn’t ready to face his lack in judgement and morals. You remind him of who he was and he is embarrassed that he let you down.  It is 100% on him and nothing to do with you. Period!!!

Keep doing you, AL. You are navigating it all so well. For me it wasn’t until I completely cut all contact that I could sort out things and see things more clearly.
Everyones situation is different and my husbands secrecy and unhinged behavior kept me a little unhinged. You are keeping it all together pretty well  and you should be so proud. Little by little as you regain your self and pride you get stronger . You are well on your way much sooner than most.

[amazinglove]

First and most importantly thank you for all of those kind and generously wise replies! They were all v helpful!
I have had a rough few days just all the things all at once as tends to happen sometimes. I really do feel like I need a win somewhere.
My kids are extra needy bc dad has effectively abandoned them. My son doesn’t even like me to leave the house and both kids get annoyed when I am in zoom meetings for work much of the day- and I’m working from home! The pressure I am under in all things is magnified by their enormous needs. I feel overwhelmed much of the time. My life does not feel like my own - just a series of running from one obligation (work) to another (kids dentist, doctors, parent teacher conf, urgent care for a poked eye on Labor Day, meals, homework) and also the fun things family movie night; evening walks with my daughter. I love them but again, so little of my time is my own. This season of my life reminds me of when they were new babies and I was juggling them and a career - their need feels big to me as I try to blunt the impact of what has torn up our family.
After lots of texts inquiring after my son’s eye and a few calls to speak to the kids I’ve blocked my H on all my portals. It was adding to my stress levels bc I’m so angry and it’s just too much anger and it ends up coming out at my kids or mom. He can reach our daughter directly and he knows I will contact him with anything major ab kids. Next day or two he will notice and find a way to reach out - and I’m planning to tell him I cannot be friendly with someone who is actively cheating on me. Give me a divorce, stop cheating on your wife and start your new life officially, and we can talk about building a friendship, eventually.
I am fairly certain in my heart there is no coming back from this for me, for us, ( like ever) and I want to be set free to rebuild what I can, standing on my own solid ground.
I read this and loved it by Henri Nouwen: "You can tell your story from the place where it no longer dominates you. You can speak about it with a certain distance and see it as the way to your present freedom. ... Your past does not loom over you. It has lost its weight and can be remembered as God's way of making you more compassionate and understanding toward others."
I want my story to lose some of its weight, on me, on my kids. It may require more time and  patience but it’s something I long for.

[Treasur]

That’s a rather nice and thought-provoking quote. Got me thinking this morning about my own path to here tbh, what sticks with you and what doesn’t. Tbh my best sense is that it works a bit like grief….with time the grief shrinks a bit, not sure it ever really goes away completely, but the rest of life expands so the balance feels different. In my case and circumstances, looking back, it took years (the bad news lol) but it also sort of happened naturally without me hunting it down (the good news maybe).

So please keep faith in that but don’t beat yourself up about it if that makes sense. The truth is, no matter how much we don’t want this experience to overpoweringly define us, for a while practically and emotionally it probably does. Bc someone else’s choices and behaviour has effects, doesn’t it? Whether we like it or not. And navigating round those effects, or finding a way to work through them, is just how real life is. I imagine that is even more so if you have children.

Hopefully other parents here will come along to share their experience of how they found ways to balance their own needs with their kids’ understandable anxieties and needs. I do recall reading quite a few stories here, including older kids too, when LBS found that their kids were a bit more anxious or needy or controlling post BD with the LBS. They may not even be conscious of it tbh, but it makes sense doesn’t it? If one parent can just up and leave seemingly out of the blue and no longer recognisable as the ‘old’ mum/dad, why could it not happen again with the remaining parent? Or something else awful? It’s a heavy weight to carry as the remaining parent but I suspect time, consistency and focusing on all the things that create that feeling of safety and predictability do their job. But it must hurt a lot to see those effects as a parent and to run life with some appropriate boundaries.

Imho - and I know others here might see it differently - it’s ok for you to exercise some control over the type and amount of access your h has to YOU.  And to let that evolve as you and your circumstances evolve. It’s healthy to say No thanks to things that are currently harmful to you….and ok too to change your mind about what works and what doesn’t.

 I get a slight flavour, maybe quite wrongly, that some bit of you is intending to have some kind of ‘talk’ when/if he reaches out realising you have blocked him in some ways? You might want to sit with those (understandable) feelings for a beat imho and let yourself figure out what they are really about and what your objectives truly are? Bc this stuff gets a bit messy at this stage for most of us. And a kind of ‘fighting talk’ or ‘blunt truth darts’ lol can be a different way of maintaining some kind of attachment even unconsciously. What I would remind you of is that you do not need his opinion, permission or agreement to set your own boundaries. You do not need to justify, explain or defend them to him or anyone else as long as you have sat with your own reasons for them long enough to feel at peace with those choices yourself. As long, of course, as you meet your legal and custodial obligations….but how you do that is up to you.

How are things progressing on the legal/financial separation front? Has your h signed the papers? What is your legal plan B if he does not? Or your tactical plan for getting what you want and need regardless? Reading between the lines - with a million caveats of course lol - it sounds as if he might want some kind of ‘friendly’ contact that you don’t? But I wonder if that is a lever you can use potentially to get some of what you want, a kind of ‘if you sign the papers and don’t make things more difficult, it will be easier to imagine a more straightforward relationship down the line….if not, then that will make things trickier for us all’ stance (and imho it’s ok to be vague and let him think what he wants, not lie exactly but be vague without actually having to follow through….in my world, my obligations to be open and honest with folks who have lied to me is pretty low 😝)

This is a tough time but it too shall pass. You are smart, resourceful and naturally given to a kind of bouncy joy and creativity, I think. You will not lose those parts of you just bc you are going through a storm; don’t worry about that. Or that your understandable deep anger will always feel how it feels now if that kind of anger is not your normal jam; it will do its’ job and pass through, so don’t worry about that either. There is quite a lot of psychological research that suggests we humans have individual baselines…..big life storms can throw them around for a while, but most of us with time return to that baseline of Me-ness. Certainly that was my experience even if I was a bit surprised by it. My lens is a bit different now but I am inherently every bit as much of a Babe the Sheep Pig kind of character as I always was, for good or ill 😜

[xyzcf]

There is so much to take care of....being a mother is tiring and difficult (and rewarding and awesome), doing it alone is exhausting. And we are already struggling with our own nervous system being in disarray from the trauma that MLC causes in our own physiology.

Seeing our children suffer from the actions of a parent, when there is nothing we can do have the absent parent step up to the plate is heart wrenching. Our children suffer and we suffer because they are confused, hurt and grieving from the loss of their absent parent.

If it is any consolation, I have seen how LBSers end up having very strong relationships with their kids, how their kids turn out ok. We are not perfect and trying to be a perfect parent is an impossible task...but the intention is there...to protect our kids at all cost.

This is the new normal. We did not ask for it, we did not choose it...it happened to us.

I had a thought reading your post. I was at a friend's yesterday and her dining room table was scattered with a 1000 puzzle pieces, tiny pieces that her family were patiently putting together, creating a beautiful picture. Our lives are kind of like this...the pieces are all there and it takes time and patience  and trial and error to bring a small piece together..there is satisfaction when we start to see part of the picture.

All I can think of, and it's really only a bandaid, is to make sure that you have established a routine, your children will eventually be able to trust that you are there when you say you will be and perhaps be able to be more relaxed because of the consistency that you establish in your home.

Our lives are in chaos...creating a routine that can bring some peace into all your lives will help with putting those puzzle pieces together.

[amazinglove]

Had some long interactions with my MLC husband over the past week or so. Just wanted to offer some reflections into the convoluted and hugely selfish thinking.

He says things like:
I cant articulate my thoughts and feelings into words, but I am in pain.
I miss you and the kids so much
I don't want to lose you
I miss spending time with you all
I don't know what I am doing right now
I will never sign divorce papers - you are my wife, now and forever.
I wish none of this had ever happened and we could go back to living our lives with the kids
When i see myself in the mirror I don't recognize myself
You are my best friend.
I want you to love me no matter what
Not speaking to me feels like a punishment
I am not OK!
I feel myself lost.

Bearing in mind that he is living with his mistress, traveling all over the place with her (altho he's with his parents right now) and has no plans to end that relationship and no set date on when he is coming back here to see the kids he misses so much. (he has asked for dates in November which I have told him I will get back to him on -but still that's ages away) he was buzzing the other day showing off to the kids his new motorcycle - altho he's lying for my benefit and saying his dad bought it for him (I mean, if I couldn't handle his new designer wardrobe...)

One thing that stuck out, yesterday he said to me, "I know you hate me right now, and you are totally right but...." and honestly in his delusional mind, it's like i'm merely mad at him after a bad spat or argument, not that he has and is actively betraying our children and our marriage vows. This is way beyond mad or 'angry at him' this is what comes after that, as in, done with him, never want to see him again - but he has minimized it to a huge degree in his mind bc that suits him. I have, at every turn, been clear that I will not tolerate his behavior and I am pursuing a divorce with or without him. I care about him, I care about what happens to him but I am not willing to remain his wife and it is too late to save our marriage. he has been seeing her for one year in October.  After we are divorced we can work on a friendship but I will never, ever be in contact or friends with an errant husband who is sleeping with another woman. Who WOULD be friends with that person?

One note. I have not spoken to him or seen him in nearly 2 months. It has been text only and related to our children. Seeing him on the phone ydy was jarring because he looks so utterly miserable, wretched and broken. Swollen face, bloodshot, sad eyes - he cried the entire phone call - esp when I told him our 11 year old has been saying 'I hate my father' (she refuses to speak to him on the phone and I am not encouraging that, but I am also not forcing her to do it). I realize that the tears are all for himself -but i will say this - this man is in chains. If you were ever going to visualize someone in bondage to something dark -it is this man. This formerly strong, really strong, clear eyed, good hearted person is like a broken, angry, mean, selfish being.  I don't know how to explain exactly what I felt, but it was def jarring. Now of course, I realize that he has willingly put himself in this prison, it is of his own making - he is jetting back to her in Moscow and then they are off to Barcelona etc etc and he will keep running, and she will buy him more things and it will keep him buzzing - but my gosh it is visbly taking a toll on this man.

I am a Christian and I certainly realize that is not the perspective or belief system of everyone in this wonderful group of wise people, and I value all thoughts and opinions - but speaking as one, I have to say that if you strive to live your life in lightness and love, are connected to a Higher Power and if you believe in darkness and evil, you really can see it playing out in this MLC situation. It feels really sprit-based or almost like he's sold his soul, sold out everything that was good in his life - in his case for ego, for money and sex - and the ugliness of that just comes off of him in waves.

It was good for me to see what a mess he is - in many ways it helped me because I really do see that the man I love is not in that body and whatever is going on in there, it's better it happens from a distance while I keep myself and my kids out of that storm.