[Flummoxed]

Reinventing, KayDee, forthetrees, and MadLuv, thank you all so much for your insights and guidance. I’m currently waiting to catch a flight back to our city (for now) to begin packing up my things. I’ve been staying at my mom’s since BD 2, borrowing clothes my brother left behind. I had been on a weekend trip when I got his text and packed very little… hoping packing will help move me forward a bit. I even went for a run this morning. But I’m sitting here in the airport on the verge of tears. He came here, to my home city, to conduct his affair under the guise of work. So it feels like he ruined my favorite place while I waited for him in a city where I was isolated and alone. I don’t want to grant him this power, but I don’t know how to stop.

Reinventing:

Thank you so much. It is lovely to have these beautiful memories- it reminds me he is not that person anymore. That person would have never done what he has done. He knew exactly how to leave the most damage- I should have let him go at BD 1. I just really thought I could help and make a difference. I will have a sharper eye for BS now, that’s for certain.

KayDee:

That makes complete sense to me, about trying to regain control. And there wasn’t a way he could tell me this in person- I think I make him comfortable and he hates that, I guess.  So cowardice it is. He’s absolutely in escape mode- I don’t think I realized until only recently though. Hindsight’s 20/20. He absolutely seems cool, calm, and collected- he’s even planning to meet with my family to explain his side of the story.  It feels practically sociopathic. I guess I don’t understand the patterns or thinking here- I’ve tried to scour the forum but I’m still lost. What do you all think?

Honestly, I don’t know what the lies to everyone mean. Can you please share your insights?  I was talking to my mom and she felt that bit especially showed forethought and planning.

I also really appreciate “look at the climate, not the weather”. I’m trying to reframe and look at the bigger picture.

I’m still coming to terms with this new reality. I’ve opened up to my family, but not my friends just yet. Hopefully soon though- I’d love to get to a relatively more solid place again with my support system.

MadLuv:

I think we may have similar experiences here. Having to travel that much for work, just looking at homes for curiosity and potential investments. The lies flowed off his tongue with ease. Even up to a few days before BD 2, he opened up to me and told me he didn’t know what he wanted and what made him happy. That he was confused and could not be in a relationship until he figured himself out. He even said I could decorate the bedroom I was staying in because I had expressed interest, though he had made comments prior alluding to a future move. Truly one foot in and one foot out until he sent that text and made his decision. I don’t think he could tell me in person- he is too comfortable with me and I guess I trigger him to be open and vulnerable and he doesn’t want that right now. He truly just incinerated his relationship with the only person that really knew the old him.

I think I’m still trying to come to terms with it because it still feels like he planned the lying to our mutuals, the move into a new relationship, the search for a new home. Logically, I understand the long-term follow-through isn’t there but it just doesn’t feel that way? It feels like he went out of the way to destroy what we had to the nth degree over the course of the past 1.5+ years- wouldn’t that require premeditation?

[Treasur]

Have you taken legal advice, Flummoxed? Particularly on the pros and cons of leaving the house you own together and packing up your stuff to live elsewhere? It’s ok and understandable if you feel you want to be somewhere else to lick your wounds and rebuild, but imho you should take legal advice.

On the wider issue of lies, premeditation etc….
It sounds as if you are struggling with some kind of rather black bs white way of viewing things, an either/or as opposed to a both/and perhaps. Or a belief that if your spouse doesn’t look completely bonkers to the outside world, then what he is saying is the truth? And should be your truth too?

Imho humans have an amazing capacity for telling ourselves a story in our head that justifies our own poor behaviour. And we tend to hang onto that story until/unless reality forces us to replace it. But we are not obliged to buy in to other peoples’ stories just bc they want us to if they don’t match up with our own reality. A healthy human adult imho has the ability to question their own stories and accept that others may see things differently and that they are not the centre of everyone else’s universe. Tbh, for a while, most LBS struggle with this too - it’s a normal reaction to trauma imho - and it can take a little while to get a clear lens on one’s own story and one’s own presenting reality.

I was minded of this reading a recent article about Prince Harry seemingly now wanting to repair some of the family and country bridges he burned. (Taken with an adult punch of salt of course bc well, media stories, right lol) But let’s say some part of it is true, that his new life in the US had not entirely panned out as he thought it would. It seems to me that he had a narrative in his head, whether one agrees with it or not, that drove his actions. And that creating that new life involved strings of decisions to create it and film it and write about it. And that there were some pretty predictable effects that came with some of those choices, but some of those seem to have come as a bit of an unwelcome surprise perhaps.

Imho MLC types - even bog standard unfaithful types - seem to approach life in a similar way. I don’t think they are all budding Machiavellis with some great long term plan and often seem to find themselves a bit surprised down the line when they get exactly what they created. I think they are emotionally reactive, not so good at the principles of cause and effect, and remarkably self-centred. Like teenagers with credit cards really 😜 They lie bc it’s easier than telling the truth. They blame others bc it’s more comfortable than holding themselves accountable. They do what they do in the way they do bc in the moment they can and choose to and bc it fits their own story….and they are not much interested in accepting the equal validity of someone else’s story. Like a teenager wailing about their awful parents ruining their life by insisting they tidy their bedroom or get up before midday….

Of course most teenagers grow up…..
They learn that lying has effects, that if you behave like an a$$hat people will start to see you as an a$$hat, that if you want other humans to treat you with respect and grace you need to do the same a bit more.
However some adults….and most MLCers….seem to have skipped that life stage and find themselves having to learn it later. Or in some cases, not. 🙄

Prioritising the legal and financial situation, and your own well-being, is the adult thing imho. It is dealing with the presenting factual reality as far as you can see it. Whereas spending too much time trying to parse the workings of someone else’s head is not so helpful usually.

It may be worth asking yourself what you DO factually know to be true. So, for example, do you know that your h has lied to you? And if so, in your mind, does that make him someone whose words are worth placing weight on or not? Regardless of what anyone else thinks. And asking yourself what the answers to your probably (normally) endless questions about his intent and rationale and mindset would give you if someone could wave a magic wand and come up with 100% accurate answers? If you 100% knew what you feel you don’t know now, what practically changes for you? What, if anything, would you do differently right now?

I say this with a big dollop of virtual love that you can’t see all the way over there though. Imho one of the normal things distressed and traumatised brains tend to do - and I’d bet we have all done it, I have - is try to make some kind of sense out of what makes no sense to us. It’s how our reptilian brains try to keep us safe, the life equivalent of trying to figure out if something is a shadow or a tiger. And bc feeling helpless is deeply scary so a bit of our brain subconsciously feels that if we can understand it, we can control it or fix it.

Again jmo but a lot of LBS have been gloriously screwed over in practical ways while their brains are trying to distinguish tigers from shadows. Bc in reality, whatever is going on started before BD, and we LBS are playing catch up for a while. And imho the way past that is to be kind to yourself while being as accurate as you can be about the facts you can see….to trust your own instinct that you don’t have to wait for a tiger to formally introduce itself to know it’s a tiger lol. And that the tiger What matters more than the tiger Why when it comes to taking care of yourself. Bc the bite can kill you whether the tiger planned it or not, was happy to bite you or felt bad about it later lol.

So, in essence, what matters most - and no one else can decide this for you - is if you see your h as a real life tiger right now and what you think you need to do to safeguard yourself from the effects of what is actually happening the best you can. If the tiger turns out to be a fat marmalade tabby down the road, you can always adjust your lens after all.

[KayDee]

That makes complete sense to me, about trying to regain control. And there wasn’t a way he could tell me this in person- I think I make him comfortable and he hates that, I guess.  So cowardice it is. He’s absolutely in escape mode- I don’t think I realized until only recently though. Hindsight’s 20/20. He absolutely seems cool, calm, and collected- he’s even planning to meet with my family to explain his side of the story.  It feels practically sociopathic. I guess I don’t understand the patterns or thinking here- I’ve tried to scour the forum but I’m still lost. What do you all think?

Honestly, I don’t know what the lies to everyone mean. Can you please share your insights?  I was talking to my mom and she felt that bit especially showed forethought and planning.

I know how important it was for me in the very early phase to make some sort of sense of this, to understand it. Treasur has covered a lot of this in her reply, and I want to add that, for me, in hindsight, it was a bit of a fruitless quest. For many reasons, but most importantly, you can't put yourself in someone else's head. Your H has his own agenda, and, I'm sorry to say this, it doesn't put you first, or perhaps not even in the picture at this point.  The other thing I have since learned is that a person in crisis seems to cycle a lot, change their minds a lot, forget saying or doing certain things - love you, hate you, blame you, hold onto to you. Want to fix things while hitting you with a hammer. On and on. Many 'decisions' seem to be made from the emotional and not the logical part of the brain - so storing to memory goes awry. Treasur nails it when she talks of a missed maturation - a person in this sort of crisis probably missed the part of life that taught us how to cope when things got tough. Fend for ourselves and be responsible for ourselves. Before crisis hit, they looked a lot like grown ups, but when the pressure got too much and they broke, they deploy the coping skills of the teen. They go back to what is familiar. If you reflect, you may see in your H a pattern of avoidance and running away from difficult things. And yes, teenagers are pretty self-centred and often completely unaware of the effect of their behaviour on others because they are so focused on their needs and how they look. Case example with your H  - he wants to meet your family and tell them HIS side of the story    Will it begin with 'I have been lying and breaking the trust of Flummoxed by having an affair for over a year now....'?Good luck with that! See how blinded he is by his own needs. On how HE is seen. No thought about how his self-justifications will hurt others. No idea how ugly his reflection is.

When I was standing in the dust cloud that blinded me after BD, I don't think I could really see how cruel, selfish, self-serving and thoughtless my H's actions were. Understandably, I still held the image of him that I had know for over two decades. I could not marry up the kind, thoughtful man I married with the cold distant stranger he seemed to become overnight. It is really traumatic and flips our idea of what is real on its head. There will be more twists and turns in your story yet Flummoxed. Just know, your quest to understand shows your empathy and compassion and that you have pretty healthy coping methods.

[MadLuv]

To me the lying just evolved for XH. I don’t think it starts with a master plan. I think he found himself depressed and by his own accounts started pretty simple with a subordinate telling him by work messages that she liked his shirt he had on. It then became a conversation non work related and got him out of his head for those moments.

I think once they step over that boundary it becomes easier and easier and they can say it’s just chatting, etc.  The lying happens when they cant excuse it anymore and so they then have to justify it. My XH does not talk easily or share easily, but I found messages to women he was not involved with that he shared small things that knocked me down. If they said, have you got your wife a Xmas present yet? And he answered, no. Doesn’t matter what I get she wont like it. Etc.

For me he did this because he knew he was doing things wrong and he was setting the stage so if it did come out he would be justified or just to convince himself. In the end he left on BD2 also and I lied to people to cover for him and protect him, but he lied to cover and protect himself.

I don’t think it’s easy for them to leave. The lies are to help them stay while they are figuring out what to do. I think my XH tried very hard not to leave. The problem is that he was living so many lies that there was absolutely no way for it to work without him coming clean, if you will. We feel the change. The pull back and that creates issues whether we know why or not .  The last conversation with my XH on his new life  he said, I’m really good at disguising where I am at. Not much is changing.  Very sad.

[Flummoxed]

Started packing important items and found a birthday card the AP wrote him for his birthday last year. The year he asked I not contact him. He spent with her; she called him the most supportive partner… they absolutely met through work. There was a keycard in the card to a private work station. I can’t move. I’ll have to come back another time to pack. I didn't think I could fall any deeper but here I am.

[MadLuv]

Hang in there. I understand your place right now. The unveiling of events cant just freeze you in the betrayal of someone you thought would never intentionally harm you. Just know that whatever is going on or has gone on that it is his escape and has nothing to do with you.

[Flummoxed]

Thanks, MadLuv. With the loopy, generous wording… it just doesn’t feel like they’re both broken people, you know? It sounds like he’s back to who he used to be but can be that person with someone else. He had saved a letter from me in our early days of dating- Ii thought that meant something. And then I found this… I don’t know if he’s broken, MadLuv. Maybe the issue is me.

[Treasur]

Started packing important items and found a birthday card the AP wrote him for his birthday last year. The year he asked I not contact him. He spent with her; she called him the most supportive partner… they absolutely met through work. There was a keycard in the card to a private work station. I can’t move. I’ll have to come back another time to pack. I didn't think I could fall any deeper but here I am.

We all understand how those seemingly small things can be surprisingly big triggers to a lot of difficult thoughts and feelings.
And it’s perfectly ok to stop and do something else for a while. Any LBS and anyone who has endured a significant bereavement gets that.

However, the bit I’ll challenge is what you’re inferring from it bc we LBS need to do that as we pick ourselves up over and over after these kinds of triggers.
What does finding that card tell you factually? Perhaps that the affair started earlier than you knew, confirmed that it was through work, tells you what she wrote at that time and possibly what both were buying and selling (a pretty standard ow dumsel in distress and he plays perfect white knight). It’s like Facebook - it captures a moment, no more and no less.

As a side note, most ow are a type. Either staggeringly stupid or remarkably Me Me ish to the point of delusion. This ow was fine with sending a card like this to a man she knew was married. She’s seemingly fine about picking up a man who can discard his wife without respect or care and moving into her house.  That’s not very bright, is it? And not a decent kind of woman imho. As I get older, the more I think that karma really comes from being who you are and doing what you do. Neither of them are much of a prize - she gets an unfaithful dishonest man, he gets at best a foolish woman. And it’s all glued together with teenage-like nonsense of ‘twi lurve’ word salad.

After all, I’d bet your h has written plenty of adoring cards to you over the years….how meaningful was that when the $h!te hit the fan? 🙄

I have written similar things to my xh. I guess you have too.
The difference is that (I assume) we weren’t writing to someone else’s h. And that we have shown what love DOES when life gets difficult. So we can know that we meant what we wrote bc we practiced it in the worst of circumstances.
Blah blah words are easy.

My best advice is to burn or bin it as bad energy fwiw.

What does it say about you?
Nothing at all.
What does it say about your marriage? You trusted your h as spouses normally do and he proved unworthy of your trust. That’s it.

[Flummoxed]

Thank you, Treasur- trying my best to absorb your words until they cement down. I’d love to burn the card but im hesitant- I left it where I found it. He saved it with our important docs… I feel like he’d know if it was missing. He saved it with the key card for a reason.

Definitely feels like a damsel in distress/white knight scenario. Who knows where they are now, if things are still so rosy and golden. But he’s still trying to kick me out so she can move in. So who knows.

100%- he never wrote me letters but I wrote to him and only him. She felt bold enough to write that to him, but he also made her feel bold enough, right? And then he saved it where it could easily be found by me if I went digging around.

I can’t believe this is my reality right now.

[Flummoxed]

I’m trying to absorb that neither is a prize. I always imagined affair downs to be not attractive, just based on what I’ve read on this forum. I haven’t seen a picture of her- nor do I want to. But I’ve been to his holiday party the previous year and everyone was generally attractive. Such a superficial place to land, I know, but I guess that’s why I’m stuck in if this is an affair down. Yes, for personality and morals, I’m assuming. But otherwise? She likely makes more money than me, per the company. I guess she showered him with praise per the card. I’m really trying to see that this is in no way about me- even my IC firmly told me during our last session. But I’m so stuck on what if this isn’t MLC? What if I’ve just been rationalizing away him just being a terrible person because I didn’t want to let go?

Treasur, I’ve reached out to my legal representation for guidance on next steps. Of course, will not be moving anything today aside from essentials.

MadLuv, I suppose our stories are more similar than I thought. I’m scared of the same outcome but I guess we just let go and move on. He never apologized for the affair, just apologized for giving me two weeks to move out. I’m assuming your ex didn’t apologize either? Do any of them before they’re out of the crisis? Probably not, huh? They truly feel it’s justified.

Treasur and KayDee, thanks for your feedback and insights. It makes sense- he did tend to avoid things that were uncomfortable or that he did not enjoy. I guess he has to learn. I hope he does. But at this point… maybe I’m just super naive as a newbie, but I just don’t see him coming back. I just don’t. After lying to everyone, cheating for over a year (I’m now thinking it could have been closer to 1.5-2 years to count potential EA and PA), then try to force me from our shared home… there’s no coming back from that. I just don’t see it. When you dive so deep into a mistake that big, to create that much chaos, how can someone perform and touch and go? How can someone try to reconcile? And that’s all assuming this is MLC at the end of the day. I thought he was a good guy but maybe he was just unhappy with me and our relationship like he claims. Maybe the little blips of the old him were just lies to string me along. Maybe he truly is that good of an actor.