[OffRoad]

Sometimes I think they have to build up grievances against us to make it easier to separate. So if "OMG" there was a pleasant interaction, then they have to act out and behave badly.  I rather attribute the flips to that. While my XH was living in the house, he'd turn sideways to avoid touching me in the halls. Then if he saw me wearing something he'd consider sexy, he'd say "Arrrr..." and then catch himself and disappear. If he behaved badly for no actual reason (yelling at me when I had done nothing), he'd leave the house. He knew at some level he was wrong.

I would always say I watched him like a bug in a terrarium. It was fascinating if I weren't in the middle of it because his behavior was so off. The man who would stand on the edge of cliffs without a care was suddenly afraid of heights. In all the time I had known him he had never been afraid of heights.

I also used to refer to my Teflon armor. Whatever he did, I did my best to let it slide off. It's hard to think we can't do something to help, but we just can't. Mine wasn't happy for 5 years, 10 years, ever. It changed from day to day. But I have pictures. He wasn't always unhappy. He doesn't get to take my memories from me. As the years have gone on and my kids have gotten older, I tell them stories of happy times I  had with their father and they are gobsmacked. Because after all, he and I were never happy. And I show them pictures and they know what is true. I don't say bad things about him, just celebrate the time we did have when I share these experiences.

The man you remember is not what is in existence right now. Do your best to stay as detached as you can. It's a fascinating watch if you can keep yourself from personalizing it (really hard to do).

[Flummoxed]

Thank you so much, xyzcf, Biscuit, and OffRoad for sharing your guidance and experiences! Your feedback is truly appreciated and kind of entertaining as well!

It’s really nice to know that this is normal progression (as nice as any of this could possibly be, of course). I promise- right after this post I’m going to dive into a little coloring while watching a comedy. I took next week off for personal time and am looking forward to spending it with my extended family. Lots of love and a bit of chaos, but I know they’re trusted, full of love, and truly want the best for me. Im also working on fully detaching- my (shorter) mantra has been “it’s not about me”. My IC recommended “this is my time”, but I’m still struggling with that one as you can probably tell.

I had unfortunately completed the exercise Tailspin had written about in his thread- reviewing old text messages and seeing the progression of MLC. You’re right, xyzcf, it really is only clear when looking at it all in hindsight. I’d say there were about 9 months of flipping, even saying he was trying to learn as much as he could about himself to get better around the 8 month mark. I’m pretty sure he was still with OW1 at that point. He seemed to be in a deeper depression at the 10 month mark (potential withdrawal) and then fell off the deep end at the 11 month mark (start of OW2). He still denied wanting to separate, claimed he just needed to figure himself out, until the 19 month mark which triggered BD2. Now he says we’ve been separated since the 9 month mark (which is just factually incorrect and wouldn’t I have known?) and has flipped from saying we’ve been divorced since last year to we need to get divorced. Too true, OffRoad; It truly is fascinating when you’re not in the midst of the chaos. This guy also seemed to take notice when I wore something new or put on makeup. Then nothing but retreat- (shrug).

I guess he’s in that steadfast place of feeling this is the right thing for him. I’m doing my best to stay calm, friendly, yet detached. I’m planning to move out in the near term and we’ve been coordinating the process as smoothly as we can. I’m looking forward to wrapping up the move to then hopefully not have to be so involved moving forward. It should definitely help with the healing and making way more progress with GAL. Biscuit, I just got the chance to read a little of your thread- it sounds like you're a champion at GAL! Truly- it’s inspiring me to get myself out and about. Thanks for sharing your story.

[Flummoxed]

Journaling:

Spiraled down yesterday- as predicted, most people don’t believe me, and the ones who do are tired of my hurt and want me to feel better already. The only group of people that actually believes me is the one in this forum. I’m truly thankful, I swear, but it also makes me feel like a conspiracy theorist sitting in my bunker waiting for the world to end and that just isn’t me. All of this is truly crazy-making and I swear we are all of sound mind. I feel like he’s convinced everyone that I’m off my rocker and by inadvertently discussing this with people who have accepted the “we’ve been separated for a year now” lie…. Well, I’ve played right into that hand.

I need to GAL but I’m currently stuck in the suburbs with no access to a car. I’m not sure if I can buy or lease one with a divorce impending.

I guess im just feeling stuck. Getting out of the house (finally) next in a couple of days, so that should bring some improvement, but the lack of independence and almost total dejection of the truth from the outside world is really taking its toll.

[xyzcf]

Yes, people 1) don't want to enter into this deep hurt that we are feeling 2) many people divorce (50 % of marriages) but often those divorces occur in marriages that were bad for a long time, or both people want out....our marriages imploded very very quickly and along with that come all the changes in our lives that we have to deal with when we are in a place of "distress"...our hearts and our brains find this impossible to understand......people, who have never experienced this, do not get it. I felt like I was being "judged" and maybe that wasn't the case but I felt like people thought I was being pathetic and I had never felt that way in my life before.

Getting out especially around other people really helps...book clubs, bowling leagues, exercise classes ( my favourite is yoga) meet up groups...a plethora of choices but not having transportation really limits your choices.

Buying a car is a huge expense, not just for the car, but registration, insurance, repairs. Perhaps leasing a second hand car might fit into your budget.

Or,  give your self permission to take an Uber/Lyft...you are worth the expense and that would be less than buying/leasing something.

I was fortunate that I did not have the lack of money that most LBSers encounter.

I was also advised legally not to get a job as that would impact how much maintenance I would get. I had worked for 27 years and I loved working as a nurse, but had quit my job 7 times to follow his career path all over the world. In retrospect, it would have been better for me if I had a job to go to every day.

We have good days and bad...we think we're finally "better" and something makes us go down the tubes again.

Keep writing here because we do understand. I hope you can obtain some resolution to your transportation issues because being isolated from others is really hard.

[LC]

I wish I lived nearby. I’d pick you up and we’d go for a drive. But alas, I have no coolant and no money; the irony
Hugs from one LBS to another. You are definitely not alone.
Hang in there

[Flummoxed]

Thanks so much, xyzcf and LC!

xyzcf, your response is exactly it- it’s all just so sudden and the hurt and pain is too deep for others to feel comfortable around it for very long. Though, of course, with the MLC lies everyone who listens to them believes the fallout of our relationship aligns with Point #2. I absolutely feel judged and humiliated, although I know our relationship truly wasn’t bad and that my H was happy when he claims he was miserable. It sucka because an old boyfriend had behaved in a similar fashion (cheated, gaslighted, the whole shebang), but he was just a young adult with little/no self esteem and absolutely no respect for women. I know and feel the difference between the two situations. The ex boyfriend truly never was the person I thought he was. H really was and flipped on a dime. With exbf, everyone saw through his BS and some people even warned me. With this, our mutuals are so split because H was never a liar before this but neither am I.

Thank you so much for your advice! I’m going to look into potentially leasing a used car or renting a small place in the city so transportation is less of an issue. I’ll speak more with my legal representation, if there’s anything I should consider before making any decisions. But an increase in independence is definitely needed.

Truly- a huge chunk of this is dealing with the gaslighting and spew while in bereavement. It’s such a bizarre culmination of experiences and I’ll try to keep remembering it is normal to have to take a step back once in a while. I’ll be sure to continue writing- I sincerely appreciate this forum. It is truly such a bittersweet thing to know this is such a shared experience.

LC, you are hilarious. 😂 It is truly the thought that counts and sending hugs back! I sincerely hope your coolant issue is resolved soon so that you can get back to adventuring yourself.

A question for you all: in your experience, was it worth fighting the lies that were spewed out during the legal process if they do not impact things financially? Of course, I’ll discuss this further with my representation, but if an MLCer is so convinced of their version of reality despite very clear proof of the contrary, I hesitate to even address them to avoid unnecessary monster. It feels like I can either be right, outline all the actual facts, and be at risk of him pulling a tantrum or let his lies rest (unless he stresses them), not fight for what I know is the reality, and try to not rock the boat and hope for a better outcome.

At least from his counter to my counter, I got a great view of the lies he’s been telling himself and others. And though there is a sprinkle of truth, not nearly as terrible as he claims, it kind of makes me feel better to see that he really did have to make a bunch of stuff up to justify his actions. I know who I am as a person. I know what we had when he was himself. From my research of posts in this forum, this could go on for quite some time as, in a way, he’s only just entering the deeper part of the tunnel. I think he tried really damn hard to fight it for a year and a half but the fog is getting thicker now and I just have to let him be to do his thing. And, in that vein, stop peeking over and really live for me. I actually remember loving being single the last time (not the dating side of things but just the freedom side- i definitely lost myself in this relationship after making so many sacrifices. I look forward to finding myself again!

Goodness, I always end up writing a full on novel- Ihank you for reading if you’ve gotten this far! 😂

[Treasur]

I can’t even recall now the list of legal reasons my xh provided for his divorce. I remember they were weird opposites of reality as I knew it, and my then lawyer advised me not to pay too much heed to them or react from reading them bc they made no difference legally. Needless to say, his affair was not mentioned lol…..or money he’d stolen…or the threats to my life. If I remember, broadly his reasons came under the heading of ‘wasn’t a good enough cheerleader and support for my wonderfulness’  Which was ironic bc, with hindsight, I think my biggest marital flaw was being rather too generous and supportive with my time, respect, optimism and cash ha ha. But it’s a long time ago so I really don’t recall the details now.

I think your instinct on this sounds smart and sane and sensible. Do what will serve you best; not bc you are trying to appease him in the hope of better behaviour from him, but just bc you care about where you most fruitfully invest your time and energy.

Plus imho you can’t argue rationally with f**kwiitery and can waste a lot of energy trying. Nor can you control what he says/thinks or what others choose to believe.

People who really know you will know what’s in your behavioural wheelhouse and what’s not, so they won’t believe him. Ditto those who have a good radar for f**kwittery and DARVO and folks who avoid holding themselves accountable for their own actions bc that’s a hard-earned life skill that some of us acquire by going through this kind of awful experience or similar. I read an article this morning about a minor celebrity here who is apparently trying to find redemption by telling ‘his real story’….it was like DARVO central so I stopped reading! Those that do believe him, put simply, either don’t know you or they are not on your team bc they have a different agenda.

So, follow your lawyer’s advice and do what is best for you….

[OffRoad]

The problem with people is that they are mostly wrapped up in their own life. Sure, everyone gives lip service to their "tribe" and "being there for you" but in truth, most don't want to be bothered in my experience. They are in pain? They need all the attention. You are in pain? Get over it. This is how we weed out the people we should not have in our lives.

That being said, there is also a subset of people who just don't know how to act or  react. And a subset who think they need to be Switzerfriends.

Case in point for me, former in-laws. I tried to be polite and keep in touch and send cards and got nothing in return. My D says "They LIKE you" and she brings home lemons or pluots or whatever when she comes back from visiting there (they have fruit trees). Hmm. They like me so much they have. never, not once, called to see how I was doing, if I needed help, hi, howz it goin', nothing. That's a lotta like there....not. So if we ever end up at the same place, they put on the "Hugs" shows for other people, as if we'd seen each other outside of a random encounter in 9 years. Or even talked to each other in 6 years. For my kids sake, I roll my eyes and suck it up because I really think they have zero idea how to react to the situation.

As to Switzerfriends, I let most of those go. If they think what he did was OK with them, they don't have my moral code. Not really a good match for a friend these days. But hey, I JUDGE people. If Joe Fred down the street is a child molester, I JUDGE that I don't want my kids hanging with him. SUE ME. I judge everything and sometimes my judgment is "Eh, who cares?".  This is freedom and everyone gets to choose what they want in their life. Do I WANT to hang with people who are stupid enough to believe lies that are blatantly obvious? Nope. I mean, my HX lied like a rug. I always say, he lied to me, he lied about me, he gaslighted me, he stole from me, cheated on me, verbally abused me and abandoned me. I didn't find evidence of the cheating until later, though he was sure we had been done for x months, x years, x decades, forever depending on the day. So it wasn't really cheating, right?   It would, however, have been great if HE'D TOLD ME. There I was schlepping along thinking he was just having a hard time at work, when it turned out he was the one causing his own problems.

And now, is it worth fighting the lies? Only it it matters to what you get in the separation/divorce settlement. People who really know you know where the lies are coming from. People who don't can believe anything they want. With any luck,you have lived your life so that no one will believe the lies about you. No one believed the lies about me, but they did Switzer.

List your facts as you know them, with dates and amounts if you know them. (he walked out on x date, on that date we have x amount in joint account abc. My half would be blah blah. House was worth x amount. Retirement worth x amount. ETC) Let your solicitor tell you what you best move is (use those numbers or current number or future numbers). Those are YOUR facts and it doesn't matter what he says. He can say the sky is chartreuse and you just say, my fact sheet says it's blue.  Saying he's lying helps nothing in this case because it's obvious the sky is blue, if you see where I'm going. Whatever your facts are, and that can include some opinions if you have no way to document a date, you stick with those unless someone can prove something different. Boil it all down to a spreadsheet.

I can say definitively that this worked for me, and may not work for everyone. Your mileage may vary.

[OffRoad]

folks who avoid holding themselves accountable for their own actions

This. ^^^^  Avoid these people. A lot.

[Tailspin]

A question for you all: in your experience, was it worth fighting the lies that were spewed out during the legal process if they do not impact things financially? Of course, I’ll discuss this further with my representation, but if an MLCer is so convinced of their version of reality despite very clear proof of the contrary, I hesitate to even address them to avoid unnecessary monster. It feels like I can either be right, outline all the actual facts, and be at risk of him pulling a tantrum or let his lies rest (unless he stresses them), not fight for what I know is the reality, and try to not rock the boat and hope for a better outcome.

I can tell you in my state it doesn't even matter (No fault divorce state).  I learned from someone that fighting their lies is useless because in their heads they are always right.  They are so self-focused that their brains take minor things and change them into huge issues to justify their awful behavior.  It's the strangest thing.  My wife in the 1st and only MC session she went to, told the therapist about a night I was cranky because I was tired.  It was from a year ago.  The therapist followed up with "Why was it so defining?".  Wife's answer was "It really bothered me because I was tired too".  That's it.  To her that was something to forever be mad about.
I stopped trying to figure out her logic.  MLC puts their brain in a locked-out mode that we don't have a key for.