[UrsaMajor]

W said in classic Dirty Harry fashion "The question you have to ask yourself is....is the misery the result of what was happening in SIL's outer world, or does the unhappiness actually live in SIL herself? I'd say it's actually inside SIL. Your thoughts?"

Can't make this stuff up if you tried...... "Ya think?" might have been a wee bit snarky for a response.....

[The Navigator]

Well, I could get snarky, but what would be the point?

It would be a net loss.

I'm far less enraged these days than I used to be about all the things that went down. I essentially lost the entire decade that was my 30s and I'm now 48.

I could get bitter about that but then I think about friends of mine who didn't make it to 40 - a couple of them didn't even make it to 18.

Being an LBS and dealing with my W when the devil literally took possession of her was a necessary part of my development.

[UrsaMajor]

Well, I could get snarky, but what would be the point?

It would be a net loss.

I'm far less enraged these days than I used to be about all the things that went down. I essentially lost the entire decade that was my 30s and I'm now 48.

I could get bitter about that but then I think about friends of mine who didn't make it to 40 - a couple of them didn't even make it to 18.

Being an LBS and dealing with my W when the devil literally took possession of her was a necessary part of my development.

No words needed.....

[The Navigator]

That only works if, deep down, the woman in your life knows you’re capable of being “really nasty”…….if….and only if……the situation warrants it.

If being gentle is *all* you have as a man then you’ll eaten for breakfast or friend-zoned by the females with whom you come into contact.

I wish it weren’t so….but by God…..it is so.

[The Navigator]

Ah yes, and bomb drop was exactly 17 years ago today.

Incredible.

[OffRoad]

That only works if, deep down, the woman in your life knows you’re capable of being “really nasty”…….if….and only if……the situation warrants it.

If being gentle is *all* you have as a man then you’ll eaten for breakfast or friend-zoned by the females with whom you come into contact.

I wish it weren’t so….but by God…..it is so.

That is kind of the same for everyone though I don't know that you have to be "really nasty" capable. You DO, imo, have to be assertive capable. Others have to understand you will NOT be their breakfast unless you feel like it. And you teach people how you will accept being treated. Gentle does not equal doormat, after all.   

[KayDee]

That only works if, deep down, the woman in your life knows you’re capable of being “really nasty”…….if….and only if……the situation warrants it.

If being gentle is *all* you have as a man then you’ll eaten for breakfast or friend-zoned by the females with whom you come into contact.

I wish it weren’t so….but by God…..it is so.

That is kind of the same for everyone though I don't know that you have to be "really nasty" capable. You DO, imo, have to be assertive capable. Others have to understand you will NOT be their breakfast unless you feel like it. And you teach people how you will accept being treated. Gentle does not equal doormat, after all. 

I snagged on this comment too. Maybe I read it wrong - it read to me like all (straight) women love a bastard. Or at least, a bad boy. I don't know many women like that actually. Certainly not me. I like intelligent, kind men. I'd like there to be less emphasis on men having to be macho. I expect many men feel that way too. It must be for many, a really uncomfortable pressure. I like what OffRoad said, I interpret this as someone with good boundaries.

[KayDee]

Gosh - I smuggled a cuss word in, when poor old Charles d!ckens is censored 

[The Navigator]

That only works if, deep down, the woman in your life knows you’re capable of being “really nasty”…….if….and only if……the situation warrants it.

If being gentle is *all* you have as a man then you’ll eaten for breakfast or friend-zoned by the females with whom you come into contact.

I wish it weren’t so….but by God…..it is so.

That is kind of the same for everyone though I don't know that you have to be "really nasty" capable. You DO, imo, have to be assertive capable. Others have to understand you will NOT be their breakfast unless you feel like it. And you teach people how you will accept being treated. Gentle does not equal doormat, after all. 

I snagged on this comment too. Maybe I read it wrong - it read to me like all (straight) women love a bastard. Or at least, a bad boy. I don't know many women like that actually. Certainly not me. I like intelligent, kind men. I'd like there to be less emphasis on men having to be macho. I expect many men feel that way too. It must be for many, a really uncomfortable pressure. I like what OffRoad said, I interpret this as someone with good boundaries.

I said you must, as a man, be capable of being really nasty if the situation happened to warrant it.

Situations warranting such an approach could, in my view, include dealing with things like an intruder in your house, someone harrassing your wife or children ...... in other words a genuine threat. Also cold callers trying to scam you, calling again when they've been asked not to ..... no point in being polite with them.

I very definitely did not write, nor indeed imply, that a man needed to be nasty all the time to be successful with women, the nastier the better.

It has, however, been my experience that "nice guys" (guys who hope the world will do them a favour in return for being "nice") finish last. Forgive me, they often don't even "finish" at all.

If you have weak boundaries, predators and parasites will smell it a mile off, and sooner or later you will be exploited.

[marvin4242]

It has, however, been my experience that "nice guys" (guys who hope the world will do them a favour in return for being "nice") finish last. Forgive me, they often don't even "finish" at all.

If you have weak boundaries, predators and parasites will smell it a mile off, and sooner or later you will be exploited.

I wanted to jump in and as a self proclaimed "nice guy" say that I believe that we should exist in the world the way we wish it to be, because otherwise we simply become the problem and not the solution. But people who know me well would definitely NOT say that I have weak boundaries, or I finish "last or don't finish" at all. In fact I would like to think I have had a rather charmed life, and despite having my wife suffer from MLC I have not become jaded nor bitter. I have been involved in highly competitive endeavors in my life, and have been around people who share that view of "nice guys finish last." I have seen SOME of them do "better" at the expense of others, but I have never seen one that has been more contented (or rather not be miserable) as the price of their view.

I have chosen to be cordial and kind to my W despite all her actions, AND have held very firm boundaries with her at the same time. These two things are not in conflict. The one thing I do tell people at the right time if they think being nice means being weak is that "I am the nicest person you will meet, until I am not."