[Treasur]

You’re doing pretty well imho, all things considered, even though you probably don’t feel like you are. Your job is to just keep going and learn good ways to pick yourself up when you fall over - and we all fall over sometimes 😝

And of course you haven’t felt playful if you and your child have had some serious health challenges. Duh. Can’t tell you how many LBS stories here (including my own) have a BD coming after a difficult patch of serious health issues that have required an LBS to focus their time and energy elsewhere…..these MLC folks seem to hit the buffers for some reason when the LBS is less available for some reason and they need to step up and do some serious adulting. 🙄

[zartheit]

In regard to being "playfully feminine", I had a similar "shoulda coulda woulda". The marriage counselor I found for me and my ex-wife scheduled individual appointments for us. In one of mine, he told me that he had met with my (now ex-)wife. He told me that she thought I was incredibly funny. He then asked me, "where is that man now?" For context, I was sleeping maybe 30 minutes a night, and every time I woke up I would be covered in sweat. I was unable to focus on anything aside from the feeling that the weight of the world was dangling from my intestines. I was scared of losing my job, of devising a new budget, of, honestly, staying alive. I had lost probably 20 pounds and had multiple people tell me I didn't look well. All that is to say, I was definitely NOT very charming, or charismatic, let alone FUNNY!

I imagine the counselor's intent was for me to attract my ex-wife, but the thing is my ex-wife was already gone. I believe at that point she was doing everything she could to justify to the world that she had done everything, tried everything, but the marriage was unsalvageable. She performed these rituals not because they might DO anything, but as certificates she could present to people asking her questions about what she had already done. I imagine she can still comfort herself as she instigated marriage counseling, she attended 5 sessions (or 6, or whatever the advice says about minimal attendance), but even after all of that it just didn't work! I remember telling her after probably one of the last session we had together that I felt she wasn't trying. She was furious with me. I asked her if she believed she was trying and she said "of course". I don't doubt her, honestly. She likely WAS doing everything that she could. But that's the thing, what she could genuinely do was essentially nothing. Her heart wasn't in it. She didn't want it, even if she likely wanted to want it.

Oh! That also reminds me of another story. This time I WAS being funny. One thing my ex-wife said was that she wants to "date". I took this to mean she wants me to take her on more dates, so I started planning more dates. I remember opening the door to her office (as she started keeping it closed and staying in it during the weekends) to invite her to play pinball and listen to live music nearby. She said nothing to me. She simply stared. I felt absolutely worthless. As I am closing the door, I say to her "I love you". She, of course, doesn't respond. I then continue "even though it is hard some times" but said light-heartedly and with a smile. I noted her smile and felt the tension evaporate (well, as much as it could). Later she used that line against me, saying I was intentionally trying to hurt her. I don't quite remember how she was able to spin not responding to "I love you" as me being the one with a dagger out but I do remember being blown away with the maneuver.

This is all a long winded way of saying that I believe Treasur is right on target. At this point in time, I feel that caring for YOU is the only thing that matters. Trust that everything will come with time, but it starts with self-love. Here is a little poem I wrote when I was too scared to leave the house and feeling ashamed at that. It came out spontaneously after I simply took care of myself. Hopefully it might mean something to you too.


Today is one of those days.

Where the volcano erupts. Where the ash chokes and melts and stains everything. The darkness steals all vision and you grope for familiarity. The trauma clouds your memory and you exist alone as the sky pours its hatred onto you.

Today is one of those days.

Where the boat glides across the horizon and you can't tell where the sea meets the sky. Alienated, isolated, damp and cold, just staring at your inventory knowing it'll run out sometime soon. You fearfully take a bite.

Yes, today is one of those days.

Those days that make you proud of yourself. Those days where you can clothe and wash and care for someone as worthy as yourself. Those days where you are given the gift of protecting and comforting such a beautiful and delicate soul. Those days where you get to cradle and soothe a champion.

It's not every day you get to be the hero's hero.

[Arcticfox]

Hi Treasur and zartheit!

I am having a little better day today. Meaning that I didn’t wake up at 5am wanting to die asap,but at 3:55 just feeling I won’t survive. I can relate to everything you wrote about your feelings zartheit. I can sleep 4-5 hours per night and that is with medicine. I also fear that I will bee unable to work because I can’t sleep and total ruin is in the cards for me. Mornings seem to be the hardest for me and evenings somewhat better but it varies.

I feel so alone with the kids here, can’t really discuss these kinds of feelings with your kids. And next week will be worse as S9 and S17 will be at H’s place and S14 is in his own room all the time anyways and he is the quiet one. I don’t know how many texts and calls my friends can take as this thing/my pain will go on for a while.

I think that H’s depression could well have started from feeling he has fallen out of love with me. In that case the prognosis for our marriage looks very bad. Likely he would also want to want to save the M, but does not actually WANT it. This thing has been going on for too many years with him holding it all inside hoping it will just go away. Well who the hell knows what he is thinking? But I feel like divorce is likely and almost want to rip off the band-aid already to have it over with. I don’t know what will be left of me after this purgatory.

Loved the poem, especially the ending!

[forthetrees]

I like to think that what will be left of you when the purgatory ends is the core you, vulnerable yet with a spine of steel. Empathetic but not taking any BS.

[FaithWalker]

I don’t know what will be left of me after this purgatory.

This reminded me of a quote from Lysa TerKeurst I had read a few years into my own journey.

"Broken people have seen some really crappy days so they keep things in perspective just a little more often.  After all, when you've licked the floor of hell and lived to tell about it, you tend to be a little less judgmental and a whole lot more patient and kind."

You are here!  In this safe space, where healing can happen.  There's going to be lots of refining moments, but you've got the LBS fiber running through you.  I agree with forthetrees too.  Spines of steel.  You're in good company here.

[Arcticfox]

Thank you both! I hope I will come through a little better person. S9 goes to H’s place for his first dad week today. I am in pain. H called about S17 health problem, I asked how H is doing. He told me he was in a bar recently with a friend (single man, that friend). I should not be shocked but I am. I know why the married friends weren’t invited, only the one who is free, and has lots of experience hitting on women as he usually has only short relationships.

[FaithWalker]

AF, I hope you can find something to do for you while your S9 is gone this week.  I remember the FOMO well.  And also MLCer hanging out with other "single" people as if he was already single.  It hurts, I know it does.

When I found out my MLCer was on Plenty of Fish it killed me.  But then my friend sent me this:

https://ifunny.co/video/theywaytheyalltookoffrunning-there-s-plenty-of-fish-in-the-sea-the-4zd7BKBm6?s=cl

[OffRoad]

I remember the pain of everyone is just fine with all this except me. Like I am somehow supposed to just jump up as say "OK, I've been lied to, lied about, cheated on, stolen from, verbally abused, gaslighted and abandoned, but hey I should be bringing my A game!" I was so tired of no one understanding how hard it is to have your kids go off with the "I'm so HAPPY now that I'm not with YOU" parent and you now lose part of your time with them.

I am here to tell you it gets better. You have to contribute to it getting better, but it does get better. I think a lot of us found that we had invested more into our spouses and/or family than we did in ourselves and now that needed to change. Anything your MLCer says or does really has zero to do with you in my experience. You could jump through every hoop in the book and it still would not be enough because three days later, there are some new hoops. Forget that. Find yourself. What does Arctic Fox  need? Not based on someone else fulfilling that need, but Arctic Fox fulfilling that need. It starts slow, maybe you take yourself to a movie, or out to dinner, or go somewhere with friends, or read a book. Something that nurtures you. Do you have anything like that you like to do for yourself? I drove off road, but I grant I'm an anomaly. I also crafted, colored, ghost hunted. I was unable to read though and to this day I still cannot manage a book. What would you like to do? Does anything speak to you?

And I might suggest you don't ask how your H is doing. Some things you might not want to know. Best if you leave your H to whatever he is doing and help yourself and your kids move forward on your own paths. If your H's path converges with yours somewhere down the line, you want to be in a good independent space so you can make good choices. And if his path does not converge with yours, you will still be in a good place.

[Reinventing]

Great advice.

[Arcticfox]

Hi Faithwalker, Offroad and everybody else!

Sorry that I didn’t write for such a long time. I have been feeling alternately quite empowered or real bad and in either case writing here felt overwhelming. But I read the advice weeks ago and it is indeed great.

We went to MT with H, and it was weird. In all 3 sessions (two before he moved out and the latest a month after) he has spoken about WW. I dont like that as it is supposed to be OUR therapy but otoh he pays for it and I want to know What is going on… Well she has rejected a relationship with H multiple times now, but H has gotten her to agree that they can still be friends, and taken her out acouple of times. According to H the last time was ”stressful as she didnt speak at all”. So i said she wasnt your new true love after all and he said guess not…

I asked H if he thinks we have a marital crisis or he has a personal crisis. He said he doesnt know?! A male friend of mine said probably both then (in H’s mind) or he should be able to say which one. I can kind of see that but why the hell the first time H opens his mouth he says he wants a divorce? Maybe there was something that he could have said before that point if he felt there is a problem? I heard there is a thread for the stupid reasons MLC’ers dump their spouses, well my H says i didn’t go dancing with him (years ago) and sometimes i have farted when sitting next to him on the couch. Okay then? Maybe he could have let me know back then when these things happened that they are a deal breaker for him!

He has not actually initiated a divorce or stated that he wants it any more, but wants to live separately ATM.  He says he is mentally growing living without me. I feel his personal growth comes with too high a price tag - for other people! He still keep paying the mortgage (kinda good kinda bad as that is holding me trapped in place). He wants to continue MT. I had a week of doubt why are we doing it if he hasn’t loved me for years and he already practically put our kids through a divorce, as he moved out, so What is there to salvage? But i don’t want to give up yet, i guess it is love? Because there is no sensible reason why I keep putting myself through this.

P.S. He did come by one night before the latest MC session. Told me he misses me sometimes, then suggested having sex  i said we can’t or we will both be even more messed up in the head. Too bad he hasn’t tried it again, i wouldn’t want to, i think it would break my heart to have meaningless sex with him, but i sort of wish he would keep trying…