[Thundarr]

I would wish her well and HO on about my way.  This is different in that my W is not only the woman who I have sworn a commitment to, but also the mother of my children and someone who deserves much credit for where I am today education and career-wise.  Had she said or done this before we were married or became co-parents I would have no reason to stand.  I've had all the thoughts you mentioned, my friend, but when I think about things without anger affecting my views I accept that my W is not thinking clearly and I know how much she loves the kids....and me. 

[OldPilot]

we are giving up years of our lives waiting around for someone that's just not worth our time any more. 

I think my W is worth it...........

I would wish her well and HO on about my way.  This is different in that my W is not only the woman who I have sworn a commitment to, but also the mother of my children and someone who deserves much credit for where I am today education and career-wise.  Had she said or done this before we were married or became co-parents I would have no reason to stand.  I've had all the thoughts you mentioned, my friend, but when I think about things without anger affecting my views I accept that my W is not thinking clearly and I know how much she loves the kids....and me. 

Well said Thundarr,
now get on living your life "as if" she is not coming back.
I DO agree with what you said but I think you still have some rope left to drop.

[Doc Hudson]

Maybe that's the difference.  I can honestly look back over my life and say that I am the man that I am today DESPITE my wife.  My education, my integrity, my honor, my experience, and my career, among almost everything else, were all established before I married her.   I was a grown man looking to marry a grown woman, but that's not what happened.  She was a child who just didn't invest herself in anything other than feeling "happy" and, when the time was right for her, she just pulled the plug altogether.  As she has told me quite plainly a multitude of times, she felt overly-burdened to have even been involved at all with my life, or the lives of my children.  At the time that I first heard this, it was news to me.  But now, connecting the dots, her trajectory has been pretty clear.  This is not anger, my friend, this is the truth. 

Side note:
It's interesting that I had never called anyone 'angry' in my entire life.  I had called them 'pissed off', but never 'angry'.  I now realize that this word is a label that people use as a self-defense mechanism to avoid having to deal with what is being said to them.  Life is so much easier if we just label the messenger as being 'angry' when we don't like the message.  "Bully" is a similar word that people use to label someone who scares them or is otherwise doing something that they don't like.   Just the other day, someone cut in line in front of me at the bank and I politely informed them that the line started further back.   They wheeled around and yelled "You so angry!" at the top of her lungs.  This caught the attention of the security guard and I motioned to him to give her the hook.   As she was being escorted from the building, she was calling him a bully.  This must be a generational thing, beause I see this kind of thing all the time now. 

[RivenIN2]

I have a lot of rope left to drop OldPilot and this talk really hit home, made me very uncomfortable because I to have had these thoughts but all to recently for comfort. I keep trying to put them out of my mind but they creep back in each time she spews about divorce. I am still Standing and still thinking things will eventually work out but it is still painful to read someone else that is thinking he is wasting his life and time waiting for someone that does not care about him at all. Makes me cycle uncomfortably between to opposing viewpoints. But each time I decide to Stand it makes my commitment that much stronger so I do not care, ultimately we have to live with ourselves and if we are comfortable with our decision then so be it. In a way it is the fact that we do have to live with ourselves that I am banking on to bring her around in the end, knowing her as well as I do I know the real W could not live with these decisions that have been made by the shadow self and that she will eventually want to make things better.

[BonBon]

Clearly each case is different.

The time our MLC uses to go do thier own "thing" is the time where we get to decide if, why and how we should stand.  It is a time when things have slowed down so that we can determine how much of this is the person we loved, but did not see before.  Sometimes we may realize we were blind to who they were before all this.  Sometimes we realize we weren't blind to all that much, and they have just had some sort of a breakdown if you will.  And everything in between.

I can't compare this to someone whom I've just started dating.  Dating someone means you have little to no time invested, are probably not in any sort of deep love or committment, and have not taken vows which state for better or worse.

I had a wonderful husband for 12 years.  There were problems that I did not see or did not grasp as large as they were.  But they did not mean we did not have a loving and mutually agreeable relationship before this happened. 

The last three years have been hurtful and horrible and yet, I have learned alot I needed to learn.  I would have been happy just as it was but I never thought life would be a fairy tale.  I took vows knowing one or both of us could become incapaciated or dependent at any time.  I thought about that long and hard before we got married.  I didn't imagine an MLC testing my committment but it has.  There have been times when I have wanted to walk...but I decided to see it through for me...not for him...for me.  I don't have kids...I work and can support myself...I do have a dog but other than that, I could have easily walked.  I chose not to because my vows mean something to me.  Because the 12 years before this mean something to me.  Because the thought of dating or starting a new relationship is about the very last thing on this earth I have any interest in.  I am fortunate that my H did not leave but he could have, and did mentally. 

Had I come to realize he was not the man I knew, he was an imposter, I would have left.  I believe the MLC in him is what has caused the imposter to emerge.  And it can be fixed.  He can do it if he wants to.

I am glad that I stood because now we are picking up the broken shards and trying to put it all back together.  We have a long way to go...but we are working on it individually and as a couple.  It might not have worked out this way...but I would never have known had I just thrown my hands up.  I don't judge anyone who just walks out...but I can't see why anyone would feel badly if they chose to stay, regardless of the outcome.  I'm a part of the generation who throws everything out the minute it breaks...and I don't want to be like so many others I know.

No one here or anywhere, can determine those answers for any of us.  It is ours as individuals to decide if this person is worth standing for.

Bon 

[Thundarr]

Very well said, Bon and Riven.  Each case is different, and in many ways I guess mine is pretty mild.  My W just left and didn't do anything to disrupt my time with the kids and I still see them almost every day (and could see them every day if I wished).  She didn't take anything of any value to me nor did she try to get me to bankroll her new life and I pay her nothing.  Also there's no blatant OM and may not be one at all.  It's probably about an amicable of a leaving as she could have made and my life didn't change that much with the exception of the emotional turmoil.  If the situation were different, especially like some of Doc's and my friends on LT, then I may be looking at things a different way.  And in Doc's case he has to deal with this in his face constantly and has had to rearrange much of his life around it due to his W not parenting.  Having remembered what it was like living with my W leading up to BD I can say I'm glad she moved out in many ways (her apartment was totally trashed, like 20 teenagers had a wild party there or something).  Each day is painful and I'm very tired of this whole mess I've been in for over a year but here I still am and I don't have any plans to change that any time soon.  A couple friends from here have recently decided to pursue other relationships and I wish them nothing but the best, and that may come for me sometime in the future but not any time soon.  My kids still don't accept my W's leaving and will likely reject her more than they have if she goes through with the D since they know there is no good reason for it.  If I were to start dating before they perceive the marriage as being over then I too will look like a hypocrite in their eyes and no person is worth that.  Anyway, I've wrote alot to say a little here so I'll leave it at that.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

If God lets terrible things happen at the hands of Adolph Hitler, Jerry Sandusky, Charlie Manson, etc., why would he even bother with the comparatively trivial hardships that I am facing at the hands of my wife?  I'm confused as to why would he let such evil hurt so many people but somehow, just for me, he is going to step in to stop the evil that I am faced with.  I am not saying that God doesn't step in on occasion, but I can clearly point to an overwhelming number of events where I can't see that he did.  If "letting God handle it" results in the Holocaust, I think I will do what I can to handle it myself.

The evil you face is the doubt planted by Satan. That is how the LBSer is killed off by the seeds of doubt. Is it really MLC? or not? The LBSer envies the MLCer, why is she having all the fun? Don't I deserve the fun too? Slowly but surely the LBSer loses focus and then there is no chance for survival.

There is evil and uncertainty to everything. The Holocaust was not caused by GOD. In fact he gave us all opportunity to stand up and speak out. I know that if I was in Germany at that time, I would have been shot too because I would have spoken against the regime. I have never been afraid to speak out against what I felt was wrong. GOD works in many ways, yet he never promised paradise while on this planet.

I could be killed in a car accident today. Am I planning for it? Do I start a hedonistic life-style because I may not be here tomorrow? Even if there was no MLC and my wife was doing these things, I still have the choice- to stand for my marriage or file for divorce.

"we have to live our lives as if they are not coming back" and then immediately qualify that statement by advising against finding someone else as a mate and a partner.

I am not trying to get into an argument. My aunt was married for years, no children, and then her husband died. She lived for another 16 years after he passed. She did not have another partner. She is buried right next to her husband.

Doc, I am not telling you how to live your life. However, this is a forum about standing for your marriage. If you are keeping to your vows, you don't date or pursue new partners. If you want someone new, then divorce your wife and proceed. I won't condemn you or be angry with you at all. It is your choice and your power.

I am not a hypocrite. I lead and follow the life I choose. I recognize it is my choice and there are others that chose to live their life differently. I also recognize that not all marriages will be saved and my own may still end in a divorce. The "live" your "life" means not to spend the next two years analyzing your spouse while engaged in a self-pity party. That despite all, life does go on.

Side note:
It's interesting that I had never called anyone 'angry' in my entire life.  I had called them 'pissed off', but never 'angry'.  I now realize that this word is a label that people use as a self-defense mechanism to avoid having to deal with what is being said to them.  Life is so much easier if we just label the messenger as being 'angry' when we don't like the message.  "Bully" is a similar word that people use to label someone who scares them or is otherwise doing something that they don't like.   Just the other day, someone cut in line in front of me at the bank and I politely informed them that the line started further back.   They wheeled around and yelled "You so angry!" at the top of her lungs.  This caught the attention of the security guard and I motioned to him to give her the hook.   As she was being escorted from the building, she was calling him a bully.  This must be a generational thing, beause I see this kind of thing all the time now. 

There are many labels that people affix to avoid things. I don't see you as angry. In fact you are a highly intelligent and rational person. I do not post against you or anyone else in anger. The point of our difference is based upon faith in MLC and the process. Whether one believes or does not believe is not right or wrong. The issue arises when you have one foot in each camp. You either believe in GOD or you don't. In this case, you either accept MLC or you don't. There are times when your faith waffles, but the faith is still there.

[RivenIN2]

There are many labels that people affix to avoid things. I don't see you as angry. In fact you are a highly intelligent and rational person. I do not post against you or anyone else in anger. The point of our difference is based upon faith in MLC and the process. Whether one believes or does not believe is not right or wrong. The issue arises when you have one foot in each camp. You either believe in GOD or you don't. In this case, you either accept MLC or you don't. There are times when your faith waffles, but the faith is still there.

Well said Ready well said, though I am not very religious I do find myself often with one foot in each camp when it comes to MLC and it is rough. I think I am running out of arguments though and hopefully will find some peace in my decision to Stand sooner rather then later.

[Dontgiveup]

The hypocrisy that we espouse when we tell each other and ourselves that "we have to live our lives as if they are not coming back" and then immediately qualify that statement by advising against finding someone else as a mate and a partner.  Sure, sure, we don't want anyone to rush into another bad relationship, but... quite frankly, we are giving up years of our lives waiting around for someone that's just not worth our time any more.

Live our lives as if they are not coming back is a way of encouraging the LBS to detach and get their focus off the MLCer.

My ex-wife is very much worth my time.

[Thundarr]

Perhaps we need to consider a bit of re-wording.  Maybe rather than "live your life like they are not coming back," we could change the verbiage to "Live your life as if they are not there."  Which, of course, would be true.