[Mermaid]

I wouldn't want to challenge anyone's beliefs, religious or otherwise. People with faith have a gift that gives them strength in adversity, a sense of support, hope, and destiny that agnostic/ scientific minded folk don't have. Belief in that God shows the path is a way of letting go of the desire to control. Belief in free will means that we reflect on our behaviour. But it’s not the only way to do this.
Social science shows that our choices depend on our perceptions of those choices, as well as our resources (social, cultural, economic, geographic, temporal, etc.) Neurological science and psychological research shows us that our choices are often made at an unconscious level. In other words, we make up stories about WHY we have done some thing after the event. These choices are formed on this unconscious level through our social experience. As we know, our MLCers have often suffered in the past from neglect, criticism, growing up too soon, etc. They find themselves living a life that they reject, and are unable to explain their behaviour. We have no direct access to the unconscious, but we (all of us) can observe our own behaviour, and eventually come to some conclusions about ourselves.
When we love someone, according to Jung/ Hollis and other psychologists, we project our desired image onto that person, which arises from our own life experience. For example, unconsciously we may choose someone who is like our opposite sex parent, and behave to our H in a similar way that we did to our parent (and them to us). This is why, when our spouse is in midlife and may behave badly, both partners need to grow, in order to escape the unconscious behaviour patterns of the past. We don’t just choose our partners according to our opposite sex parent, there are other factors too, plus a set of reactions that we have built to those characteristics
In my case, I chose a perfectionist, who is like my father. My H criticised me in much the same way as he was criticised by his mother. He is intolerant of imperfection, especially in himself, but in me he both carried the burden of duty (and overworked) and built his resentment of me and my inevitable failings (even when they weren’t mine!!) Now his perfectionist mask has cracked, and he can no longer go on with this persona he created. He doesn’t know what’s underneath it.
The interesting thing is that I’ve realised that my behaviour to my H mirrors my behaviour to my father; to appease, to try to please, then finally, when I feel very hurt, to get furious and rebel, while all the time wanting his approval. This is why we must also grow. We must find approval within us, it makes us stronger, more independent and mature.
In conclusion, any free will we have we gain through careful reflection on our own behaviour, within the limits of our own resources.

[Trustandlove]

A thoughtful piece, Mermaid.

[Mermaid]

I thought I would share my thoughts with you on love, based on my reading.
According to writer and therapist Andrew Marshall in “I love you but I’m not in love with you”, there are different types of love. Limerance is the first passion we feel when we fall in love. Loving attachment is long term love, and needs nurturing. Affectionate regard is caring for someone without feeling that their destinies are entwined with ours. When our MLCers say ILYBINILWY, what they mean is they have affectionate regard.
Loving attachment is fed by, physical and emotional intimacy, respect for differences, listening, sharing, generosity, supporting, shared sense of humour, and going the extra mile for your loved one. People get to the ILYB stage because of factors inside and outside the relationship. Inside the relationship are factors such as communication, how a couple resolves conflicts (not arguing is as bad as arguing destructively); how individual objectives and goals are supported, the power balance, the security gained from the relationship and self affirmation used to launch outside projects, how couples are involved in each other’s goals, and whether couples take each other for granted. Outside the relationship are self esteem and self growth issues; projects that one person wanted to achieve and hasn’t (they may see the marriage as the obstacle). (Hormones can play a part, but the andropause exists in less than 2% of the population).
To achieve love, according to Marshall, we must understand what love is, and stages of relationships, argue without being destructive, understand our partner’s language of love, play, and increase intimacy.
Another writer, Jack Ito (psychologist and relationship coach), says our feelings of love are related to: 1) how we behave toward our partner, 2) how we interpret our partner's behaviour, and 3) how well our needs are met.
If the relationship is not dead, he says there are ways of saving it based on what WE do, first of all, and not what we expect our partner to do. He says that the most successful first steps are often learning to earn your partner’s respect and decrease dependency. It is only by working on our goals that we can hope to make our lives significantly better. He suggests the following basic steps:
1. Love extra. Do more for your partner than you need to do.
2. Believe the best about your partner. If you can choose to believe that either your partner is looking forward to being with you or just doesn't care, which belief do you think will help you to feel special?
3. Be sure that your needs are being met. Can you have a smile on your face and love in your heart when you have a thorn in your shoe? Taking care of yourself and having personal ambitions that excite you will make it much easier for you to be in love and will make you a more attractive person for your partner.
4. Set personal goals and challenges that excite you or work with a relationship coach to have a steady stream of personal successes. These things will flood energy into your feelings, your personal life, and your relationship.

[Still]

Very interesting. Affectionate regard....never before has that sounded so sad. 

[Mermaid]

A quick soundbite here... Some people already realise that feelings of love are related to the production of certain chemicals, including oxytocin. There are also psychosocial components, but all feelings and thoughts have to have phsyiological components. (see : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7815095.stm)

There are a number of reasons why these feelings of love may disappear, including chronic stress and burnout. In this case, reducing stress is the key to saving love and marriage: http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/a-13-2009-02-13-voa17-68768832.html?rss=united

[pexio]

Free will is an illusion as Mermaid pointed out.  All choice is influenced and therefore NOT free.  If there were such a thing as free will there would be no need for reward and punishment and the marketing/advertising industry wouldn't exist.

Written over 100 years ago, What is Man is Mark Twain's thoughts on the notion of free will and is as relevant today as it ever was.  It's a short essay that you can read for free online here.  Try to defy the logic. 

[Mermaid]

Mark Twain was a very forward thinker, and very insightful. Thanks for the link pexio!

If you want a deep insight into free will, choice and action, try reading: "What is Agency?" by Emirbayer and Misch. I can't give you a free link, because it's still under copyright, but here is a link to an abstract online: http://www.getcited.org/pub/103358155

It's interesting because they thoroughly review all philosophical and sociological accounts and reserach into "agency" (that is, how individuals actively shape some important dimensions of their experience), which is what we would think of as free will.

[Mermaid]

Romantic love is a myth; true love is not "falling in love" (which is merely a cathexis) but about the extending of one's ego boundaries to include another, and about the spiritual nurturing of another. True love leads to growth. (M. Scott Peck, psychiatrist, "The Road Less Travelled").

 ‎"Falling in Love" and "passion" are self centred, consumerist notions of love. This is liquid love, love with no bonds, no growth, no change except extinction. Love is thrown away like yesterday's newspaper.

[agape]

Mermaid,

Would Narcissism be in that category of being in love with someone in "your own head"? He was actually looking at himself and saw this beautiful person that he was in love with. Was it pure fantasy, imagination or did he really see something that he, himself, manufactured?

[covenantkeeper]

While I found all of your posts interesting, I disagree (lovingly) with your thinking that free will is not free. I think that some might get free will and free choice mixed up. God gave us all free will in that He gave us all choice. We can listen or not listen to God. We can listen to our parents, our educators, our peers, or our spouse. Or we can turn a deaf ear to all of them.

However, we make the choice of what we are going to do; where we are going to go. We might not have it all figured out, but we make that choice rather quickly. If I remember correctly from my college days, we make decisions in about 3 seconds. We might not have all the particulars worked out in our heads, but we tend to lean in one direction within 3 seconds. Then after having more time to consider this decision we need to make, we formulate our plan to move forward.  That's what God has given us. He created us. He gave us brains and expects us to use them. He gave us the free will to make a choice.

Are we influenced by people, our upbringing, our environment? Of course we are! But, we still have free will to make a choice. Our decisions are ours alone. Even if someone has a gun to our head, we still make a choice in what to do. Go along with the gun toting person, or refuse to do what they demand from us and risk being killed. It's still our choice.

This is why I have told my spouse that his actions/ decisions he has made are his to take ownership of. However, I know that I am the reason he made those decisions. He could have chosen differently, but he didn't. And I could have paid more attention to the influence I had on him, but I didn't. I do now.

So, I had to make a choice (my free will to make this choice or not to) to change those things about me that needed to be changed. I had to take an honest look at who I really was. When I went to God and told Him I was a good person, He said, no, not so much. Boy, did that hurt! But, as always, God was right. And over this past year, I have slowly made changes in myself....in the way I think, in the way I react to others, what is important and not so important, what battles I will fight and what battles I will refuse to engage in.

Yes, we people of faith have Someone to go to who helps and supports us. I honestly don't know how anyone lives without that support. For me personally, if I didn't have God, I would have cashed in this life a long time ago.