[Dontgiveup]

I did not find it encouraging or discouraging, so my comments will be affirmations of a couple of specific things Hope for Zen and LisaLives pointed out.

I agree with what Hope for Zen says about hurting others and not finding your inner peace.

LisaLives pointed out Dr Hollis is committed because he regrets some of his midlife choices.  I made the comment earlier that "aligning one's soul with one's life" should not lead to regret.  MLC behavior typically leads to regret.

Like Hope for Zen pointed out, MLCers in the emotional state they are in, can twist anything to justify what they are doing.

[LisaLives]

Aligning one's soul can lead to painful experiences, and regret for not handling the process well.  I think what Dr. Hollis has committed his work to is helping people live more consciously, so their souls are always "right," thus avoiding MLC.  He does not claim MLC is good or right, only that if we do not live consciously we bury too much that bites us in the butt at midlife.  That's what happened to him.  So yes, it can lead to regret.  He is not sorry about where he is only that he did not and did not know how to take a better path.   

And I think that's what I think about my H sometimes.  He is taking a road to a place he has to go, and I think he is sorry for all the destruction he's causing even now, but he can't see a better road.  It's like tearing down trees to build an interstates through the forest, when if he had been more conscious all along, he could see the paths that are already there.   

He talks about the fear of facing oneself at midlife a lot, that is the fear that MLCers run from.  Embracing conscious living means facing those fears EVERY day, not waiting until crisis.  Sorry, I really do like him, and if you've ever read Getting the Love you Need, Keeping the Love you Have and Giving the Love that Heals, by Hendrix, they are on the same thinking.  All really good books! 

[arp1]

My W says she wants to divorce me because we are no longer on the same path.  She is on a spiritual journey for
self-actualization and I can't join her since I will have to follow my own path to fulfill my own calling.  She always has been a searcher for meaning but with MLC, she has gone off without me.  She tells me that I need to find my own path because I am the one who is lost. 

It is true.  Compared to her, I am not ambitious.  I tend to draw pleasure and satisfaction from simple things.  I don't have to
go on a spiritual quest in order to find my life worthwhile.  In the past, she thought we complemented each other because we were different.  But now she would rather have a more like-minded companion for her journey.  She may have a point.  Sometimes I wonder if we are already thousands of miles apart and I am too stubborn to see it.

I've read many articles which explain midlife reassessment as a soul's attempt to align one's life with his true nature/gift so he can thrive as someone he is meant to become.  Drastic changes are inevitable and some aspects of the old life will be discarded for the new birth.

Has anyone heard this kind of argument from your MLC spouse?  What are your thoughts on this?  Your comments would be appreciated.

I haven't watched the video yet exiled, but what you you say has come from your W is something similar to what I've been hearing from my W. I've also read about this in Andrew G Marshall's book, "ILYBINILWY - 7 steps to saving your relationship"

Like you, I think I derive pleasure and satisfaction from simple things in life. I'm more down-to-earth, introspective, pragmatic and not a dreamer. My W is artistic, a dreamer, people-focused and gregarious. She's criticised me for saying I don't need to re-evaluate my life after my parents died. She always wants "more", wants people around her, talking until the early hours over wine, dreaming and she seems to derive a lot of her self-worth from her career and caring for others. We are a case of opposites attract I think; but we compliment each other and that's why our relationship has worked (up to now). Now it seems I'm too different. Her Uni friends that came to our wedding told her that they couldn't see how it would work because I am so quiet and therefore we were so different, but she didn't care apparently. The ex-bf OM that came out of the woodwork is more like her than I am so it seems. 

[MelanieB]

So confused about the Hollis stuff for the following reasons:

1)  If this MLC was a search for deeper meaning in life, somehow then I would have thought that the search would be a bit more to the right on the moral compass, you know, less lying and deception than during his previous "unhappy" life with me.  But no, it appears that the search for true meaning in one's life begins with massive lies, betrayal and deception of the largest type.  Interesting thought...and all this ends well and he becomes this much better person than he was when he was with me, is that correct?  So there's no chance that this man's "real self" was a whining cheating lazy jerk, and he's just self-actualizing to get there in short order?  Wow, I could have helped the xH with that one.  He really didn't have nearly as far to go as he thought- 
2)  Secondly why, if they are on a search for "themselves", do none of them exhibit charitable traits, you know, where they sacrifice for others, isn't that what the higher meaning of life is all about?  Seems that their search is to reach the highest plateau of narcissism.  Yes, that they've got a shot at-

OK, I've read back over my post and it is all negativity.  MLCers are very hurtful nasty people, and even after 2 yrs and spending massive amounts of time at the gym to get him out of my head, still have plenty of anger to let out. 

[LisaLives]

I really do encourage you all to read some of his stuff.  If you think about all of us being here for some "greater good" or purpose, we have to constantly question what we are doing to make sure that we are on OUR paths and that is really hard for some people, and especially in some families. 

I always think of my favorite Emerson piece--we had to memorize this in high school:

"These are the voices which we hear in solitude, but they grow faint and inaudible as we enter into the world. Society everywhere is in conspiracy against the manhood of every one of its members. Society is a joint stock company in which the members agree for the better securing of his bread to each shareholder, to surrender the liberty and culture of the eater. The virtue in most request is conformity. Self-reliance is its aversion. It [That is, conformity.] loves not realities and creators, but names and customs.

"Whoso would be a man must be a nonconformist. He who would gather immortal palms must not be hindered by the name of goodness, but must explore if it be goodness. Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of our own mind. Absolve you to yourself, and you shall have the suffrage of the world. I remember an answer which when quite young I was prompted to make to a valued adviser who was wont to importune me with the dear old doctrines of the church. On my saying, What have I to do with the sacredness of traditions, if I live wholly from within? my friend suggested--'But these impulses may be from below, not from above.' I replied, 'They do not seem to me to be such; but if I am the devil's child, I will live them from the devil.' No law can be sacred to me but that of my nature. Good and bad are but names very readily transferable to that or this; the only right is what is after my constitution, the only wrong what is against it. A man is to carry himself in the presence of all opposition as if everything were titular and ephemeral but he. I am ashamed to think how easily we capitulate to badges and names, to large societies and dead institutions. Every decent and well-spoken individual affects and sways me more than is right. I ought to go upright and vital, and speak the rude truth in all ways...  Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
— Ralph Waldo Emerson

MLC happens when people, mostly for FOO issues tamp down their souls and at midlife the costumes become so heavy that they shed all of it, trying to find their true soul.  He does not argue that MLC is good or right, only that sometimes it has to happen.  I think my H has spent his whole life failing to make his parents happy, though he has done all the right things.  This is his attempt to run from it all, part of it is trying to make them happy, but at the end he is going to have to come to the realization that his happiness does not depend on pleasing anyone but himself, if he gets there... 

[Synicca]

i thought I would chime in here too..

I am ALL about reflecting and finding inner peace! my H on the other hand has always been selfish
all about him blah blah blah....my question here is...If someone going through MLC never see's that
it is all about themselves and becoming the person they were meant to be...how do they ever change?

at what point do they stop and say " hey, I'm being a total ass here, maybe I should look at myself now"

Where does it come from? They run and run from ALL truths...and maybe run forever and never look at
themselves...I guess what I'm trying to say here, is at what point does the MLCer look within? what
makes them do that? If they feel like the OP is better and happier for them. or that "they love the single life"
Never show to much sadness...where does the change come from???

I know I'm blabbing here...sorry!

[Trustandlove]

Just a bit of a chime-in here. I've read Hendrix, and like him....

I guess the only thing I would say to the bit about the FOO tamping down the soul and now the costume becoming so heavy is that in my case I am the one with FOO issues; H grew up in a stable, loving and happy household.  Perhaps not materially well-off, but that is all I can think of.  By that definition it should be me doing this. 

I do see a lot of its point, but when the new life is about only what the MLCer wants it misses the point.  What they are doing is running away, rather than actualising.  Those MLCers are going "whew -- the problem was spouse.  Got rid of her.  So by definition new person will fulfill all my dreams because we'll be starting with a clean slate and we'll both do everything right."  That's not self-actualising. 

[LisaLives]

Just remember the crisis is not the self-actualization part, the crisis is avoiding that because it's too painful.  Hollis talks a lot about projecting and fear.  And some of this is me, because I would have to go back over is stuff, but I would argue that my H has spend his whole life trying to live for his parents and fearing what he wants because it would never be good enough.  People in MLC fear themselves, they fear they will ever be ENOUGH, so they keep looking for external sources to fill their needs.  And some never do get out of the tunnel because they never face it, and some do, and they come to the peaceful place, that is the self-actualization part.  The crisis is running from the inevitability that they have to do SOMETHING because they are suffering from dis-ease... 

I have heard MLC referred to as a narcissistic temper tantrum many times and Hollis says narcissism is the opposite of individuation.    At the root of narcissism is insecurity and that is what happens, rather than face the self, they wrap it in narcissistic supply to protect the fragile self.  And it doesn't matter how good families look on the outside, people can ignore their true selves for lots of reasons--they may be gay, they may not but in their heart really wanted to pursue some other line of work the family would never understand, they may not have wanted kids, but had them because it was the right thing to do, we can go off our paths in so many ways that we think we can handle until at midlife it all snowballs and comes after us like the Grinch running from himself... 

[Rookie13]

Trustandlove, good post. This type of MLC is a "disease" of rational thinking. People can write all the books they want on it. It won't change a thing. There's X amount of people on this site and NONE of them can report that their MLCer has "changed" for the better. Most, if not all, will tell horror stories and that their MLCer is heading towards rock bottom, not some "higher"/"better" place.

If finding you inner self/soul means abandoning all you once new ( including kids) and the doctors who write these books see that as healthy path for the MLC person then it is just brain washing to sell books/videos.

Get Dr Hollis in this forum! Lol.

Yes, a healthy mind can use those kind of books to "improve" one self  or to recognize "more" of your surroundings so to speak but a person in a "destructive" MLC like this forum will never be mentioned in those books unless the person writing it is in the middle of one themselves and "glorifying"/"justifying" extremely poor behavior. ( which I actually have read articles on in which a woman was trying to get some backing on her reasoning for taking a job across country and leaving her children behind thinking they could still have a good relationship. She was feeling she was in a midlife and was trying to start a new trend on "abandonment" being ok! Lol)

No person would write a book after going through this type of MLC and glorify it period.

Please note: I do not follow any types of marriage books/MLC books, videos etc. As I know MLC to be a "disease" and the only way out is time or some good cognitive therapy which as we all know is useless as the MLCer "does not need therapy"! Lol.

Like it was stated above a few times. Regret will happen to most if not all in this type of MLC.

[StandandDeliver]

I think my H has spent his whole life failing to make his parents happy, though he has done all the right things. 

I see this trait in my H too. He has been "good", trying to prove himself, to his father in particular, his whole adult life. He finally achieved quite a high level of success, had 2 children and nice (if I say so myself) wife, a good life, but his F still finds ways to put him down or at least downplay H's achievements in an almost competitive way. I guess he got to a point where he wondered why he even bothered and if he had been chasing all the wrong things his whole life. The fact that his Dad seemed to like me, did add to the questioning about why he married me. Of course our relationshipe predated my knowing his F, but H's issues are such a big confusing mess that I think it just became easier to run from it all than to work it all out. I don't know if he would have been capable of working it out without a crisis tbh. I hope he can work through it some day.

I see a lot of sense in the psychology expounded here. I know we don't like to hear anything that seems to  imply that in some cases it is better for the marriage to end and none of us want it to be our own marriage where that is the case. The thing is there is no guarantee  - MLC will hopefully end, our MLCers will hopefully not get stuck, hopefully they will be better people. But we just can't know about whether they will ultimately return. The only "known" right now is that they are on this journey alone and must go through it...


Rookie

NONE of them can report that their MLCer has "changed" for the better

RCR, Stayed and HB all state that their spouses have changed for the better and also that they themselves have done so too. They claim that their marriages are better than before. There are people on here whose spouses are starting to come to the "other end" of the tunnel and there are glimpses of a desire to be better in them. The site is not very old and as the average MLC takes 2-5 years, it is unlikely that we would be hearing too many success stories yet. However a lot of us (maybe even me) may give up waiting before our MLCers come out of it - so they may come out better people, but it will not specifically affect us (except if we have children together it should make communication between us and the care for our children more of a priority for the MLCer)