[niff naff]

Just thought about something my boy who is 14 said, I was talking about his dad, and my son said "Mum, let him go and work out what he has done in his own time, stop hoping you can push him there.

Out of babes.

[LeaveThePastBehind]

Star, they tend to choose the opposite of what we were.

You need to stop beating yourself, physical features do not mean a person as more or less of what truly matter: moral fibre, strong sound values, warmness, love.

I agree. I don't put much emphasis on the Op - this however - I have not even seen the Op in person or in pictures - I don't even think of Op, really - but my mom said they're exaggeratedly and sadly gigantic.   It doesn't really matter but I think he's loving it and I totally think he's playing out his mom issues this way.   Just like the article says. I find it odd that they usually choose the opposite of us and the op is usually like they're mom.  


I was so not like his mom.

[OnMyJourney]

..you can see the difference in us...and it is better but there is still great sadness. I still cannot see that my life will be what I want unless he comes home.....I will live well, I am happy and have many joys in my life...but I doubt this will change much as I go forward....for like so many...my family is gone...what I worked for, what I would die for is not there any more....and there is nothing I can do about it.

XYZ, this brought me to tears.  I feel the same way.

Prayers to you
OMJ

[dbpb]

The post from xyz above could have been written by me!
For all intents and purposes my life is good, but the sadness of being divorced, an unwanted divorce on my part, remains in the background.
Have been divorced long time, and ex and I get along fairly well and he seems quite comfortable around me. However he is still with OW, living together for many years, but have not married.
I know people say the best revenge is living a good life, but I do not feel that way, because I do have what I consider a good life. My best revenge would be for him and OW to break up, whether or not he would ever return to me! Since he, the OW and myself are in our mid 60's, and they have been together many years, the odds are against it.
I just cannot stand the thought that she won. I hate that I have been put in the position of having to share my kids/grandkids with this woman! Yes, it has been many years, but I am still resentful.
What do you do--you continue to get a life and move on/go on the best you can. Live like they aren't coming back--because that is what I have had to do!
It can be done.
Didn't mean to hijack this thread, but not all relationships can be reconcilled, no matter how bad you want it.

[OldPilot]

When I tell women the truth about the secret reasons men leave, it is disorienting. It shakes the foundations of their own world, how they have come to understand their own identity as a woman, wife, and mother. It also rings true for them and a lot of what has been going on makes sense and falls into place.

Seems like this is the way you interpret what Jed Diamond has said, your comments show that you are disoriented by the article.

Look at the way he finishes the article

Once you know what is really going on, his desire to leave can be seen as part of the healing process.
Even if he leaves, that doesn't have to be the end.
Leaving can be seen as another step along the way to understand the past, reclaim the present, and build a new and better future.

And finally

Finding the right guide isn't easy. Just because a person has the right credential doesn't mean they've been over this territory enough to guide others.
Be tenacious. Be creative. Be willing to make mistakes.
But never give up.

I have to admit I think a lot of Jed Diamond, I have read a few of his books and believe it or not they speak to me.
More about the way I feel and my own journey.
Of course I am a man.
Not in a mid life crisis but certainly in the middle or later middle of my life.

I believe this article is spot on and fits in with what I have learned about the way we pick our spouses.
The childhood wounds are real.
I think even for healthy males (can I say like myself?) they ring true.

I guess the only thing its seems like JD is saying is

TRUST THE PROCESS.

[superdog]

Hi old pilot,

So sorry to hijack, but would be very grateful if you could read my original thread and let me have the benefit of your thoughts.

I haven't heard from stayed in a while and I'm a bit disorientated.

I loved this article and agree with your final comment.

Sd x

[Sassyone]

I agree with OP.  I think a lot of Jed Diamond and have read a lot of his articles, etc.  I think he gives a great perspective from a males point of view.  My H reads him too and agrees. 

Men in MLC are really really dealing with a lot of shame, FOO issues (usually their mothers) and they turn away from their spouses.  Their OW are usually the exact opposite of us and more like their mother's.  They are looking for nurturing that they were denied or didn't receive.

For example, H's OW is shorter, dark hair, smaller boy body frame.  I am tall, blonde hair, big you know whats . . . we are total opposites.  She resembles more of H's family and his mother . . . she tried to take care of everything for him, just like his mom does for his dad still to this dad (ewww not my type of relationship). 

I think if you re-read Jed's article you can clearly see that MLC is all about them with very little to do about us.  Of course we can all better ourselves and our marriages and that's great and we should, but when you break it down, they are regressing in time to fix issues in their childhood, usually abondment issues, lack of maternal love, not feeling good enough or able to show emotions, abuse, the list can go on and on.  The same can be said about female MLC, I just honestly believe females are less likely to have affairs to medicate themselves.

Jed says it best:  Be tenacious. Be creative. Be willing to make mistakes.
But never give up.

Hugs,

Sassy

[Dontgiveup]

Men in MLC are really really dealing with a lot of shame, FOO issues (usually their mothers) and they turn away from their spouses.

I understand Jed Diamond writes about men....but women in MLC are dealing with the same thing.  The bursting forth of the Shadow......the shame and fear that is MLC.

I think if you re-read Jed's article you can clearly see that MLC is all about them with very little to do about us.  Of course we can all better ourselves and our marriages and that's great and we should, but when you break it down, they are regressing in time to fix issues in their childhood, usually abondment issues, lack of maternal love, not feeling good enough or able to show emotions, abuse, the list can go on and on.

I very much agree.......childhood issues and regression. 

The same can be said about female MLC, I just honestly believe females are less likely to have affairs to medicate themselves.

I am not sure if women in MLC are less likely to have affairs or not, but my friend and I are both convinced (because of our own situations I'm sure) that women in MLC are more likely than male MLCers to divorce.....or at least divorce quickly.

[Sideways]

XYZ-
Thanks so much for sharing this article...WOW...It sure resonated with me and seems right on with my H.  I have said a few tomes , that I felt, H felt, that I abandoned (emotionally) him...like his mom did as a child.  It was so helpful to read this.

I agree with others here...I think you are wore out...and it catches up.  Then we cycle..

I see you as such a woman of strong faith X...I think you ARE a light in the darkness of your H's storm.  You have grown so much!!  You are a strong woman, just not always able to see that you are!

Love and Light - S

[Trustandlove]

This is something I think about a lot, and have written about from many angles....  for years, for most of this crisis I have wondered what on earth could have been missing for my H, as he had parents who loved him and showed it. 

My MIL wasn't a cold and uncaring person.  But perhaps his being the apple of her eye had another side.  My MIL, despite being affectionate and always having dinner on the table, etc., perhaps wasn't able to do the taking care of in other ways.  For instance, she never learned to drive, so always depended on FIL (or perhaps for a short time before he went to university, H) to drive her place.  Of course she used the buses well, but still.    That's just one example. 

So in some ways MIL needed taking care of herself, and perhaps that came through in that she wasn't able to take care of H more.  Not that she didn't take care of H -- that is why this seems so convoluted to me.  Perhaps he just needed, or THOUGHT he needed, more than she could give.  She wouldn't have been the one to exhaustively research educational things, for example, of one of her children needed something special.

I'm the opposite -- I'm the super-fixer.  Medical problem?  I'll know more than the doctors before long.  And so on.  Kids' education?  I'll look at more schools than anyone else.  I'm overdoing it a bit here, but I think you know what I mean.  I'm not helpless; she, despite being loving and kind, was always a bit so.  Or at least I got that impression. 

I may be grasping at straws here; I know this is a big part of it for H, just still not sure exactly how.  I know that once, in the first year after he left, when I was very ill, he told me that I had become ill because I wanted him to take care of me.  So somewhere there he was rebelling against that bit, I guess he wanted to be taken care of more, but of course he won't let me do so. 

I have no idea what this OW is like so I don't know where she fits on this scale; does she do that kind of taking care of?  Is that the idea, is that what they are looking for?  I can see where I and the kids just represent things HE needs to do to take care of people; does she ask for nothing?  I see I'm not making a lot of sense here; I'm working this out in writing.

Anyway, very interesting topic.