[Standing in Patience]

Am curious, when have you used as truth darts? Was it helpful?

Admittedly, I have been responding to his very infrequent emails, texts, phone calls with my hopes of reconciliation, suggesting that he is having a mlc, listening to his rewriting of history (h keeps saying I'm rewriting history), saying the children are adapting well to the situation (they aren't; they are just coping).

I am afraid of monster and also the possibility that it has or will further cement his justification of abandoning his wife, children and family and/or that he will stay in the tunnel longer.

Yes, yes, I am doing better now and mostly dim/dark except for children and finances. But I would like to respond with truth darts. I really would like to be able to walk the fine tightrope properly. Or is it too late? Maybe I should have done it all along? Suggestions?

[limitless]

Hi Standing,
You and I are about on the same timeline.  My BD was May of 2010.
Truth darts.....hmmmmm.  Yes.  I threw some.  Early on....when my H and I were actually talking.  No.  We weren't actually talking.  I was begging and pleading and trying to convince him of the errors of his ways.  He would stay on the phone (I can't really understand why) - most likely - convincing himself how right he had been to get away from me.  These "conversations" were truly a waste of time...and got nowhere.

Actually, I think it was too early for me to be throwing any truth darts.  Just as it is too early for you....in my opinion.  Truth darts are for later (I think) when they are starting to have some moments of clarity and they are open for a truth dart - here or there.

When you respond to his texts or attempts at communication - do not suggest he is having an MLC.  Stay away from that subject like the plague.  Do not lie to him.....telling him that they children are adapting well to the situation.  You don't need to lie about this.  If he asks how they are....just merely say "It's tough...but they are coping."  But, only if he asks.  Don't offer it.

Try not to worry about cementing his justification of abandoning his wife and kids.  Honestly, I don't think they need any help with that one.  I haven't said "boo" to my H in over 6 months (only responding, when he contacts) and he's still "mad" at me.  Honestly, he's still mad at himself.....just doesn't want to admit it.

Your h will get through the tunnel at his own (snail's) pace.  Sorry about that.  It drives me crazy, too, if I allow it to.  It's just the way it has to be.

Regarding truth darts.....there will be time for that.  Trust me on this one.  When it comes to MLC....that's one thing that there is plenty of....TIME.  Don't worry that it is too late.

Just understand, your Truth Darts will not help guide him through the tunnel ANY faster.  Honestly, even though they deserve a few truth darts....here and there....it is better if they come from a different source than their LBS.  (That doesn't mean you should plant truth darts from other sources).  Trust me.....there are other people in the world who look at your H and think "WTF?"  Some maybe even close enough to him to ask him.  He will, most likely, avoid them - after they ask him....but, deep down inside, it will be there eating at him.  It's like an Intervention for an addict or alcholic.  No intervention is a failure.  Even if the alcoholic runs away and denies he/she has a problem......the truth darts they get are still there....deep inside....eating at them.  (Interventions are usually moderated by dis-interested 3rd parties.....with family and friends in attendance - but who actually say very little). 

If you want to throw a truth dart in....here or there....think it through really carefully.  If it pops into your head - in response to something he has said or done....most likely - you shouldn't say it.  He doesn't trust what you think or say right now, anyway.

Take care.....just understand that you are not keeping him or helping him through the tunnel.  He's really got to navigate this one...all by himself.

Hugs,

L

[Foxberry]

Dear SIP,

I threw so many truth darts at my H during BD2 at Easter that he probably looked like a piece of swiss cheese!!!  Did it do any good? Absolutely not...       These were truths that any person would have taken on board e.g. I wanted H to tell me he'd made a 'mistake' would he?  No... of course if he'd been coming back to make our marriage work, he would of course have said he'd made a mistake and that he loved me more than anything else in the world... He didn't.....     I think the truth darts we throw are from our perspective of hurt, betrayal and total frustration... but if they knew the "truths" that were were saying, THEY would be saying them to us not us to them? I hope that makes sense...especially from me...had a really bad weekend and missed him an awful lot...why? "Truth" is I don't know....

Truth - is perception of a given situation - one person sees it one way, one person another....I think at the moment our H's don't want to see the truth of what they have done to us as that would cause them pain and they certainly don't put themselves in the way of guilt, pain or remorse.....

Sorry SIP - I'd throw a shop full of darts if it would make my H "wake up" and see the "truth" of what he's done to me, his lovely Son and to himself...

Love and hugs
Fox   xxx

[Dontgiveup]

SIP

This is simply my perspective.....

I think many times the motivation behind truth darts is one of two things.  The LBS is either defending themselves, or hoping the MLCer will "see" the error of their ways.  If it's the latter, the hope is there that the MLC nightmare will just end.....the MLCer will "wake up".  I have talked to several LBS after they have thrown a truth dart or two.....and it seems the LBS in many cases have been more frustrated after throwing them.....because the MLCer either dismisses them, or goes into Monster.  As I've read many times on another site, "MLC is not a short term issue."

Here is a good reminder from the article on Acceptance.
"If your goal is speed, it will fail. But most of you will need to learn that through experience."

[Standing in Patience]

L and F,

Thank you for responding. Today I am having a "woulda, coulda, shoulda" moment. What if I could have gone back in time and rescripted my responses the h much better and in the right older. Could have stopped the EA from going to PA (I know better but maybe there was an iota of a chance)? Would he not run or perhaps a better word is 'escaped"?

L, sorry I wasn't clearer before, it was h saying that the children are doing better after h separated from us. Yes, there was less anger, tension in the house. I believe now it was h way of justifying his action to leave. He had to create the situation to give himself enough pressure to "move" on his beliefs.

I sense some feelings of guilt on his part (little a tiny little voice tells me this when I hear the tone in his speech and emails/text) now. I want to tell him that he can open up to me but I doubt now is a good time to do this. I believe needs to feel ready and to hopefully tell me down the road life is not all blissful being on the other side of the country without your wife and children. But right....it's still all about him.

Thank you all for being there for each and all of us. I wish I meet you all before.. before we needed to know and understand the mlc does exist. I only wish my h went the toupee, red convertible, skydriving route. Really, I think I would have gone mad by now without you all here. Just knowing there are others in similar yet infinitely unique unto their own situations keeps me calm and not lamenting to the children about this unbelievable sitch. Sorry we are all in this together. But if I can help just one other LBS out there, then I have done one good deed today.

I was saved at 13, lapsed for many years but now comforted to know He is with me now and always. He is there with me morning, noon and night (and even during the wee hours in the morning when I should be sleeping but praying).

[NewBeginnings]

Hi Foxberry ~ I totally agree with what you said about perception.  My H has said a couple of times, he sees things one way and I see it another.  My way is right of course because what he is saying is a lie.  He is trying to justify to himself what he has done and blaming me for it all.  I'm not saying I don't have things to work on for myself because I do but the things he comes out with are not true.   Our H's don't want to see the truth because they have betrayed us and so my H made up all these lies about me.  And I truly think he believes those lies now.   When he does this to me, that makes me throw truth darts right back at him but it gets us no where.  We are both just angry.  So that is what I am working on now with myself.  I need to stop reacting and just tell him I am sorry he feels that way. 

A couple of months ago I had told my H that he has issues from his childhood that he needs to face.  I got no reaction at the time but last week when we got into an argument that he started, you know, the blame game as to why he left, he actually brought up that comment I made.  He said, well you said I have issues from my childhood.  I said you do.  It was like he was kind of telling me he kind of knew it.  He definately has him thinking about it.

[limitless]

Standing,
Sorry if I mis-understood.

I think, what I read from your posts, is that you still believe that YOU can help him.
I get that.
I feel the same way...many times.
If only....my H trusted me.  If only....my H would "listen" to me.  I understand more about what he is going through than he does.  Right?

Actually, if I truly believe that.....I understand nothing.

We cannot be our spouses "savior."  They write about being the lighthouse.  Being the beacon that they MLCer is attracted to.  (I don't feel too much like a beacon right now.  If my MLCer is attracted to me.....I don't see it.  I don't feel it).

We are not meant to be their saviors. 

They can only save themselves.

I think, sometimes, what you are alluding to.  If only I had been more aware of what was going on.  If only I knew then what I know now.  If only I had reacted in a different way....maybe he wouldn't have "fallin in love" with someone else.

Rubbish!  Absolute rubbish!

There's nothing you could have done.  Nothing you could have said.  I know that you really don't believe that you could have kept the EA from becomming a PA!  These are things that are not within your control.  None of these things were caused by you.  Nothing that you could have done about it.

I think you may still believe that you have some culpability in your H's MLC. 

Do not allow this thinking to get into your head!

Did we do things that may have lead to the demise of our marriage.  Sure!  We are human, after all.  But, rest assured, much of what your H is going through is due to things he experienced WAY before he met you (unless you met at 2 years old).

If he had married someone else.....he'd still be in MLC.  He missed some major portion of his maturing process. 

One truth dart I threw at my H (back in February, when I found out about his EA/PA???).....I told him.  If he had married and divorce me, back when he was 20 years old - and then married his first wife......and had 3 kids and a mortgage.....he would have contacted ME - just like he contacted her.  The only difference is/was that I would never have gotten involved with a married man.  (And I would be on my second divorce - either).  Who knows if that made any sense to him.

Believe me when I say this.  This is not your fault.  There was/is nothing you can do (or could have done) to change ANYTHING regarding your H's MLC.  Nothing.

There isn't a right word, or action, that you can take that can move him along the tunnel any faster.  (You can, though, interfere and delay the trip).

I think the longer the MLCer can focus on the LBS being the cause of their unhappiness...the longer they can avoid facing reality.  So, I stay out of it.  I do nothing.  I let him be.

Hope this helps.

L

[Foxberry]

Limitless,

Brilliant response as per usual!  I actually read your post and tried to apply it to me...really helps to know that even if I hadn't said this, or done that, or argued, shouted, reasoned, cried, begged, or behaved in a more concillatory manner etc., etc., it wouldn't have stopped H seeking this OW out and having an affair....

I do STILL struggle with that I'm afraid...I actually believe that if I'd been more ego stroking, more adoring and had more intimacy (as he put it) with H     then maybe he wouldn't have gone looking for 'it' elsewhere??? Am I wrong to think this? I don't know, I do know that H has done an extremely good job on me of making me feel a failure and that he is much happier and fulfilled now with his new family and his new life.....    

Struggling...but sending lots of love to you
Fox xx

[Little Chief]

You know, regarding truth darts, I was told I threw one the other day.  I had sent an email to H telling him I was grateful for all the hard work he did to support me and the kids.  I didn't see it as a truth dart, just a seed.  Planted, I hope, in fertile ground to grow and mature later. 

I did mean it.  He's taken good care of us.  I was surprised when he responded via email "no problem", but even more surprised when he brought it up again on the phone later that night, thanking me for the "nice email". 

Right now, I'm so sick and tired of the 800 lb gorilla in the room with us all the time (OW, hee hee), so I've just decided to keep it light and kind.  I'm working on not analyzing every little thing that happens, hind sight will be a better indicator, anyway.  I've got my suspicions, but that's really all they are.  I'm going forward with eyes open, and ears shut (as he lies like a dog), and coming to terms with the reality that my old M is dead, and I've got to live every moment for me and my kids, and let him flap in the wind till he figures himself out.  He doesn't need me telling him he's being an a$$, I can see he knows that.  He's obviously stressed, moreso than before BD.  He doesn't need me telling him that either.

I would say, if the topic comes up and you aren't in the middle of a huge fight, go ahead and toss a little one and see where it takes you.  But the moment has to be right.  A truth dart thrown in anger will likely turn around on you.  Just my $0.02.

[Silmarion]

Truth - it is a pain as it is in the eye of the beholder.  I know my truth is completely different from H in many ways.  That's what often caused conflict when we were together.   I am able to swallow my pride and see that some of my behaviours def contributed to our marriage difficulties.  However, my H is very manipulative.  He is an excellent wriggler.  He tried to persuade me the affair isn't really one 'cos he'd already left and it just happened...  that, my friend def needed a wapping great reality check truth dart.   So I retorted with something like "hmmm....I don't know anything that just happens.  All I know is in order for it to happen someone has to do something.  So, you are responsible for your bit."   That caused more uncomfortable shifting but in the end, he owned up!  x