[LifeGoesOn]

But we are so happy....we are soulmates!! 

Schmoopies!

[offmyrocker]

This is what RCR  said in my coaching regarding my h wanting to be friends with me:

It is a game for him. He’s trying to get you to be a friend to him while refusing to be one to you. What he’s really trying to get you to be is a buddy. That’s a friend without commitment and no boundaries. Be a true friend. Visit him in the hospital, feed his cat while he’s in jail—or bail him out if that won’t be enabling. True friends don’t abuse the privileges of friendship. That is something you can tell him when he says that he is trying to get you to be his friend.

[Thundarr]

Interesting to see how everyone is learning to walk the friendship line.
3 years in, I have found a comfortable place, for me.

Early on, H told me it was the friendship that was most important part of the R w/ho, that she should move in and would be a good influence on our kids, loved to cook and clean, and would enhance our M all around.  Duh, it was easy to draw a boundary there! But the "how to be" with him was a bit harder. 
Now, I am pretty dark with him but I am there for him under all the 'stuff', but won't deal with his dramas.  For example, when he was complaining to me about trying hook up internet service with the "idiots from the phone co", I drew a line and said "Don't come here pretending everything is ok and that I will listen to your tales of woe about your nesting and shacking up with OW."  But on the other hand, When he sent me an obit from an old friend of his, I immediately called him, and listened to him talk about the guy. I knew I was the only one who knew what this man meant to him. I am sure ho sympathized, but our unspoken knowledge is so much deeper. Overall, I am cordial, like i am with a neighbor or the cable guy, ya know, nothing too personal, but if 'true connection' ( I don't know what to call that profound connection that binds us underneath all the crap) is needed, I am there.  (Life, death, illness,....rock bottom)

"I will not have a relationship with you while you are involved with OW"

Yeah mine said why couldn't he have two families? Why couldn't he spend time with her for half the week, and me for the other half??

Wonder why  that couldn't work for me?? Don't think it would have worked for her either!

He was crazy to even think it could, but then yes, he was crazy!!

LGO, my H also said to me during BD time that, if I was willing, OW could live with us and "sleep at the bottom of the bed"!  He told me that I would come to love her just like he had. He was serious.

You really can't make this stuff up.  They're sooooo bonkers.

TMHP

M  58
H  60
D  22
M  38 yrs.
BD  Jan. '11
H living with OW

Ladies, these have to be the most insane things I have ever heard!!!   I thought my W came up with some off-the-wall crazy things, but those mostly had to do with her "plan that she had meticulously planned over the last 2 years."  The plan that did not include her having money, a place to stay or a car she could afford.  The same plan that, now executed, has her stranded in another town in the ghetto with not enough gas money to make more than one trip here before payday and had her sleeping at her parents' last week because she couldn't afford to drive home (our D was with her so that WAS true). 

But, I could not imagine if she had brought up moving an OM in with us!!  What, do these H's watch 'Sister Wives" or something?  It makes you wonder if Mormons who believe in polygamy go through this.  Hmmm...   There I go on the religious connection again.  Just think, if they could just add a couple more W's then everything would work out.  No one would have a problem with that, would they?  And, hey, if the OW wore the same size you'd effectively double your wardrobe!! (That's the same joke I use about homosexuality).

I hope no one takes offense at my early-morning jab at humor.  I could never keep up with Mamma, LC or the rest but I try.

[limitless]

Thundarr,
Yes.  They (the MLCers) don't really think too clearly about things.
My H, when he left, planned to get an apartment near our home.  He was going to give each of the kids a key - so that they could visit anytime.
Great plan!
Also, with what money?  Oops, he didn't think about that.

A year later, he still lives in his parents guest room.
Commutes 50 miles (one way) to work each day.  (Work is about 2 miles from our home).

Spends all his $$ on gasoline...and whatever else.

No.  They really don't think things through too well.

It kind of confirms the whole MLC and teenage/childhood stuff about MLC.

A teenager dreams of running away from home.  Doesn't think too much about where he/she will sleep or where the next meal will come from.

An adult - who is finished with his marriage - (I would think) - would have some plan on where he/she will live, how he/she will afford it, how he/she will be able to provide for their children, etc.

A child/teenager just runs away.

Boy...was that a hijack!  This thread is about friendship with your MLCer.  Whoops!

Limitless

[Thundarr]

Limitless,

As my mom and I were talking last night and having a laugh about my W's master plan, the thought came to me that she might has well have written it out on a napkin in crayon!!!  And this is the woman who planned our vacation to Disneyworld and Daytona down almost to the hour and it went flawlessly!!  Unbelievable.

Anyway, hijack over.

[LifeGoesOn]

Boy...was that a hijack!  This thread is about friendship with your MLCer.  Whoops!

Anyway, hijack over.

I think the discussion led to this is b/c we are trying to figure how to be a friend and have an adult friendship with a rebelious confused, teenager who cannot think past getting todays' needs met.

[Mamma Bear]

Thundarr, Are you kidding me? You are so funny. Everyone here keeps up with the great sense of humor.
   Imagine we were writing a movie for Hollywood. It's a comedy. Hmmmm? Where can we get some material?  Thundarr, It's our lives.
  The one person on this planet we thought would always have our backs STABBED US IN THE BACK.  Now they are texting OM/OW in
front of their kids. Making out at the ice skating rink in front of my kids (D9 and 11)  That was ONE time. After that no more ow outings. They smile and give us the eye. If not not for you, soon.

 Every single thing they say and do is priceless. I just saw a book in the hospital gift shop called something like "Talking to your Teenage Son" or Inside the Brain of your Teenage Son. Whatever I'll find out. I skimmed it and I want to read it so I know what my 51 year old once kind considerate and loving H is thinking. Selfishness is his 180.  MLC takes TIME.......
   He's my friend bc he always was and he always will be. No matter what kind of weird alter personality he is in. Captured.  I know that he knows that I know OW means nothing. So for my own survival EVERYTHING IS FUNNY.

[Thundarr]

You know, as I was browsing Barnes and Noble looking for some of the recommended books the other day I ran across a couple about talking to your teenager.  I by-passed them as I thought about how my teenage daughter has matured so much we have really no conflicts at all anymore.  I didn't stop to think about how my W is now the new pubescent teenager in my life and how it may really benefit me to read up on it  now.

Funny thing is I turned down a job recently as a therapist at a girl's home and my reasoning was that after dealing with my D's teenage years I couldn't imagine working with 12-20 teenage girls.  Funny, I could probably have learned alot that might help me now in trying to be friends with my teenage wife. 

It's really hard to be friends with a 41 year-old who seems to be obsessed with her cell phone and texting.  It's absolutely sickening to watch.  It's especially sad when I see her and her mother (who has full-blown Alzheimers) both not being themselves together and knowing that both MAY be this way forever.  Sometimes I think my MIL has a better chance of coming out of it than my W does.  I miss my best friend.

[Mamma Bear]

 Thundarr,  This to will pass. I really think it's a phase if you will and they wake up. Give her (the teenager) SPACE and TIME. I highly recommend Duct tape over the mouth. My H is like
 What happened to the shrew?  I am quiet and distant around him.  Even when he's telling me about running out of gas in his own driveway. While running over to OUR GARGE to borrow the gas can.  (can't just buy a new one they cost $5) DRAMA!  Gas can equals another Touch N Go....Just Go...LOL

[LisaLives]

LGO, Oh my gosh thank you, you finally gave me the right lens and it all makes sense now.  How can reasonable and considerate adults be friends with irrational teenagers who can only see the world through their selfish prism?  If my exH ever makes it out of the tunnel and remembers who he used to be, I can try to be friends with that person, but in the meantime, the selfish teenager is not looking like a good prospect.

He can't talk about or relate to ANYTHING in the same way I do and we don't have the same values.  Right now I sit in a quandary because S12 is apparently coming home today (he said he was not going to because I was mad that he missed an orthodontist appointment and would not let him see Hangover 2) after a visit to exH and OW who took him shopping and to an amusement park and all kinds of stuff.  My kids use her, they know they can, they admit it and they like it.  I do not like this in my kids, it is not the kind of people I want them to be, and if we were friends, I would be able to talk to exH about it.  But I am not allowed to talk to him about anything having to do with her, his rules.  Also, S12 wanted to talk to exH about living with him permanently--perfect sitch, right, living with a couple fun teenagers?  I thought about telling exH, but even my raising it would put me on the defensive, he would step up to be the savior, S12 would be packing his bags and leaving for parts unknown.  Even if all is perfect in their world, exH and OW need time to stabilize first, this would not be a good idea, but he wants to be everyone’s hero, especially his kids.  S14 on the other hand is still really struggling with all this, hates his father and has gotten out of seeing him two of the last three scheduled visits, but I can’t talk to him about this either because absolutely nothing is wrong with either of our kids, and the only problem in this sitch is me and the way I perceive things.  S14 balled up in his bed sobbing holding baby pictures and screaming that he hates D is surely my doing, not his own feeling, right—I felt that for a long time because H said it so much it had to be true… 

Anyway, the list goes on.  I can’t talk about anything having to do with my kids--from medical bills to friends.  I can’t talk to him about my job because I still feel resentment for the fact that he totally screwed up our lives and I had to reinvent everything about myself to save me and my kids (and yes I am working on that, but it will take just a tad longer, and getting out of the debt he left me with will be a good start, but it will take another two years).  I can’t talk to him about our friends, he has alienated all of them, and I don’t know anything about his new life, so where is the basis for a friendship?  I feel like our past was the foundation for any friendship we could ever have, but if he denies the past I thought we had by saying he never loved me, that I killed him slowly and painfully, not to mention I was unattractive and didn’t dress well enough, then there is nothing—my friends at a very minimum HAVE to believe I am beautiful and look younger than my age and tell me that at least once a month—yes I AM that shallow ;-)!  I could try to be HIS friend and listen to his problems and empathize with OW issues, but why, I got too much to do (thanks to him) and other friends who need me and will give back (and have given so much in the last five years, so I have some debts to pay in that regard!) and are not intent on screwing up their own lives and wallowing in messes of their own making... 

For some reason that little rant felt really good, thank you, thank you!  LGO, you helped me clarify to myself why I don't have to feel bad for not trying harder to be his friend.  I still sometimes (really, a lot) beat myself up over all of this, and doubt every choice I have ever made in my life--he would have stayed if I had not given up strappy heels for practical flats, and if I try harder to be his friend he will realize he loves me--not!  I was his friend and he kicked me to the curb with the rest of his friends, his choice, not our mistakes!  Today you set me free and that felt so cathartic, I think I'll go buy shoes--Glamour says the fall trend is platform sandals with black tights and there are lots of good ones on sale!  I'm the clumsiest person in the world so I might die, but at least no one will be able to deny that I was fashionable when I fell to my demise, and at my funeral all my FRIENDS will say I was beautiful one last time!