[Anjae]

where the FAKING stops and you really let go.....where you just see of very very very messed up they are and how VERY VERY VERY VERY far you must get away from them.  I feel this strongly in my case ....STAY VERY FAR AWAY....

Thing is, from a certain point on you're not only staying very, very, far away from them, you become very far away from them. So far away that you can no longer see any connection.

[Standing4Myself]

I made them all:
I believed my ex when she said the OM was just a friend
I believed a trial separation would save our marriage
I believed I was different from everyone else, thought my marriage was too good and she’d snap out of this any second.
I believed (at first) I was the problem, that it was my fault and surely my wife ‘traded up’ with the OM. 
I believed I needed to appease her.
I believed her lies.
I believed that as long as I kept her out of the lawyers office, and out of court, and said ‘lets just consider ourselves divorced’ that she’d thank me for saving our marriage.
I told her she was having an MLC.
I contacted the OM.

Some good advice, Buggy/stayed - I think by really truly letting them go, truly detaching, the MLC starts to end. At least for us - I think WE can end this anytime we want.

[kikki]

Thing is, from a certain point on you're not only staying very, very, far away from them, you become very far away from them. So far away that you can no longer see any connection.

AnneJ - I guess this is where 'everyone is an individual' comes in. 

Sounds like you did a great job of letting your H go.  Hasn't seemed to snap your H out of anything so far ......
Would this be your experience? Just wondering ..

[hyperglad]

Sounds like you did a great job of letting your H go.  Hasn't seemed to snap your H out of anything so far ......
Would this be your experience? Just wondering ..

Kikli i think the point of this is not to snap them out of it but to get to a point where you are OK either way if they come back or not, as they truly are not with you anyhow.

I know I still have some fear of fully letting go but i am slowly getting there. I admit i get comfort from H being here and i fear telling him not to come here anymore, not because he will go to OW because that holds no fear anymore, I know she is nothing, but because I miss his presence even though often when he comes he annoys the hell out of me because it is still all about him. My H is charming M so no nastiness unless backed into a corner.

I consider I am paving the way but I do also think I am prolonging this as there is no incentive for my H to make a decision as he is happy doing what he is. I have to get strong enough to make this final move...and yes this is about me now..but i am hoping it wont be much longer as I am not liking my sitch at present even though it is a lot like it was before all this if that makes sense.

[kikki]

Hyper - yes you're right about that.  But wouldn't you just love to apply a firm smack to the side of their heads sometimes - to see if anything shifts in there??

Okay - I'll restrain myself

I'm a bit like you.  I too like seeing my H, even in this detached state.  He too is nice to be around unless backed into a corner.
The small crumbs seem to be better than nothing - that is what I'm also fearful of - dropping the rope entirely.  I know I have to.

I'm trying to pluck up the courage to say that the boys and I want to go a few hundred miles away from him for Christmas - to spend it with my Mum and siblings.  I know he'll be heartbroken.  Should I care?  No!  Do I care - yes!  Should I do it anyway - probably ......

[Trustandlove]

Mistakes? Lots, I'm sure.  Thing is about mistakes, like what did "right", is that sometimes they are only apparent in hindsight.

Such as Mermaid's rant at the OW -- at the time I actually thought it was good, and to tell you the truth still do -- it was honest.  I see now that she says that it didn't help anything, but it did seem to be a situation that needed a strong response. 

Even RCR says that a b!tc#-mode vent can be useful.  It's just permanently staying in b!tc# mode that is harmful. 

Of course we can look back and see where we were less than perfect, where something different would have been better. I have "perfect" responses in my head to all sorts of situations, but IRL they just don't come out that way.  Well, sometimes they do, but IRL emotions get in the way.  We're human. 

As for my own mistakes?  That would be doing too much "strategy".  Doing things in order to get him to do things, rather than for myself.  I even told him that I was planning to date.  What was most wrong with that was that it was done in order to make him think, rather than because I was done standing.  Manipulation never works, and can backfire.  That may have set us back ages, as I'm still in this after more than 4 years.  That was over 2 years ago, before I ever found RCR's site and way before this forum existed. 

I think I did a lot "right" instinctively soon after BD, but I just didn't appreciate how long this takes, and, on the advice of a very pro-marriage counselor, started doing all sorts of "strategies".   To give the C the huge credit he is due, a lot were good, and were what is recommended here.  The difference was that he didn't accept MLC, nor the time this could take, and as it all went on he got very frustrated with H, as did I. 

Which brings me to my other mistake category, which was looking at someone else's "strategy" and trying to apply it wholesale to my own sitch.   

And the last thing was how long it took me to learn to look at this as though through a window, or rather look at H that way, and not try to fix everything. 

So a lot -- I don't know if I'm still here because of all my mistakes, or if this just takes this long.  I think back to my own "early - life" crisis, and really, it's hard to say if I would have gone through it any faster if others around me had done things differently.  But I do know that back then I had to go all the way through it all; had I not, I'm sure I would have gone back and made more of a mess at another point. 

Oh, and perhaps talking (and writing) a lot is another fault??  

[stayed]

where the FAKING stops and you really let go.....where you just see of very very very messed up they are and how VERY VERY VERY VERY far you must get away from them.  I feel this strongly in my case ....STAY VERY FAR AWAY....

Thing is, from a certain point on you're not only staying very, very, far away from them, you become very far away from them. So far away that you can no longer see any connection.

Not being CONNECTED, seems counter productive, but that is exactly where you want to be.  Being unconnected allows you to view what your MLC'er is doing without inflicting PAIN on yourself.  You are able to function again, breath, allow yourself to heal.  Life is very interesting without the rose coloured glasses.  Strength replaces fragility.  Knowledge replaces vulnerability.  Strength and knowledge beget power and self control.  Doors open, opportunities present themselves!

Anne we don't need to know the outcome.  The condition our spouses are in now, there is no OUTCOME obvious.  Don't worry about your MLC'er, this is his/her crisis.  Use this opportunity to find out, who you are.  You are the key, for both of you actually.  The only person you need to be connected to, is YOURSELF, all the rest will fall in place, in time. 

hugs Stayed

[kikki]

Stayed - after my last post, I just had a very good example of what you are talking about.

What I miss is my old H, or the thought of the potential future H, not the person he is in crisis.

He sent me a txt a couple of hours ago, asking to come and pick something up for his work trip away in the morning.  I tried to fob him off but he was insistent.

He arrived after a big day at work - he was tired, irritable and tetchy.  Tried to make himself seem more important than me, which has been a recurring pattern for the couple of years before he left. YUCK!!
It really, really sunk in how unappealing this version of this man is. 
OW is welcome to him - it can't be much fun for her these days.  She must see this version a lot these days.

Time to concentrate on me and leave him to it - great advice

[LisaLives]

Stayed - after my last post, I just had a very good example of what you are talking about.

What I miss is my old H, or the thought of the potential future H, not the person he is in crisis.

He sent me a txt a couple of hours ago, asking to come and pick something up for his work trip away in the morning.  I tried to fob him off but he was insistent.

He arrived after a big day at work - he was tired, irritable and tetchy.  Tried to make himself seem more important than me, which has been a recurring pattern for the couple of years before he left. YUCK!!
It really, really sunk in how unappealing this version of this man is. 
OW is welcome to him - it can't be much fun for her these days.  She must see this version a lot these days.

Time to concentrate on me and leave him to it - great advice

Isn't that the truth, the more you see, the less you like...  A woman on another thread said that she sent OW a lovely handwritten card thanking her for taking out her trash!  Sometimes that's what I feel like.  In the beginning I felt like I was the trash that he threw out, but more and more, I am in a much better place and I realize right now HE IS THE TRASH, and I should thank her for taking care of him in this state...

[stayed]

A woman on another thread said that she sent OW a lovely handwritten card thanking her for taking out her trash!  Sometimes that's what I feel like.  In the beginning I felt like I was the trash that he threw out, but more and more, I am in a much better place and I realize right now HE IS THE TRASH, and I should thank her for taking care of him in this state...

Thank you LisaLives, I loved this!  So true!

hugs Stayed