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Author Topic: Discussion The Alienator??? Many questions.....

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Discussion Re: The Alienator??? Many questions.....
#270: October 17, 2011, 08:06:30 AM
Crazy, You should have texted back.."No, I haven't seen you in awhile" ;D

Don't be fooled, just because you don't hear about the details, they (OP)are all are disfunctional. My H used to say she is so nice, independent, has many friends, etc.  Now, after the affair is over, I hear, she got mad alot, still calling him a few times a week (clingy), never goes out, she sot of manly, not attractive, friends are all low life's, etc.  After the infatuation stage is over, it's all down hill..it just takes way longer than we ever would want it to.
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Re: The Alienator??? Many questions.....
#271: October 17, 2011, 08:32:33 AM
MammaBear: OMG, when you called him a "psych patient" i nearly peed in my pants. Too funny. My H said, "you treated me like i was mentally ill" well, if it looks like a duck, acts like a duck....

MB and NB: I think they do pick the person that is better suited for their opposite self. The OW in my situation was manipulative, but don't forget, at the time H thought she was sweet, innocent and needed help. (He called her naive because she didn't date much before she got married. But she's 49 and had more boyfriends than I had) The mentally ill part comes in because she was suppose to "take care of him"  But, he also thought he was the King.  H had said, "I lost control at home" I remember saying, "do you feel like you're in control now?" OW really went out of her way to make it seem like he was in control when he wasn't. It wasn't until she started to crack when his mushed up brain started to see that.

NB: didn't you say that H told you once that if OW ever tried to push him around he'd throw her out? Some men think they are in control, but they aren't. my H wants to feel like the king of the castle. I can be strong, and I do manage things around here. So he is attracted to manager types. But, he wants to think he's the captain. Your H went for someone who is needy and quiet, but she knows what to say and do to keep him thinking he's in control. He feels important at a time when he's done something disgusting and immoral. OW MUST not want him to leave. She needs him. She has no life, no respect without him. She's saying the things he wants to hear. No matter what you say to him, he won't see that. He has to see it for himself. No matter what I told my H about OW, or what others said, he defended her. She made him feel like "no other person could understand her like he does" Oy vey!

My own D13 said, "what kind of person must she be Dad, if she bails on her family with a D my age? What does that make her?" at the time, H had said, "she's nice, you'd like her."
Older D said, "she's not our type."

H doesn't remember these lines, but he remembers the infatuation and the feeling he felt. The excitement of OW helped him get through feeling trapped and lonely. He knows now that it wasn't love.

synicca: i do believe your H will go through it. they all do. Some are lucky to have standers, but most come back realizing they lost it all and they have to make do with what they have left. My H, as stupid as he was for doing what he did, had to face the humiliation of leaving OW and admitting he was wrong and dealing with all the "I-told-you-sos" and "he's-just-a-user-cheater-player" judgments at work. Had he stayed with OW, he would have done so to "prove" to the world it wasn't just an MLC affair. My assurances that we'd rebuild together and a letter from my Dad (representing a very large family) that forgiveness was possible, helped my H think he could get through it. I think that's why when he came home he through a big backyard party: he wanted to rehabilitate himself at work and with our friends at home.

OW had harsh words for him when he left, and everyone at work heard them. "he was a user" "he had no soul" I remember my H saying, "people thing my word is mud." (it was mud at the moment he decided in his head our marriage was over, DUH).

After the initial breakdown I had, I refused to be pulled down to his level. I never cursed at him, and I was the shoulder he'd cry on. If he called about a show (for us CforHim it was True Blood), I'd listen to his evaluation of the show. I'd comment and say, "it's not the same watching it without you. But I'll talk about it, 'cause this could be the last time." He remembers thinking that every time I said things like that, he felt sad. My comments that I'd Stand, but not forever (I had a sort-of deadline), made him panic. The panic fueled OW to show her manipulative colors. Again, SHE did it, not me...not directly anyway.

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Re: The Alienator??? Many questions.....
#272: October 17, 2011, 01:08:15 PM
Angelgirl, There's a psych floor at the hospital I work. When my coworkers and I are acting out down here we call ourselves "Psych patients" :o :o :o
   I love your tales from the Crypt about OW and H. Fascinating. It really is the hardest part the affair. I can't get around that naked with a stranger thing and then "Oh well it is what it is"   Totally crazed nonsense. I guess our senses of humor and kindness keep us going. :)
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Re: The Alienator??? Many questions.....
#273: October 17, 2011, 01:09:55 PM
NB, OW are controlling and manipulative. Now I know for sure. Had been keeping files on the computer, clearing clutter and also separating documents that may be important for my court defence/legal reason and come across a file of messages exchanged between husband and OW1 between July and September 06.

Many things come of it, starting by how delusional they both are.  Also get to know the rough part, that they’ve meet a few times before he left. But, stetting the small upstness that comes with it (after all, at this point, that is hardly a surprise  ::)), it is fascinating to see the dynamics of such relationship.

Husband is still a vanisher and currently living with OW2 but I’m certain he will not remember most of the things he said to her. I’ve had a talk to him, in March 2008 (years before I’ve find this file) and he did not remember some things I did remember he did. So, perhaps he, now, or when he come out of the MLC, he may not even remember stuff the had done, like places where he meet with OW1 or why he meet her (same, I guess, will be valid for things said and done with OW2).

There are priceless pieces of in-fatuation “love” prose, a marvellous follow up of the scrip. And yes, they become teenagers again.  ::) ::) ::)

Things like, after the fist time they meet in person and had a “love” afternoon on OW1 car front seats in the end of July 2006. Must be noted that husband always dismissed the though of making love in a car as a kids stuff, ridicu]lous.

Husband “I felt live an adolescent again, like with my first love (no idea who is/was is first love. He never talked to me about her.), There is something I think about but, out of respect for Anne, I cannot say. What happened that day is all my fault, I should had not let it happened. But I had no strengths to say no. How could I it is all so strong, so intense…” (until that day they had only talked on the internet and exchanged text messages).

OW1 “Of course I understand that you could had not said it. I admire for it, I admire you for your respect for Anne. Don’t feel guilty for not had been able to prevent things from happening. How were we going to prevent it from happening? I thing it was beyond us, because, just like you’ve said, it is very intense…”

Husband: “My love, please don’t be angry. Not to disrespect by relationship with Anne, it is a many years long relationship, but, yes, I feel that what we have is so special. You are right, it is so intense…”

Now, jump to early September 2006.

OW1: “There is one thing I need to ask you, I’m sorry, but I do need to ask. Will you ever me mine and only mine?”

Husband: “I cannot answer to that. I do not know. Anything in life can happen.”

OW1: “I understand, I should had not put the question like that.  I should had asked, would you ever wanted to be just with me? I respect and like you for your sincerity but I’m here fighting for us, I am giving up my values, the values that I’ve always have, for our love, to be with you. I’m a woman of strong values, a person of dignity who praises her self very high. I need to know I’m not compromising my values in vain. You’re the man I’ve been waiting for all my life, my love, please don’t let me down, please don’t let our love die. What we have is so special, so unique. I do not want to loose you, I would not bear to loose you.” (of course you praise your self very high and are very high values person. You just could not keep away from a married man…the man you’ve been waiting for all your life… ;D ;D ::) ::) ::))

Husband: “I did not wanted to hurt you, my love, nor I want you to compromise your values for me. I, to, need to overcome some values so that we can be together. Sometimes I try not to even thing about what I’m doing, if I think too much I would most likely not do what I’m doing. So, I let myself be guided by my heart.”

A few days after, regarding a dinner party I and husband had been invited to as well as OW1 (by then no one knew she was OW1 and we were all part of the same cultural circle, even if she lived away and was rarely in our city.)

OW1:“I do not know what to say to MR Y, he is always so happy, talking about the dinner party, and has invited me. I do not want to hurt him not be inconsiderate but, my love, I would not be able to see you with any, I know it is absurd but I would feel betrayed.”

Some more days passed, the dinner party passed, husband and I had an argument (at this point I was already suspicious)

OW1:“My love, I’m so jealous of Anne. You both attended the dinner party and some of the people that have been there told me it was a great evening. I’m jealous of the past you two share, jealous of how you’ve spend so much time together, jealous of not been able to be part of the life of both of you. I’m even jealous you’ve had an argument with her. You’ve done well calling me, telling you’ve had an argument. You were so sad my love, so sad, I will take go care of you, I will always take good care of you.


Some more days go by, they start talking about how it would be like living together, even if, like Husband says “they do not know each other very well, they are very different, but what they have is such a beautiful love. And you, my love, make me feel alive”.

Husband : “You don’t know how to cook? I’m used to be pampered on the cooking department. I don’t cook much, I’ve only cooked the few times I’ve been on my own this years. Anne cooks. But, and this is really odd, I have a urge to cook for you, my love.”

OW1: “No, I do not know how to cook, I’m not a wife nor a house wife. I live with my family, I don’t know how to do anything, my mum does everything. Well, I cook pastas, I’m good at it. But I know I will be able to take good care of you, to praise you, do cuddle you. And we will be so happy in our little beach house, both rolled up in the couth, facing a good fire.”

There are, literally hundreds of messages between them from the end of 20 so of July and the 20 so of September. Plus the hundreds of text messages they mentioned they have exchanged, the daily lengthy conversation on messenger, the phone calls husband makes her when he is at work.

Most of the messages that are in the folder are all about she saying he is very handsome, that  they should take a picture together and see how it looks great for sure, they are both very beautiful people, she says, She praises him for whatever, says she has never loved anyone like she loves him, that he is the man she’s been waiting for, the man of her life, that she knows they will be together for ever, that she is the only man for whom she excepts to give up her independence and life with. She makes plans, travelling Europe by car, walking hand in hand by the Senne, buying the beach house. She is also always talking of how jealous she is of all the women that he seeps with, of how they need to go shopping, of how much she loves shopping, shoes, dresses, how she likes to dress pretty for him, to be sweet and gentle and caring for him. How their love is so strong, capable of resisting the worst hardships.

He buys that but he never says she is the love of his life nor that he has never loved anyone like he loves her. He also says that he had loved to telll her, in person, many things about himself when they were together in the hotel bedroom.

Until he left they had seen each other, alone, four times. Twice in a hotel bedroom, (both had lied about where they were, she lied to her mother saying she was going to be with some friends, in one of the times he did not lied to me. He was in the hotel he said he was (it was work, he had a book room, she booked another one) and on the other he told me that he needed to took his sister, mother and grandmother to his grandmother village. There was no landline or internet in the grandmother house so, all I could was call in on his mobile), once in a seaside village where they had an afternoon of love in OW1 car, and once in the coach bus station, in the city we lived at (he had sneaked out of his job, easy, he always had a car job during the working hours  and places to go; she had to distract the female friend that was with her) for a huge hugh and a kiss. After he left is was rented rooms, the rooms he rented, her bedroom in her parents house, and here and there more hotel rooms.

From what is on the messages the both times in the hotel prior to his leave were not that fabulous. They were “fantastic”, so sweet, but husband seems to had panicked and, on the second time, she left, first the bed in is bedroom, and moved to the other bed, and then, the room. And he “though I had lost you forever. I could not bear that I had hurt you, failed you”. And she, “IT was alright, I understand why you panicked but you need to see it, I’m compromising myself to be with you, risking a lot. I have to lie to my mother to be here”.

She also wrote him a story of the very independent Little Girl and Charming Prince. How the Little Girl that had seen all her friend marrying or getting together and having children had never meet anyone until he, the Charming Prince turned up. When he ahd, she decided she was going to give up her independence, and do what she had always said she would not do, spend her life with someone. The Little Girl had decided to change her life, wants to change her life and live a couple’s life. She knows it will be hard, but they deserve to be together, they must be together forever. The Little Girl that has never loved and her Charming Prince lived happily ever after. (NOT!)V

All absolutely priceless. And it was for such woman that my husband, and for different version of these woman and their male counterparts, that ours spouses left lifelong marriages and relationships. Some, like mine, where not happy with just one of these people and had to go for a second one. I think he is trying to life the dreamy couple life with OW2 that he never lived with OW1.
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« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 01:35:36 PM by AnneJ »
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Re: The Alienator??? Many questions.....
#274: October 17, 2011, 01:43:14 PM

AnnJ ~ You are right.  I'm sure my H's OW does manipulate him, he just isn't seeing it.  It's amazing how they make
them feel so good yet so guilty in one sentence.  H's OW probably did that type of talk with him in Dec., saying things like, we should live together, leave your wife, we are meant for one another.  Like I said, it all went down way to fast for him so she had to be telling him he was the love of her life while at the same time making comments about moving into together.
Thinking back, he started acting really edgey the entire month of February which BD was 2/25.   She really pisses me off.  Sorry, I know it takes two but these OW know what they are doing.  She didn't care that she was taking a father away from his son or me.   Their affair started as an EA affair Spring of 2010 and went physical last Sept., Dec. she was staying at OUR apt. with him, Feb. he was gone.  And he says she is a nice person.  Yeah, right!  :'(

Thanks for your post.  It gave me alot more insite as to how they are minipulative. 

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Re: The Alienator??? Many questions.....
#275: October 17, 2011, 01:49:42 PM
Wow Anne, that's amazing(?) stuff.  Thanks so much for posting it!

It's so juvenile and pathetic.  The neediness and manipulation of the OW's astounding. 

What's going on with the MLCer that he finds that irresistible?  Proof positive they're not in their right minds.

Six months into my H's affair with OW our then 19 year old D discovered his secret cell phone that he used only to communicate with OW.  D read the text messages, was stunned, and confronted my H with what she'd discovered. 

Her father told her "it's was just a friendship that got out of hand,"  "I don't see her anymore,"  "She's dying," (yeah, he really told D that) and begged D not to tell me what she'd discovered because, "If you tell mom she'll divorce me and then she'll be alone the rest of her life."!

Can you imagine a father doing/saying this to his D?!

D took the info to our therapist (who, at the time, was seeing all three of us both together and independently) and therapist told D it was ok if she told me and ok if she decided to withhold the information.  That the decision was hers. 

D decided that, for the sake of keeping her family "together," she would not tell me and chose to believe what her dad had told her about the EA being over.  Quite a lot for a 19 year old to be dealing with, wouldn't you say?

When BD happened 18 months later, H did not tell me there was an OW.  D came to me day after BD and told me about the phone discovery.  She was heartsick and worried I would be angry with her for not telling me when she'd first discovered the phone. 

I was angry all right but not at her.  Her father had horribly manipulated her and, in my view, committed a kind of emotional incest with her.  But that anger helped me in the very early days of BD since I could summon it to help deal with the crushing grief I was also experiencing.

Cowardly H never did tell me about OW.  I had to tell him I knew about 2 weeks post BD.  He cried.

Yeah, pathetic's the word.

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God, grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change; the courage to change the one I can; and the wisdom to know it's me.

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Re: The Alienator??? Many questions.....
#276: October 17, 2011, 02:05:38 PM
You're welcome, NB and Thusting. It was an insight for me as well. Really amazing, that of making them feel so good and so guilty at the same time.

After BD mine also said she was a nice person. Well, they are probably nice. Good they are not. Or they were not at the time. But our spouses also aren't being good people.

In the messages I found they never mention divorce, marriage, he being a married man, she wanting to marry him. But he was monster with me at that time period (and after leaving/BD) and always talking of divorce. Giving silly reasons for wanting it.

Now OW1 does not upset me (at the time she did) and OW2 has never upsted me. Had been throught OW1, so, why bother with her replacement?...

"It's so juvenile and pathetic.  The neediness and manipulation of the OW's astounding." exactly, so absurd.

Still can't figure out what is that they found so attractive. If I go throught the all bunch of messages she sounds, needy, clingy, manipulative, red flags all over. Over worried, to "frail", always in need of his confort (but, ah! she was a very independent woman who did not wanted to be coupled...)... Maybe it is just that, like RCR writes in her features, MLCers need to fell needed, to have someone to rescue.

Rescuing their spouses would be boring, right? Spouse? They are kids, they do not have spouses!  ;D

A friendship that got out of hand...of course...they just do...when you're a teenager. I find it much worst when there are kids involved. But that shows how out there they are.
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Re: The Alienator??? Many questions.....
#277: October 17, 2011, 02:30:47 PM
AnneJ - thanks for sharing - it is bordering on hilarious - where do these OW get their 'script' from?  How do they know how to be needy, validating, but controlling and using emotional blackmail all at the same time. 

I have this txt from the OW.  I unfortunately had to contact her directly earlier in the year regarding a Business boundary issue. 

Her reply was ' I will not be drawn into your separation issues as it is for you and xxxxxxxx to resolve.  I have already had legal advice and it may be time that this was sorted between you both with dignity for everyones sake'.

My contact had nothing to do with our 'separation' issues, it was purely business.  Her seeking legal advice is interesting.  She doesn't have a leg to stand on.
And as for 'it may be time that this was sorted between you both with dignity for everyones sake'?  That's laughable.  Whose sake?  Hers only!!!

These OW are so TRANSPARENT and REVOLTING. 

Poor darling - things are not working out the way she had it all planned.  Things must have looked so promising to her in the beginning, when she was luring a very weak and unwell man away from his family.  (Yes I know he is as much to blame, but I have no sympathy for these 'other people' at all).

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« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 02:34:31 PM by kikki »

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Re: The Alienator??? Many questions.....
#278: October 17, 2011, 03:01:56 PM
kikki, you're welcome. So sad that it is funny, really.
 :)

where do these OW get their 'script' from?  How do they know how to be needy, validating, but controlling and using emotional blackmail all at the same time. 

Maybe we should ask them where they get their script and use it to get our spouses back from them! But, who wants to be needy and clingy and use emotional blackmail?...

Your husband's OW got legal advice regarding you and your husband? Nuts and none of her business. Ah! the dignity card, they play it so well... pfff...

Our spouses are the number one to blame/made responsible. They are the married ones. Shuold, at once, close the door for such people. Like, in many cases, they have done for years on end. Something gets to them and they go loony.

I found these other people are very sad and surely not very happy people. OW1 had another thing, in all those messages, she was a gossiper about everyone and gave advice to her friends about dumping boyfriends and girlfriends because they were not goo for them. Husband become a gossiper himself and also started giving advice to his friends, just in his case, he was trying to make this couple had had been dating for maybe one years, to save their relashionship. Just forgot to save his marriage...
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Re: The Alienator??? Many questions.....
#279: October 17, 2011, 03:48:59 PM
kikki, you're welcome. So sad that it is funny, really.
 :)

where do these OW get their 'script' from?  How do they know how to be needy, validating, but controlling and using emotional blackmail all at the same time. 
I said it before... my Wife... is the OW... I have seen the txts... it is amazing to see it from the otherside.  As I said in my first post... I think an alien ate my wife's brain.  It is SOOO not here.... I have known her for 25 years.  All I can see for sure... is they feel so piss poor about themselves and it gives them great self satisfaction of feeling of self worth that someone is willing to go to these lengths with them.  That is all I can figure... 

Me.
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« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 06:39:18 PM by OldPilot »
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