[Anjae]

50% of first marriages end in divorce,
the article that DGU posted says 75% of affair marriages fail (strike two)

I'm gonna use this again, Op. So 50% of marriages fail and 75% of affair marriages fail. That is just only more 25% of regular marriages. Or, if you prefer, 50% or marriages that did not start of affair fail, some of them because of affair.

so, 50% of non affair marriages survives and 25% of affair marriages survive. The rate of survival of marriages that started without an affair is too low.

[Dontgiveup]

"One of the man I know that married other OW is my uncle. He is happier with her than he was with my aunt at the time he left. He would not had been happy if he had stayed married with my aunt. Even my aunt says that."

This sounds perhaps like a marriage issue vs MLC.


"The thing is those relashionships can last. Saying that they can't is leading people to believe that those relashionships always fail. They don't."

Didn't say they cant' last or always fail.....they don't always fail.  The blog and articles say they rarely last.  That means a few do last....the ones that last are in the minority.


"because the LBS was ready, and the MLC was still in the crisis. The times do not match."

You are correct.  Below is part of the article Stories and Human Behavior.  Often the LBS does move on.  This website is in part designed to help the LBS gain an understanding of the MLC process.

"An MLCer may become stuck, but those are the rare cases. More common is for a person to regret their actions--often when they are too late because the spouse has closed the opportunity for marital reconciliation."

[LettingGo]

I believe that the reason an affair relationship can last has a lot to do with whether there is a standing spouse, whether the MLCer feels he has done too much damage to return.... a lack of trust and forgiveness.... not to make it all the LBS's fault, because it's not...

My own husband has confessed that if I won't have him back he will be "stuck with OW".... now he is saying he will NEVER stay with OW for life, but if I won't have him, he will have to find another woman right away.... he cannot be alone.

My friend's Dad left her Mom and married his affair partner (young secretary) 25 years ago. The alienator immediately got pregnant in order to either legitimize the realtionship and stake out her territory, or simply because young childless women might want to have children... something the older MLCer never things of as a consequence, hahahaha!! They leave their families to be waited on and adored by a young woman, only to become displaced by a new baby... but I digress... anyway, her Mom has also had a boyfriend for about 15 years and says "no way" to the idea of her ex husband.... however, my friend says her Dad, though content, has expressed MANY TIMES that he would prefer getting back together with her Mother... In their case, he is content enough, and unwilling to upset the apple cart and start all over again...

So, of course the affair relationship can last.... I believe it is the MLC affair that rarely lasts, because it is the perfect storm coming together of two F'd up people!! If one gets well, or wants to get well... that ends it. My husband has woken up to discover his OW doesn't have any redeeming qualities, other than she works a lot and "I guess that's a good quality... maybe I should think about it some more... surely there is SOMETHING about her I like...."  and he said this to me with a straight face! 

The reason the MLC affair lasts so long is because it is an emotionally bonded affair.... in a "normal" affair, it is all about the fun of secrecy, and once it is exposed to the light of day, the two parties generally decide IMMEDIATELY they didn't want to lose their marriage, home, family, job, reputation... they only wanted a little fun on the side for awhile... exposing the affair generally busts it up right away... not so with an MLCer.... they are in a romantic, fairy tale fog..... I think Mamma Bear's BIL described the affair as "The first 6 months it's all fairy dust and lalalala... then after that.... it's no fun, but you can't get out..."

I also imagine the reason so many marriages IN GENERAL don't last is the propensity to encourage people to chase "personal happiness" at any cost...

[Synicca]

Hey LG,

my dad has said MANY times too....that he would go back to my mom in a heartbeat...I personally think he was going through MLC...note the timing...he is 70 now..affair started when he was 50..go figure...now he is STUCK!

[OldPilot]

My dad has been married to her now for about...10 years and HE is miserable and UNhappy...but, he also feels stuck because he thinks
he cant leave the OW now because of Money...and my dad is now 70 yrs old. so even if they stayed married...doesnt mean they are happy at all..

SO Anne here is one of the 25% that survived.

I believe that the reason an affair relationship can last has a lot to do with whether there is a standing spouse, whether the MLCer feels he has done too much damage to return.... a lack of trust and forgiveness.... not to make it all the LBS's fault, because it's not...

I agree with LG, sometimes this is just the way it goes.

And Anne if you are telling me it is a bad bet to be married, well I think I agree with you.
But I know that I had a good marriage and wonderful children pre MLC.
And NOTHING is ever going to take that away from me.

As far as considering a marriage for 2 or 3 years a success, that I am not so sure about.

[Anjae]

Dontgiveup, it was marriage issues. They were 30 years old by then. No MLC.

I believe that the reason an affair relationship can last has a lot to do with whether there is a standing spouse, whether the MLCer feels he has done too much damage to return.... a lack of trust and forgiveness.... not to make it all the LBS's fault, because it's not...

Or because they are not done with the crisis and are still emotionall atached to the alienator, I would say. And yes, sometimes they have done too much damage to come back. Not just to the LBS but to the families. I have forgived my husband. As well as OW1 and Ow2. No point in holding a grunge against them. As for trusting him...I have no idea. We are, again, in the middle of a fault divorce that he started, so, too early to know that. But I don not think it is the LBS fault if the affair last.

My own husband has confessed that if I won't have him back he will be "stuck with OW".... now he is saying he will NEVER stay with OW for life, but if I won't have him, he will have to find another woman right away.... he cannot be alone.

If he says that if you don't take him back he will have to find another woman right away because he cannot be alone, his he not emotionally blackmailing you? Sounds like he is... I suspect mine can not be alone also. Because when OW1 was goen he come knocking on the door, so to speak, asking if I did not wanted to be is girfriend. I said no.

My friend's Dad left her Mom and married his affair partner (young secretary) 25 years ago. The alienator immediately got pregnant in order to either legitimize the realtionship and stake out her territory, or simply because young childless women might want to have children... something the older MLCer never things of as a consequence, hahahaha!! They leave their families to be waited on and adored by a young woman, only to become displaced by a new baby... but I digress... anyway, her Mom has also had a boyfriend for about 15 years and says "no way" to the idea of her ex husband.... however, my friend says her Dad, though content, has expressed MANY TIMES that he would prefer getting back together with her Mother... In their case, he is content enough, and unwilling to upset the apple cart and start all over again...

Young childless women do sometimes want to have children!  Someone should tell that to all those MLCers that change the wife for a much younger woman! 

So, of course the affair relationship can last.... I believe it is the MLC affair that rarely lasts, because it is the perfect storm coming together of two F'd up people!! If one gets well, or wants to get well... that ends it. My husband has woken up to discover his OW doesn't have any redeeming qualities, other than she works a lot and "I guess that's a good quality... maybe I should think about it some more... surely there is SOMETHING about her I like...."  and he said this to me with a straight face! 

Yes, an affair can last.. MLC affairs probably not. I've though about that. What happens if one of them wakes up and wants to get well or change livestyle? Mine will proabbly wake up to find that is OW2 has the same only qualities her your husnad one, she works a lot. And parties a lot as well!

The reason the MLC affair lasts so long is because it is an emotionally bonded affair.... in a "normal" affair, it is all about the fun of secrecy, and once it is exposed to the light of day, the two parties generally decide IMMEDIATELY they didn't want to lose their marriage, home, family, job, reputation... they only wanted a little fun on the side for awhile... exposing the affair generally busts it up right away... not so with an MLCer.... they are in a romantic, fairy tale fog..... I think Mamma Bear's BIL described the affair as "The first 6 months it's all fairy dust and lalalala... then after that.... it's no fun, but you can't get out..."

This is one of the other things that confuses me in this MLC thing. So, they are emocionally bonded to the OW/Om but could not care less, nor are emotionally bonded to their spouse? They were not emocionally bonded to the spouse for 10, 15, 20, 30 years? Oh dear...Well if after 6 months is no fun... no one would say it. They move in with OW/OM, go on holidays, etc. And can't get out? I've read all the features here on the site. Still I always think that it is a bit of an excuse. They did nor have many problems, and it was not hard for them to leave us. How har can it be someone you are not married with if you managed to leave someone you are married with? Not that hard, I think...

I also imagine the reason so many marriages IN GENERAL don't last is the propensity to encourage people to chase "personal happiness" at any cost...

Couldn't agree more.

[Synicca]

As far as considering a marriage for 2 or 3 years a success, that I am not so sure about

I agree OP

[Anjae]

And Anne if you are telling me it is a bad bet to be married, well I think I agree with you.
But I know that I had a good marriage and wonderful children pre MLC.
And NOTHING is ever going to take that away from me.

As far as considering a marriage for 2 or 3 years a success, that I am not so sure about.

Well, OP, we don't know if the 50% that survive are happy or not happy. Some may not be happy.

Sometimes, depending on the person, I think the MLC affair my last less is there is no standing spouse. Other times I'm not so sure. Also, being no contact does not make a MLC affair last less. And a LBS doing all the mistakes that can be done does not put the spouse away. Not does the LBS do all that has to be done brings the spouse closer. My husband was around all the time during OW1, when I did all the mistakes. When she was gone we wanted to have me has his girlfirend. I do not get in his way since OW2, the affair is lasting much longer, more than twice the one with OW2 and no way he comes close to me.

So, this MLC thing is really weird! 

It is not a better bet to just live with someone. Maybe to be on our own... But that is sad. And I don't find people that have never married nor livedd with anyone happier than the ones who had. I had a good marriage before BD as well. Same cannot be said of the past 5 years.

I didn't say that marriages that lasted 2 or 3 years were a a success, just that some MLC affairs last long than certain marriages that did not result from an affair, including some first marriages.

Edited for quote brackets

[LettingGo]

Really good point, OP! How did me miss the obvious, LOL!!

If he says that if you don't take him back he will have to find another woman right away because he cannot be alone, his he not emotionally blackmailing you? Sounds like he is... I suspect mine can not be alone also. Because when OW1 was goen he come knocking on the door, so to speak, asking if I did not wanted to be is girfriend. I said no.

No, in his case it's not emotional blackmail... he's simply telling the truth, and though it is absurd, it seems perfectly logical TO HIM, at this point..... like everyone feels that way!  Ask around and you will see it is also typical in early days for the MLCer to suggest - with a straight face - that the OW move in with him and the wife "that way everyone will be happy!"  It's possible your husband's asking if you would be his girlfriend was a version of that, or simply him turning you into OW to OW, even though she was gone....

Young childless women do sometimes want to have children!   Someone should tell that to all those MLCers that change the wife for a much younger woman! 

I've been saying this for YEARS!! Even if not in MLC, all older men should be warned BY OTHER MEN that trading the 40 year old in for two 20's means fun while trying to get her pregnant, hahaha!! They addressed this very well in the movie "It's Complicated".

This is one of the other things that confuses me in this MLC thing. So, they are emocionally bonded to the OW/Om but could not care less, nor are emotionally bonded to their spouse?

To quote Newman on his MLC blog.... he "did not lose his feelings for or fall out of love with his wife.... he simply DISPLACED HER". The affair partner is a MIRROR the MLCer holds up in front of themselves to PROVE there is nothing wrong with him... To HER, he is wonderful!! To HER, he can be anything he TELLS her he is, cuz she doesn't KNOW him or his history!! That's why they also abandon their friends and family... when they look at us as their mirror, they see a FAILURE, even if it's not what we think... it's how they feel about themselves.... eventually, the alienator wants more and begins pushing, pressuring and demanding... becomes CONTROLLING and SHRILL.... she was SUPPOSED to be his "soft place to land" but now, he is "stuck" to a degree because he has THROWN AWAY so much to be with her, yet she's STILL NOT HAPPY....

Maybe they leave her when she gets like that and find another one to try again.... to be wonderful again.... IDK.

My husband said yesterday that he wants to show me "Commitment like you've NEVER IMAGINED!!!" so at least he has a goal, hahaaha!

[LifeGoesOn]

I think moonlocks describes the A perfectly! lol

http://soulmateshmoopies.wordpress.com/2010/11/06/part-1/

The alienator has been the hardest part for me to deal with for soooo many reasons. How could h even look twice at the ugly skank? How can he possibly believe her lies and manipulations? Can't he see she has alienated him from everyone in his life that will not support the A with lies about them? How can he stand to be sooo controlled? How can he stand the drama? He should know the emotional blackmail for what it is! Arghhhhhhhh.....

In addition to all of the above posts, Helen Fishers' studies of the brain and chemistry of love hormones was enlightening for me.  A 'normal' in-love R lasts 18 months to 3 years, before settling into a deeper long term love....or break-up. MLC affairs are juiced along with the addition of tons of drama. I know whenever hobag is feeling a bit insecure, out come the lies, and emotional blackmail...with loads of drama and subtle ultimatums which seem effective on my MLCer who just wants to avoid conflict and drama to maintain status quo.

Here is an informative site on the fog...fear, obligation, guilt that is used by personality disordered individuals.

http://www.outofthefog.net/index.html

My H also likes it that hobag does all the thinking and feeling for him. He does not have to wonder what he thinks or feels about anything or anyone...she tells him!

And PLEASE! do not try to figure out the odds for your M based on current affair statistics...There are not ANY that are reliable or valid. That said, most of the stats that are quoted out there boil down to a 1 to 5% chance that the A will last longer than 5 years.


And a blog on forgiveness that is helping me.

http://www.drjudithorloff.com/_blog/Dr_Judith_Orloff's_Blog/tag/relationships/

Reading and understanding will lead to forgiveness for a person who would pursue, and move in with a married man. Now, 3 years after I found out about the alienator, i do not think about her very much. When I do, there is still anger, hate, disgust, and so on, so forgiveness is a way off....but the forgiveness will happen because she is such a lost, unfortunate, disturbed skank that may never experience the joy I already feel on a daily basis. She never knew the wonderful man I knew for 25 years and probably will never meet him.

I also imagine the reason so many marriages IN GENERAL don't last is the propensity to encourage people to chase "personal happiness" at any cost...

I totally agree. (I blame Hollywood and reality TV ) I am grateful for the opportunity my h has given me to learn that one can chase happiness forever and never find it unless they look within b/c that is where it lies...within...our beliefs, attitudes, perspectives, thoughts, etc. (it is ok to remind me I said this next time I get all sad and blue! )