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Author Topic: MLC Monster Signs of Depression during MLC

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MLC Monster Signs of Depression during MLC
OP: October 03, 2011, 02:21:51 PM
I found this on another site, and felt everyone here would enjoy reading this.


Depression sign #1: MLC'ERS WILL OFTEN VIEW THEIR LBS AND THEMSELVES AS ONE PERSON

The reason behind the MLC'ers lack of boundaries comes because they do not view their LBS separate from themselves. They are so engulfed in negativity that they do not think clearly. As MLC'ers look to their loved ones to define and deliver their happiness, MLC'er eventually feel betrayed due to happiness being an internal thing not external. This "feeling" of betrayal may cause some of the anger we see in our MLC'ers.

Depression sign #2: MLC'ERS ARE UNABLE TO SUSTAIN AND MAINTAIN RELATIONSHIPS AS WELL AS RESOLVE RELATIONSHIP PROBLEMS.

Because of their irrational ways of thinking mainly due to a chemical imbalance in the brain, MLC'ers will hear/interpret WHAT THEY THINK others are saying rather than hearing what really is being said. They destroy these relationships by hearing blame rather than suggestions or means to problem solve.

Depression sign #3: MLC'S HAVE DEPENDENT PERSONALITIES.

We are overly dependent on others when we do not feel complete or whole. This is the very essence of a ML'er. As they continue through the tunnel, the ML'er gets much worse before they get better. The LBS is often forced into a "caregiver" role, trying desperately to fix the crisis. The ML'er becomes aware of their neediness and becomes jealous/envious of their loved ones strengths and efforts to help. Thus the ML'er responds with more anger.

Depression sign #4: ML'ERS ARE UNABLE TO SHOW EMOTIONAL SUPPORT

ML'ers are unable to stand the emotional pain they are creating. They become distant and indifferent to their loved ones. They view the LBS's as the cause of their own suffering and therefore treat them as strangers/enemies.

Depression sign #5: ML'ERS ARE EXTREME ATTENTION SEEKERS

Attention both positive and negative can confirm love and self-worth to the ML'er. To some ML'ers negative attention becomes better than no attention. Many have experienced "no attention" periods in their childhoods. Many ML'ers use drama, sinfulness, and confusion in an effort to get love. This then ensures the ML'er of keeping their LBS's close.

Depression sign #6: ML'ERS ARE SELF-CENTERED

It is all about them. As they become more absorbed in finding themselves, everyone else in their past life gradually becomes more and more obsolete. Most find their way back to what is really important - family and commitment. Unfortunately, they leave a heavy path of destruction which has to be faced.

Depression sign #7: ML'ER'S ARE UNABLE TO TRUST

How can ML'ers trust their LBS if they cannot trust themselves? Their emotions and thought processes are unpredictable and irrational. When ML'ers cannot trust, they often act out in angry outbursts and infidelity. They are searching for someone to reflect back to them an image of perfection and often heroism.

Depression sign #8: ML'ERS ARE UNABLE TO HANDLE STRESS

As ML'ers progress through the tunnel they become more and more unable to handle stress. Their life is now full of lies, deceptions, betrayals and manipulations. It becomes harder and harder to maintain their superficial world. Once they are reminded of some bit of reality revealing their inabilities and flaws, they react by getting angry, blaming, spewing, etc...

They do anything to avoid taking responsibility for their actions. If you doubt this try talking "relationship talks". You will no doubt be disappointed in the outcome. Until they are ready to repent and show remorse for their behaviors, relationship talks are useless.

Depression Sign #9: ML'ERS REWRITE HISTORY

Ml'ers typically have very low self-esteem. They will rewrite past events in their favor to try to build up their fragile egos. They would rather lie than face the possibility that something is wrong with them, let alone a mental illness. Many Ml'ers brain chemistry is skewed, not allowing them to distinguish between reality and distorted perceptions. However the distortions cannot go on forever.... As time goes on, they often get caught in their lies due to not being able to keep their stories straight.

Depression Sign #10: MOST ML'ERS HAVE AFFAIRS

The most painful and devastating part of the MLC for the LBS and family is the affair or series of affairs. Emotional affairs as well as physical affairs occur and most emotional affairs turn into physical affairs for the ML'er. Some of the affairs result in producing a "love child". Some result in the Ml'er marrying the OW/OM. Even though the ML'er is not thinking clearly, there is no justification or excuse for committing adultery. This post is by no means meant to excuse their behavior. It is unacceptable. If it is forgivable depends upon the LBS and the ML'ers ability to repent and show sincere remorse.

An affair allows the Ml'er a distraction from the pain resulting from one or more of the following issues: childhood abandonment/abuse, grief, aging, health, job loss or dissatisfaction, parenting, sexual dysfunction, or financial. Ml'ers feel if they start over with someone else, all their issues will go away. Little do they realize how much they have just complicated their life not to mention all the pain they will inflict on "loved ones" and friends. They are self-absorbed and only care about trying to obtain their happiness.

The OW/OM knows little or nothing of the Ml'ers history or flaws. They are fed "rewriting of history" reports from the ML'er on their spouse or significant other. They start the relationship by idealizing the Ml'er. The Ml'er can portray him/herself as heroic, perfect, and accomplished. Both individuals are living a fantasy. Each believes they have found their soul mate. Newness of a relationship and sex partner is empowering. Morality is no longer important. Lust equals love in the Ml'ers mind.

The OW/OM are extremely flawed individuals. They have many issues as well. Some identical to the ML'er which helps create the "connection" so many Ml'ers claim they are missing with their LBS. Ml'ers choose someone who is safe. They choose someone who will not outshine them or pose a threat. The OW/OM is usually a very insecure, fragile individual who needs to be taken care of in some way, shape or form. In many cases, the ML'er tries to create in the OW/OM a version of their LBS. Some encourage them to dress and act like the LBS. They will often take them to the same places as they did the LBS. Being of weak character and integrity, the OW/OM allows this and goes along for the ride. Many are in it for the financial and social status benefits that the ML'er brings to the table. The ML'er is usually not looking at finding someone better than their LBS. They want to find someone that they can feel superior to which will help nurture their bruised egos.

Eventually, chemical imbalances, stress, and doses of reality hit the Ml'er causing them to display their true selves. Fears resurface in the Ml'er materializing as anger and hostility. The OW/OM no longer reflects back to the Ml'er intense feelings of admiration and perfection. Sex becomes routine. Many experience sexual dysfunction during the MLC, but very much want to portray themselves as sexually potent individuals. Responsibilities increase for the ML'er especially if they are maintaining two households. Their world collapses very slowly. Almost to the point of being hard to detect for the LBS. The ML'er has come full circle. He/she is now at the same place they started. What the ML'er does at this point varies. Some go home after they realize the grass is not greener on the other side, others stay in this miserable state of self-pity and despair, and others just repeat the cycle and find OW/OM #2.

Depression sign #11: ML'ERS ARE CONTROL FREAKS

Ml'ers have no control over their behaviors and actions. They feel if they can control others as well as their environment they will eventually become whole again. This of course is not true. In fact, it usually has the opposite effect. The more controlling one is with others, the more we push them away.

How does the ML'er control others? By being verbally/physically abusive, manipulating, complaining, criticizing, blaming, saying things like "I want a divorce", "I never loved you", "I love you, but I am not in love with you", being impossible to please, having an affair, threatening to take your children away, threatening your living arrangements, threatening your financial status, losing his/her job, threatening suicide, etc. The list can go on and on.....

How does the Ml'er control their environment? Moving constantly, traveling more than usual, changing jobs, changing what they eat, changing how they dress, changing their overall appearance, what they drive, changing their friends, replacing their spouse, replacing their children, etc....

It is only when the ML'er realizes that they are not in ultimate control of others or things that a breakthrough can occur. That is why setting boundaries are important. It makes the ML'er realize their limitations and lack of control. Boundaries should be set in a firm but loving way. Ml'ers are more willing to respond to LBS's requests when this is done in a non-authoritative way.

Depression sign #12: ML'ERS HAVE EXTREME ANGER/RAGING/SPEWING

Mid-life crisis is a form of depression. Depression is anger turned inward. Unfortunately anger is a large part of the MLC journey. Anger is the path of least resistance. It is easier for the ML'er to be angry than to deal with his/her issues. Until that pain is acknowledged, and experienced, it continues to trigger anger and depression.

Beneath anger lies pain, and beneath that pain lies fear. If we remember this, we are more likely to become more sympathetic to the ML'ers journey. Unfortunately at times, it is very difficult to do. The bulk of the ML'ers anger is directed at the LBS. Ml'ers very much want to alter the perceptions of the LBS' to match theirs.

Depression Sign #13: ML'ERS ARE INDIFFERENT

Indifferent is defined as "without interest or concern, not caring, disinterested, impartial and apathetic". Nothing is harder to live with than an indifferent person. Ml'ers are indifferent primarily toward their past life. They are no longer interested in what the LBS, children, relatives, dog, cat, best friend, or church group are doing. They could care less about the lawn being cut, the algae in the pool, the leaking roof, or the bills being paid. Their past life no longer exists. They truly become "aliens" to people who love them. There are many reasons why this happens. ML'ers are self absorbed and don't want to focus on anyone but themselves. ML'ers no longer want any responsibility in their lives and just want to have fun and freedom. People and things of the past remind the ML'er of their failures. What better way to not have to deal with their pain then to pretend people and things don't exist anymore.



This "indifference" creates a whole new set of problems for the LBS. They now have the responsibilities of two people. The LBS becomes overworked and overwhelmed not to mention emotionally devastated. Many times they become financially devastated as well. The ML'er does not seem to notice the turmoil they have caused the LBS and again are "indifferent".

Depression sign #14: ML'ERS CAN BE NARCISSISTIC

The ML'er is full of low self-worth. By focusing on their appearance, their possessions, and their needs they try to project an air of importance, mortality, and perfection. They seek attention by focusing on superficial things and soon discover that these things bring only fleeting moments of happiness. No matter how many times you remind the ML'er that happiness comes from within, they try to prove you wrong by buying the next item or enhancing another body part.
Everything is about the ML'er. Everybody else's needs don't exist.

Depression sign #15: ML'ERS MAKE POOR DECISIONS

Ml'ers base their decisions on emotions as well as faulty perceptions due to chemical imbalances in the brain. This prevents them from functioning properly in important areas of their life like the workplace and home. As they make their way through the mid life tunnel, they make more and more poor decisions eventually causing them to doubt their abilities. This is just another hit on their already low self-esteem.

This is where the role of the OW/OM comes into play. ML'ers often will give up some of their decision making power at this point and depend on their "soul mates" to intervene. The OW/OM may or may not have clearer thinking at this time but you can bet their thinking will be in THEIR favor. The ML'er is much easier to convince, manipulate and persuade than ever. Since this is not a relationship based on trust and love, each player in this dysfunctional relationship is out for himself/herself.

Ml'ers also will often choose not to make any decisions due to their mass confusion.

Depression sign #16: ML'ERS ARE POOR MONEY MANAGERS

ML'ers have no control over what they do with their money. They tend to be very impulsive and often spend like crazy and make bad investments. They also use their money to satisfy and impress the OW/OM in their life as well as new found friends. Traveling seems to increase. Credit cards are often used to their limit and they have no awareness of the consequences of their debt. Their past financial responsibilities such as bills, supporting their LBS and children are put on hold. This is no longer important to them and they seem oblivious to how they affect others. It is important that the LBS protect themselves financially at this time and sometimes that means resorting to legal assistance to prevent involvement with collection agencies and bankruptcy. Spending serves as a distraction as well as a feeling of power and control to the ML'er. Money makes them feel immortal and special. This feeling slowly dissipates as they face their pain and debt.

Depression sign #17: MOST ML'ERS ARE ABUSIVE

This is one of the most serious signs of depression - abuse.
Here I will focus on emotional abuse rather than physical abuse because I feel it is more prevalent in the ML'ers journey.

Emotional abuse can be divided into various categories:

A. Withholding: By withholding love, affection, accolades, sex, children, communication, etc.. the Ml'er is saying I have something you want and I can withhold it from you. The Ml'er can take this even a step further by withholding love and affection from you and then giving it to someone else.

B. Discounting: By discounting the LBS' perceptions, the Ml'er is saying I can point out your uselessness.

C. Accusing and blaming: By blaming the LBS, the Ml'er is saying the LBS is to blame for their pain no matter what they do to you so they don't have to stop or be accountable.

D. Judging and criticizing: By judging the LBS, the Ml'er is saying to the LBS that when I tell you that something is wrong with your thoughts and actions, I put myself in charge of you.

E. Threatening: This a way for the ML'er to have control over the LBS to imply that they will take away something valuable to them, such as family life, financial stability, home, etc....

F. Name Calling: By calling names, the Ml'er is saying to the LBS that they are worthless and don't exist.

G. Denial: By denying what they are doing to you, the Ml'er can keep everything like it is and not take any responsibility for their behavior.

H. Abusive anger: By being extremely angry and raging, the Ml'er is saying as long as I am scary I can have my way.

The most common element of the categories of abuse is control. The Ml'er avoids his feelings of insecurity and powerlessness by controlling the LBS. If the Ml'er does not have anyone to have power over, they don't have any power. They often connect with someone who is easier to control and won't resist their need to dominate. It is in debate if a Ml'er does these behaviors intentionally. I think it can vary with the Ml'er. Some do not seem to have awareness that they are hurting others. Most Ml'ers seem to be totally out of character and are labeled "aliens" by their standers. The thing that is very confusing to the stander is that often ML'ers can control these behaviors in front of others, but seem to let loose when alone with the stander.

Depression sign #18: ML'ERS MAY ABUSE ALCOHOL AND DRUGS

Another escape from reality is the use/abuse of alcohol and drugs. Those who never used on a regular basis may start experimenting with various substances. Those who routinely used may increase their usage of alcohol or drugs or both.
Substance abuse may deepen the ML'ers depression only causing them more pain and problems. Misery loves company and many times the ML'er will choose to associate with people who also resort to alcohol and drug abuse.

Depression sign #19: ML'ERS CAN EXPERIENCE SEXUAL DYSFUNCTION

Hormonal changes cause the physical symptoms of menopause in woman (irregular periods, decreased fertility, etc...). Hormonal changes cause the physical symptoms of andropause in men (decrease bone density, hair loss, etc...). Hormonal changes in both men and woman can cause emotional problems such as depression.

Most people know that woman go through menopause. Men can go through what is called andropause - a male menopause so to speak. Andropause is characterized by a loss of testosterone. This affects some men more than others. Woman experience a loss of estrogen. This affects some woman more than others. Both males and females experience similar symptoms during this time, irritability, loss of libido in women and erection problems in men, sleep disturbances, mood swings, and depression. Mid life crisis involves ones hormonal, psychological, interpersonal, social, sexual and spiritual components.

Depression sign #20: SOME MLERS EXHIBIT JEALOUSY

Ml'ers exhibit jealousy as a method of control. Many have fears of abandonment and loss. ML'ers show jealousy because of their feelings of emptiness. Deep down they are terrified of losing their loved ones but feel it may be inevitable. ML'ers sense that they will no longer feel needy if they can only control their LBS.

Depression sign #21: ML'ERS ARE FULL OF SELF-PITY

Ml'ers really hate themselves. They may or may not show this to their LBS, but that is what is brewing underneath all their horrible behavior. Often, childhood issues come to the surface and feelings of rejection and abandonment prevail. Because of their self-hate and low self esteem, they have difficulty accepting that their LBS cares for them. Some ML'ers will express this by statements such as, "You cannot love me like I need to be loved", "Why don't you date other people", "the kids would be better off with a different father", “Why don’t you hate me”, etc..... They are so involved with their pity party that nothing else matters to them.

Depression Sign #22: ML'ERS DON'T WANT ANY RESPONSIBILITY

Before their crisis, most Ml'ers were very responsible, productive members of their home and work environment. Not anymore. Life is a party and they want to have fun. Many Ml'ers lose their jobs, stop working around the house, ignore their children, don't pay their bills, spend foolishly, etc... the list goes on and on. They actually feel that this is the time for them to get everything THEY want out of life and other people need to take care of THEIR responsibilities. Chemical imbalances cause them to lose focus and control of themselves. The LBS is forced to take on all the ML'ers responsibilities as well as their own. This is usually not acknowledged by the Ml'er or appreciated. In fact, they will use this as an opportunity to criticize or cut down the LBS' way of handling things. This gives them the opportunity to disconnect even more from the LBS and their family. It is only when their world starts falling apart do they realize how irresponsible they have been in their work and home environment. Guilty feelings will then set in and eventually processed by the Ml'er in later stages.

Depression sign #23: ML'ERS ARE VERY SENSITIVE TO CRITICISM

Ml'ers have this intense need to be respected and admired. They are overly sensitive to any suggestions, comments, helpful remarks and criticisms. Any comments even remotely critical are perceived as attacks on their already low self-esteem. Ml'ers will take these "perceived attacks" and deflect them by finding fault in their LBS. Usually these acts of finding fault are either non-existent or exaggerated remarks or incidents.

Depression sign #24: ML'ERS USE PROJECTION AS A DEFENSE MECHANISM

Psychological projection is a defense mechanism in which one attributes one's own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts or/and actions to others. Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted subconscious impulses/desires without letting the conscious mind recognize them.

Depression sign #25: ML'ERS CREATE CONFLICT/ARGUMENTS WITH LOVED ONES

Ml'ers create conflict/arguments with their LBS in order to have them respond in a NEGATIVE way. When the LBS responds in a negative way, i.e. anger, crying, panic, criticism, rejection, etc.... this enables the Ml'er to attach blame to LBS' normal defensive reactions. This also enables the Ml'er to justify their horrible behavior to themselves and others. For example, my ex started an argument with me one day on the way back from the grocery store. He said I should of been spending time with him alone instead of shopping for food for the kids. I told him how silly he was behaving and became angry. By the time we got home, he was so upset at my "insensitivity to his needs" that he left the house for that day and spent his time with the other woman.
Not only was this a way for him to make me look bad, but it was also a way for him to justify being with his "soulmate".

Depression sign #26: ML'ERS ARE IN DENIAL

Along with projection, DENIAL is another major defense mechanism that mid-lifers use. Denial is the psychological process by which human beings protect themselves from things which threaten them by blocking knowledge of those things from their awareness. It is a defense that distorts reality; it keeps us from feeling the pain and uncomfortable truth about things we do not want to face. If we cannot feel or see the consequences of our actions, then everything is fine and we can continue to live without making any changes.

When Ml'ers are feeling badly, they will often associate these painful feelings with their LBS instead of taking responsibility for their own actions. Getting rid of their LBS seems to be for them the only way of escape. Denial can become increasingly worse as the Ml'er continues on his journey. Their list of bad behavior and deeds becomes so long that there is no better place to be than the world of denial. The Ml'er becomes unrecognizable to their loved ones until various circumstances force the ml'er to examine the hell they have created. These circumstances may involve excessive debt, unwanted pregnancy, loss of job, fractured family, divorce, drug and alcohol abuse, loss of friends, homelessness, etc…

Depression sign #27: ML'ERS BECOME VERY COMPETITIVE WITH LOVED ONES

When a spouse is in mid life crisis, their LBS as well as other close family members become the enemy. Ml'ers are constantly comparing their loved ones with themselves. Many times they fall short and this leads to further insecurity and self-doubt. During their journey, they are out to prove that they are important and admired and become very competitive. They will withhold compliments/achievements toward important family members at this time. They begin to choose people in their lives that will make them feel good about themselves. Usually this means choosing people who are less accomplished and lower in character in order to make themselves feel better about themselves.

Depression sign #28: ML'ERS HAVE MAJOR MOOD SWINGS

This is a very obvious sign of depression but worth writing about. Family members who witness this depression sign often feel like they are going insane. The frequency of the mood swings with mid-lifers varies. Some experience rapid cycling, others much slower. Loved ones describe their mid-lifers as having Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde personalities. They begin to feel like they are walking on egg-shells. The littlest thing can set the mid-lifer into a rage or period of depression. Some family members may feel their mid-lifer is on drugs. These mood swings may or may not affect the work environment. Some mid-lifers are better at controlling what they let others see. This therefore leaves the LBS feeling responsible for the mood swings and their world begins to fill with self-doubt.

Depression sign #29: ML'ERS ARE MANIPULATIVE

People become manipulative when they are afraid of losing something of value to them. This can range from fear of losing an actual person or losing a perception that someone has of them. Mid-lifers manipulate loved ones in believing their reality, which at times can be very distorted due to chemical imbalances in the brain, guilt, shame, denial, self-centeredness, etc... Examples of mid-lifers being manipulative can involve twisting words around, creating confusion, drama, rewriting of history, lying, etc... Unfortunately the mid-lifers use of manipulation usually ends up pushing people away from them.

Depression sign #30: ML'ERS HAVE WITHDRAWING/ABANDONING BEHAVIORS

Another very painful characteristic of the mid life journey is when they abandon/withdraw from loved ones. This varies with each mid-lifer changing with each stage. It can range from emotionally withdrawing to physically abandoning their entire family. Many are simply just imitating a part of their childhood when they experienced some form of abandonment or abuse. Many use it as a form of control and power. To some, it is easier to run than face their demons, so they hide to get away from things and people that remind them of their pain or failures. Regardless of the reason, these behaviors leave loved ones in shock and confusion. Mid-lifers are oblivious to the pain and suffering they cause. Many LBS' lose their homes, self-esteem, children, etc... due to the abandonment.
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#1: October 03, 2011, 02:30:20 PM

Excellent article Tsunami!   ;D

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#2: October 03, 2011, 02:33:18 PM
Thank you NB, as you know, I found it on another site, but did get the Commander and Chief's permission prior to posting it here on the board.

Thanks OP, you are "The Bomb" as the kids say.
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#3: October 03, 2011, 02:51:12 PM
Tsunami,
Thank you for posting the article.

I can't say that I "enjoyed" it....it is very concerning....when reading the things that the MLCer is capable of doing.

Very scary.

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#4: October 03, 2011, 02:57:48 PM

L ~ Geesh, I feel like I have written on this forum more today than I ever have.  I guess it's because I am so down.

Anyhow, Tsunami sent this article to me a couple of weeks ago.  I loved it.  I have to wonder if that is because my H has done
so much of this to me.   It just confirms to me that he is having a MLC.  This article pretty much describes him.  You on the other hand don't see your H much.  He's kind of a vanisher.  I wonder if that is why we feel differently about it.  Just my thoughts.

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#5: October 03, 2011, 03:11:26 PM
Thanks for posting Tsunami - very interesting!

NB and Limitless - that is also very interesting.  I found it confirmed my view of my MLC H, but maybe NB is right - I also see a great deal of him and get to witness all of this cr*p too
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#6: October 03, 2011, 04:23:43 PM
Excellent article, Tsunami.  This crap wouldn't be so bad if it only lasted a couple months or so, but years?   How is anyone supposed to live through this and maintain any sense of sanity?  I'm at my breaking point and only 5+ months into this (from discovery of EA, at least a year and a half past beginning of MLC).  I could not be more weary right now and am just barely coasting through life I feel.
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#7: October 03, 2011, 04:33:10 PM
Hang in there Thundarr!!

Can't tell you how many times I've thought the same thing, and look - I'm still alive and breathing - and it's now 20mths post BD.
Sanity?  Well, I have to wonder about that at times :)
Have to admit - I looked at H this morning when he called by and thought 'how much longer?'  Years?  Ugghhh!!
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#8: October 03, 2011, 04:36:07 PM
Thanks for posting, Tsunami.

My two cents, MLCers are capable of relashionships years long ones, with OW/OM. If they are unable to handle stree they do a pretty good job handleing it for years and years and years. They manage to do it for longer that a sane person would.

The most devastating consequence is not the affair but the financial loss when that happens. At least, for me it is that the most devastating consequence. And, of course, the destruction of the marriage.
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#9: October 03, 2011, 04:38:10 PM
Great article.  Thanks for posting Tsunami! 
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#10: October 04, 2011, 07:38:00 AM
Thanks Tsunami.
I was able to check off every single box except for the jealousy one.
Wow. 
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#11: October 04, 2011, 08:38:18 AM
Woah fantastic!  I've made a copy of this to read and read and read again!!!!!! I need to inwardly digest it....makes me feel better about so many things that have happened to me.

Thank you for posting it!!

Love and hugs
Foxy xxxx
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H - still a Vanisher - Maybe he will realise one day what he's lost...but after years of heart-searching finally it doesn't matter any more! I never thought when I was devastated in 2010 after 28 years of marriage - I could be happy again...but it's true - I'm done spinning my wheels - I learned to walk on the sunny side of the street and leave the shadows behind me. Brand new life for me & it feels good to be free of all the drama. No such thing as MLC - just men/women who run away & are too cowardly to talk about their issues, just cheat with other cheaters! Don't waste your gift of life on these pathetic spouses - live life & enjoy...don't waste your life wondering why...you will never know...Trust is precious don't waste it on people who don't know know what it means...

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#12: October 05, 2011, 12:14:18 PM

Depression sign #1: MLC'ERS WILL OFTEN VIEW THEIR LBS AND THEMSELVES AS ONE PERSON

The reason behind the MLC'ers lack of boundaries comes because they do not view their LBS separate from themselves. They are so engulfed in negativity that they do not think clearly. As MLC'ers look to their loved ones to define and deliver their happiness, MLC'er eventually feel betrayed due to happiness being an internal thing not external. This "feeling" of betrayal may cause some of the anger we see in our MLC'ers.


Tsunami-This is awesome, Thank you for posting it!

Sign #1 resonates with me because this is what I am dealing with almost every time I see my H.  As the months roll by I am seeing more clearly that he feels more betrayed than I do.  He has told me that he does not trust me-because of money and my weight gain (I have since lost a lot of weight) Yet, I am not the one that lied to, cheated and abandoned him which are far more serious trust issues as we all know.

I am going to show this list to some friends because it is difficult to explain to people exactly what MLC is and how my H behaves.  This list was a total check list for my H-he has shown every single sign listed here!

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#13: October 05, 2011, 12:46:15 PM
I totally agree.  Thank you Tsunami for posting this.  Just like everyone else, I can pretty much tick off everything listed!
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#14: October 05, 2011, 01:34:42 PM
Excellent ............. thanks
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#15: October 06, 2011, 11:54:15 AM
For what its worth, my H actually told me this was the case for him....

Depression sign #1: MLC'ERS WILL OFTEN VIEW THEIR LBS AND THEMSELVES AS ONE PERSON

The reason behind the MLC'ers lack of boundaries comes because they do not view their LBS separate from themselves.


He often said that in regards to his unhappiness with himself, he could not separate me from him....and in regards to his unhappiness with everything overall, he could separate our marriage from all of that...whatever THAT was....everything in his life I guess.

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#16: October 06, 2011, 12:04:14 PM
Thanks for posting that..I especially love the statement that they most often return, I can never hear that too much.

It is good to see you are still with us. Hugs
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#17: October 07, 2011, 11:46:17 AM
I especially love the statement that they most often return, I can never hear that too much.
But is it an accurate statement. I do not read of many cases of return. Yes, there are some but it doesn't seem like most return.

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#18: October 07, 2011, 12:51:41 PM
My two cents, MLCers are capable of relashionships years long ones, with OW/OM. If they are unable to handle stree they do a pretty good job handleing it for years and years and years. They manage to do it for longer that a sane person would.

Anne, I think you hit on a major point, here.

I believe that MLC theory maintains that a big reason for the crisis is because the MLCer (is stubborn) does everything humanly possible to avoid working through their personal issues.  Of course, that doesn't suggest that the issues are conscious...  but they won't discuss with anyone, even therapists, about whatever skeletons they might have in their closets...

So the just keep pushing down that stress...  and it eventually overwhelms them to the point where they really don't understand who they are, perhaps the onset of the fog, and then just start "acting out" in whatever ways their subconscious requires as they finally begin to spill out their internal issues from their minds...
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#19: October 08, 2011, 07:29:48 AM
Thank you Tsunami.  This one article summarizes so much of what I’ve learned about MLC during the past 18 months. How I wish we could explain this to our spouses!  I believe my husband’s “trigger” into MLC started when he had a stent put into his heart a few years back.  As a result of changing his meds at that time, he passed out one night and hit his head, so I’m not sure if he was passed out or knocked out!  In any case, I remember screaming “Wake up H, wake up”!  I feel like I want to scream the same thing to him now…”WAKE UP H, WAKE UP before it’s too late. You're losing your precious family”! 

Our son is getting married next month, and this horrible crisis is turning what should be one of the most joyous days in our family’s life into a day where we are all dreading to see him.  Such a tragedy.  He’s losing the best things that ever happened to him.

I don’t know what I’d do without this site.  It’s such a comfort to come here and walk down this crazy path we’ve been put on…so very much nicer than trying to navigate it alone and afraid.  Thank you all…thank you RCR.
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#20: October 09, 2011, 08:55:25 AM
Quote from Honour
"I do not read of many cases of return. Yes, there are some but it doesn't seem like most return."

RCR has made mention of this quite a bit.  A likely reason that many do not return is not because the MLCer didn't want to return eventually.....it likely has much more to do with there no longer being a Standing spouse.

From RCR's article Stories and Human Behavior:
"More common is for a person to regret their actions--often when they are too late because the spouse has closed the opportunity for marital reconciliation."
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#21: October 09, 2011, 09:11:22 AM
Quote from Honour
"I do not read of many cases of return. Yes, there are some but it doesn't seem like most return."

RCR has made mention of this quite a bit.  A likely reason that many do not return is not because the MLCer didn't want to return eventually.....it likely has much more to do with there no longer being a Standing spouse.
Yes, a very good point. And also this board and others are fairly new and as we know MLC is a long process. So who knows, there may be lots of return storys with the passing of time.

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#22: October 09, 2011, 09:28:44 AM
Quote
RCR has made mention of this quite a bit.  A likely reason that many do not return is not because the MLCer didn't want to return eventually.....it likely has much more to do with there no longer being a Standing spouse.

She has said it, but we still don't know if it's true or not.
I really think that RCR or some other moderator who is interested should compile the data.  RCR has email addresses of everyone here.  It would be great to send around a survey every 6 months to gather data about what's happening.  If we kept data on everyone who has ever registered, we could get some great information over the next few years and be able to show the actual statistics for this site.

I do think that many of those who make it through MLC do eventually regret their actions on some level.  That doesn't necessarily mean they will want to return.  Some would likely put it all behind them and start over rather than having to work through all the issues.
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#23: October 09, 2011, 09:48:07 AM
"I do think that many of those who make it through MLC do eventually regret their actions on some level.  That doesn't necessarily mean they will want to return.  Some would likely put it all behind them and start over rather than having to work through all the issues."

I agree with this. I honestly believe that this is the exact scenario that is playing out in my situation. I just have to face it. I has been 2 years and 4 months since BD. Three weeks ago he sent me an email after many months without a word from him. He wrote that he regrets parting ways, he has been to a therapist and he wishes he would have seen one while we were together. He also said he just wanted me to know that he was always in love with me even through the bad times and that he considered me his best friend. He said he never wanted to regret not letting me know all of that.

I feel he's at a point where he does have regrets but that he's ready to learn from all mistakes and start over on a brand new path. Whether he was in MLC or not, I'm still not sure but I think he feels we were too different and he would never again want to even try again with me.
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Me 35 ~ Pisces   
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I was 13 ~ he was 15 ~ Together for 19 years. Doomed from the start?
We never married ~ no children ~ two cats ~ Bomb Drop ~ 6/22/09 ~ he left to be w/ the Op & Op's kid
Atomic Bomb Drop ~ 3/22/12 ~ found out they had a child in early February, 2012 ( 2 weeks before my BDay )

In 100 years, none of this will matter but time is still. (( hugs & prayers to all ))

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#24: October 09, 2011, 09:53:45 AM
loveisntweakness
"Some would likely put it all behind them and start over rather than having to work through all the issues."

This would tell me the MLCer is still in Avoidance and not through their crisis....and thus not ready to return.



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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#25: October 09, 2011, 03:19:56 PM
Avoidance isn't one of the stages.
I know we all want to believe that if we hang in long enough it will work out for us - I know I do, but I'm not sure that's the reality of it.
Not all MLCers get through their crisis.  I'm thinking my Dad may have been in MLC when he left my Mom.  He married his affair partner.  Mom has moved on.
I do believe my H was in MLC.  Classic, really.  But I'm not sure how that helps me.
He is over the worst of his replay.  For 2 years he pulled away from all of his old friends and was just nutso.  He's acting a bit more like himself now.  He may be pulling out of it.  He could be in depression/withdrawal now, but I don't know.  I used to believe he would be back.  Now I'm facing the reality that he may not.
This site has stretched Conway's 3-5 years on average to 2-7 years and some people say even more.  Well, an average is an average.  It's still 3-5 years.  Some can take longer.  Some should emerge more quickly.  Some never emerge.
Mine's at 4 years since BD.  At least 5 years into his crisis.  He should be emerging by now.  Conway says that the worst of it lasts about 3 years.
I'll hold on a bit longer, but not forever.
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#26: October 09, 2011, 03:37:49 PM
"Avoidance isn't one of the stages."

Avoidance is a descriptor of the Replay stage.....Escape & Avoid.

From RCR's MLC overview article
"This then leads to the Avoidance that is Replay"


"Not all MLCers get through their crisis"

Totally agree.  Most do according to several sources, but whether or not there remains a Standing spouse doesn't seem as likely.


"This site has stretched Conway's 3-5 years on average to 2-7 years and some people say even more."

I think it's Wiki that says 3-5 years in women, and 3-10 years in men.  In Women in Midlife Crisis, Conway says it lasts until the process is complete, which is generally 3-5 years.

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#27: October 09, 2011, 06:39:58 PM
I want everyone of you to know how much I appreciate you taking the time to thank me for posting this article. 

I found it a few weeks ago, and printed it out to read prior to going to sleep at night.  We all know how much validation we need to make it through the insanity.

It helps me to smile knowing I have contributed something valuable for everyone here.

Have a great week, and have faith this too shall pass!
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#28: October 10, 2011, 04:38:06 AM
Tsunami,

Thanks for posting this. It confirms things on this site and worded things a tad differently so I got some new insights. You are an awesome lady to put this out for us to read when I know you are going thru so much beyond the MLC s**t.

You are another Silver Lining in this for me.

HUGS
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#29: October 10, 2011, 04:51:39 AM
 Yeah Thanks Tsunami. I like the #1 spouse considers us part of them...that explains a lot. ::)
  Hey Learning, Where's your thread? I want to go on it... :)
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#30: October 10, 2011, 11:11:48 AM
Thanks Tsunami for the thread, first off.

Secondly, as Honour and DGU have mentioned this site is fairly new and most of us are in the earlier stages of this crap.  But, some here have been around awhile on other sites.  I posed the question on my thread but never got an answer:

For those who have spent time on DB, PathPartners, the infidelity sites and others are there many marriages that end up reconciled?  If so, are many of them with female MLCers and what has been your experience in these cases on how long it has taken?  I think OP, LG, DGU and maybe even RCR herself might have some insight into this.  Anyone?
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#31: October 10, 2011, 11:39:39 AM
They do happen, I posted one about Upside from the DB board, on the stickied thread.
I also am reading another one on another board right now.
This girl used to post on DB but was banned.
Meanwhile she is about 4-5 years post BD and her EX-H is reaching out to her right now.
She has been so badly hurt that she really does not want anything to do with him.

He is looking for foregiveness but I am not sure what will happen.
Oh BTW the LBS does not believe in MLC, she just thinks it was plain infidelity.
So I am watching with interest.

I think as I have stated before the success stories and endings are with a whimper not a bang.
We have 4 or more going on from this board right now.
Patience, Hyperglad, Courageous Wife, Anglegirl.

I know others that are success stories from other boards too.
What the percentages are I have no idea.
It does seem that the LBS's mostly give up before their is a chance.
Why is that?
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#32: October 10, 2011, 12:56:54 PM
 Inthisforthelonghaul is also attempting reconciliation with her xH.
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#33: October 12, 2011, 11:40:03 PM
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#34: October 13, 2011, 06:13:10 AM
For those who have spent time on DB, PathPartners, the infidelity sites and others are there many marriages that end up reconciled?  If so, are many of them with female MLCers and what has been your experience in these cases on how long it has taken?  I think OP, LG, DGU and maybe even RCR herself might have some insight into this.  Anyone?

Hi Thundarr, PP orphan here and lurker across the MLC boards for the past three years since DB. At the time of Pathpartners implosion there were 5 - 6 Male LBS's in recon on the board, about 30 Male LBS's early in the process and about 8 old timers providing wisdom (almost all of which had moved on to another partner fairly quickly, i.e. not standers).

There are/were a number of male LBS's on DB in recon.

So it does happen (guess your early in the process figuring out if its worth Standing through the destruction?)

Timelines varied, the guides (2 - 7, and 3 - 5 years) on here mirror those sites.

The majority of Males LBS seem to move on when the MCLers replay behaviours are at their worst.

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#35: October 13, 2011, 06:33:35 AM

Hi Thundarr, PP orphan here and lurker across the MLC boards for the past three years since DB. At the time of Pathpartners implosion there were 5 - 6 Male LBS's in recon on the board, about 30 Male LBS's early in the process and about 8 old timers providing wisdom (almost all of which had moved on to another partner fairly quickly, i.e. not standers).

There are/were a number of male LBS's on DB in recon.

So it does happen (guess your early in the process figuring out if its worth Standing through the destruction?)

Timelines varied, the guides (2 - 7, and 3 - 5 years) on here mirror those sites.

The majority of Males LBS seem to move on when the MCLers replay behaviours are at their worst.

Hey believe, welcome to our board, both RCR and I had posted on PP and DB.
RCR was/is Penelope and I had the same name.

Hope you can share some of your wisdom here and let us know if we can help you at all.
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#36: October 13, 2011, 06:55:31 AM
Hi Oldpilot, thanks for the warm welcome, I went under a different name on PP ( a much more pathetic, just been bombed type name ! ). Changed that to a more positive one  ;) afterall it has been over three years. Not sure about any wisdom but if I see anything I can assist with I'll add my two cents worth.

You'll probably question why I'm on the boards, we'll my little mlcer seems to be coming out of replay and this forum seems like a decent home for me, plus I'm re-reading resources so that I can navigate this new stage.

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#37: October 24, 2011, 10:01:10 PM
Bumping this up
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#38: October 25, 2011, 01:34:51 AM
Hi Thundarr, PP orphan here and lurker across the MLC boards for the past three years since DB. At the time of Pathpartners implosion
I'm not sure it imploded, I think it was terminated as a damage limitation exercise for the founder who was clearly revealing she was still in MLC.

The majority of Males LBS seem to move on when the MCLers replay behaviours are at their worst.
I have noticed that trend difference between the sexes with regard to standing and how to cope with an MLCer. On PP the guys that were in recon had pretty much adopted a Thermo Nuclear stance right from the off. A tough love stance. The delusion bubble was popped early on. With my W I believe there was a brief window early on where there was a chance she may have got better if I had adopted a TN approach and shone light into the darkness. But I didn't know that then and the days and weeks passed and she descended deeper and eventually vanished.

Whereas here, where the majority members are female and the MLCers are male, the advice is often "do not talk of D to the MLCer" or "no R talk". Be a lighthouse for him to find his way back.

I am not saying either approach is wrong or right, I am just noting the difference between the sexes.

Welcome believe, please keep us updated with your W's exit from Replay.

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#39: October 25, 2011, 04:35:17 AM
I'm not sure it imploded, I think it was terminated as a damage limitation exercise for the founder who was clearly revealing she was still in MLC.

Is that what happened?
WOW I did not know that, as I did not really have time to pay attention to everything happening on that board.

I thought she had recovered from her MLC.
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#40: October 25, 2011, 06:19:13 AM
Was that site run by Christine Schaap, who wrote "How to Survive Your Wife's Midlife Crisis"? If so, in reading that book I got the impression she was still in the middle of it as it seemed to put alot of blame on the H even though it claimed not to.

OP, I've heard mention of the Thermonuclear approach and was wondering what all of you PP veterans think of it.  Is it conceivable that the techniques that work with male MLCers may not be effective with females and vice versa?  Thoughts?
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#41: October 25, 2011, 06:36:34 AM


OP, I've heard mention of the Thermonuclear approach and was wondering what all of you PP veterans think of it.  Is it conceivable that the techniques that work with male MLCers may not be effective with females and vice versa?  Thoughts?

I am also interested in understanding what this is...
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#42: October 25, 2011, 07:03:50 AM
Was that site run by Christine Schaap, who wrote "How to Survive Your Wife's Midlife Crisis"? If so, in reading that book I got the impression she was still in the middle of it as it seemed to put alot of blame on the H even though it claimed not to.

OP, I've heard mention of the Thermonuclear approach and was wondering what all of you PP veterans think of it.  Is it conceivable that the techniques that work with male MLCers may not be effective with females and vice versa?  Thoughts?
As far as I could tell no one at PP who made it to recon did so using the methods CS advocated in her book. The guys who were in recon did the opposite.

CS advocates a softly softly approach, let the W get on with it and have her A.

Those that did recon shone light into the darkness. Friends were told about the adultery, work colleagues, they cut them off from the toxic support network, cut them out of the finances etc etc...if the W wanted OM she could take him, but she had to make the decision in or out and everyone would know why she was out.

Early in my situation when W was just coming to terms with the guilt of what she had done, I was following the CS advice and I said to my W that it was no one's business what had happened, no one needed to know anything, basically I was following my instinct to protect, and when I said those words my W gave me a smile. It was a curious smile. I wasn't sure what it meant at the time. I know what it meant now. I had just given her the green light. She could carry on doing what she was doing without being bothered by public shame. And W span off into deeper MLC never never land.

My take is that a high energy female MLCer has totally lost all empathy and if they detect any softness in the LBS you are roadkill.

Thundarr, I asked my daughter to read the CS book. My daughter didn't like it, she said it is excusing affairs.

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#43: October 25, 2011, 03:38:47 PM
So today, I am doing my usual research in regards to MLC, and found this thread and felt sharing this link would help others understand the depression from a different perspective. 
The title of the thread is...

MLC DEPRESSION IS TORTURE

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=173939&page=1






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« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 03:41:00 PM by Tsunami »
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#44: October 25, 2011, 04:32:20 PM
My two cents, MLCers are capable of relashionships years long ones, with OW/OM. If they are unable to handle stree they do a pretty good job handleing it for years and years and years. They manage to do it for longer that a sane person would.

Anne, I think you hit on a major point, here.

I believe that MLC theory maintains that a big reason for the crisis is because the MLCer (is stubborn) does everything humanly possible to avoid working through their personal issues.  Of course, that doesn't suggest that the issues are conscious...  but they won't discuss with anyone, even therapists, about whatever skeletons they might have in their closets...

So the just keep pushing down that stress...  and it eventually overwhelms them to the point where they really don't understand who they are, perhaps the onset of the fog, and then just start "acting out" in whatever ways their subconscious requires as they finally begin to spill out their internal issues from their minds...

Think you're right, kaffe, the MLCer is stubborn and does everything to avoid work on their issues. Don't think that, for the most part, the issues are conscious. They know something is not well with them but they don't know what is the problem, what are the issues.

Would say that, at some point, they will start spill the internal issues of their mind, many times through totally reckless behaviour. And, of course there are the fog and the tunnel. What a lethal cocktail.

“Depression Sign #13: ML'ERS ARE INDIFFERENT

Indifferent is defined as "without interest or concern, not caring, disinterested, impartial and apathetic". Nothing is harder to live with than an indifferent person. Ml'ers are indifferent primarily toward their past life. They are no longer interested in what the LBS, children, relatives, dog, cat, best friend, or church group are doing. They could care less about the lawn being cut, the algae in the pool, the leaking roof, or the bills being paid. Their past life no longer exists. They truly become "aliens" to people who love them. There are many reasons why this happens. ML'ers are self absorbed and don't want to focus on anyone but themselves. ML'ers no longer want any responsibility in their lives and just want to have fun and freedom. People and things of the past remind the ML'er of their failures. What better way to not have to deal with their pain then to pretend people and things don't exist anymore.



This "indifference" creates a whole new set of problems for the LBS. They now have the responsibilities of two people. The LBS becomes overworked and overwhelmed not to mention emotionally devastated. Many times they become financially devastated as well. The ML'er does not seem to notice the turmoil they have caused the LBS and again are "indifferent".”

Talk about indifferent and a LBS that become financially devastated. Today I realised that, for the first time in my life, I was in debt. Not colossal, it can be worked out, but it is one more strain to all this madness. And the debt only exists because of all the mess husband caused, including having to go to court. Strange thing is I did not feel like killing husband…I just feel like, I need a break! I need out of this thing! The other part of me says, it is gonna take ages for you to get over this stuff, let alone get back the level of life I used to have. Well, that level of life is gone since mid 2007…Oh, dear…

And yes, I’m overworked and overwhelmed. Even if I’m not angry, I GAL, and so on, but, somedays this all thing comes crushing down on you…
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#45: October 27, 2011, 07:22:57 PM
Really REALLY good illustration of depression here:
http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2011/10/adventures-in-depression.html
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#46: October 27, 2011, 07:32:53 PM
Early in my situation when W was just coming to terms with the guilt of what she had done, I was following the CS advice and I said to my W that it was no one's business what had happened, no one needed to know anything, basically I was following my instinct to protect, and when I said those words my W gave me a smile. It was a curious smile. I wasn't sure what it meant at the time. I know what it meant now. I had just given her the green light. She could carry on doing what she was doing without being bothered by public shame. And W span off into deeper MLC never never land.

I did that at first as well. Wanted to protect, though it was no one business but mine and husband's. What a big mistake. He also went on withou being bothered by public shame and still is in very deep MCL la la la land. So, looks like we have to go against what we think it is better and let everyone know.
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#47: February 10, 2012, 02:13:49 PM
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#48: February 28, 2012, 02:27:20 PM
Noticed Kikki posted this in MLC resources, and so I thought I would bump this up for newbies.
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#49: February 28, 2012, 02:32:11 PM
Thanks Tsunami - I couldn't for the life of me remember where I'd first read it, but it was here on this thread.
I'd printed it out months ago, and sometimes go back and read it.  Really helpful.
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#50: February 28, 2012, 06:08:52 PM
HEY Look at that!  Thanks Tsunami!

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#51: February 28, 2012, 08:30:28 PM
Hi Tsunami!  Good to look down the list and see your name. I hope all is well, well as well as well can be.

I am kind of single I guess although I keep being reminded  :) by those here that a separation means I am still married...seems like a rather strange marriage.....

Thinking about you and keep holding onto hope...I was always fond of that phrase "it ain't over until the fat lady sings" or something of that nature!
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https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#52: February 28, 2012, 09:09:34 PM
xyzcf, I am still here everyday, but don't have a thread or post anymore.  I think you know the history behind that decision.

Court stuff is ramping up again, so I'm starting to get into that freak out mode again.  Delaying lamniplasty, trying to buy myself time to avoid a financial settlement too early.  Should have NEVER done all the yardwork last year by myself, but I'm a hard headed old broad.

Still saying my daily prayers for the LBS and the kids who are in the middle of all of the confusion.

Like I told Thundarr earlier...."We should give this crap up for lent!"

Thanks for all the warm welcome backs, when I didn't ever leave in the first place, you all have helped me to smile tonight.

Pet Kacy for me.

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#53: February 28, 2012, 09:15:33 PM
 :)  Hey..Kaci and I were just heading to bed...smiling right back at you!

Keep up the prayers..If I had a nickel for every prayer that has been said......

I'm getting better....going to travel a bit in May, have started a very intense voluteer position with children in placement..something to get my teeth into....staying in my home (yippee) and finding myself again..I had lost me for such a long time that it is interesting to get to know her again.

Please let us know if you have surgery....ok?
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#54: February 29, 2012, 04:54:00 AM
Tsunami:

LOL, if only!

Quote
Like I told Thundarr earlier...."We should give this crap up for lent!"

Remember you told me you were getting out in that sunshine today!  You know we are all deficient in vitamin D! :)

Sassy
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CRe: Signs of Depression during MLC
#55: March 01, 2012, 07:35:52 PM
Bless me Sassy, I lied, but that's because it rained.

Just saw Gallager posted on your thread in regards to her MLC reading this list.  So out of curiosity, how many of you have shared this list with your MLC'er?  I would be very interested in hearing their response to it, and if they felt it was accurate.

Also, since this thread has been so hot this week, posting to bump up for those that have not had the opportunity to read it.

Many thanks, and keeping you all in my prayers.
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#56: March 02, 2012, 02:11:08 AM
Tsunami --

I have no idea how I seemed to have missed this the first time round, and you are right, it is "hot" right now, rightly so.   

I'm not in any position to share this with my MLCer, don't actually know if that would ever be a good idea. 
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#57: March 02, 2012, 05:00:17 AM
As you know, I showed it to my MLC'er and he stated that it was spot on.  Not that makes me feel better, but it is validating.

Sassy
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#58: March 02, 2012, 08:41:42 AM
Thanks for the bump...LOL!
I didn't read this the first time around but definitely makes you understand and see so much of it in my H anyway
I would like to show it to him ONE day!
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#59: March 02, 2012, 06:03:06 PM
T,

Thanks for the bump.  I, too, missed it first time around.  What a great article.

I printed it out and took it to my therapy session today.  My T and I spent a lot of time talking about the "MLCers have affairs" item.  Wow!  That's a powerful one.

Thanks again for bringing this back up. 

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#60: October 02, 2012, 04:35:45 PM
Bumping this up for the newbies on the site.
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30 SIGNS of MLC / DEPRESSION
#61: October 18, 2013, 03:46:16 PM
This is copied from Sassyone's post from February, 2012.  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2231.msg131255#msg131255
Abbreviation Key
ML: midlife MLC: midlife crisis  MLCer: midlife crisis-ers (person going through MLC) OW/OM: other woman/man LBS: left behind spouse



30 SIGNS of MidLifeCrisis / DEPRESSION

Depression sign #1: MLC'ERS WILL OFTEN VIEW THEIR LBS AND THEMSELVES AS ONE PERSON

The reason behind the MLC'ers lack of boundaries comes because they do not view their LBS separate from themselves. They are so engulfed in negativity that they do not think clearly. As MLC'ers look to their loved ones to define and deliver their happiness, MLC'er eventually feel betrayed due to happiness being an internal thing not external. This "feeling" of betrayal may cause some of the anger we see in our MLC'ers.

Depression sign #2: MLC'ERS ARE UNABLE TO SUSTAIN AND MAINTAIN RELATIONSHIPS AS WELL AS RESOLVE RELATIONSHIP PROBLEMS.

Because of their irrational ways of thinking mainly due to a chemical imbalance in the brain, MLC'ers will hear/interpret WHAT THEY THINK others are saying rather than hearing what really is being said. They destroy these relationships by hearing blame rather than suggestions or means to problem solve.

Depression sign #3: MLC'S HAVE DEPENDENT PERSONALITIES.

We are overly dependent on others when we do not feel complete or whole. This is the very essence of a ML'er. As they continue through the tunnel, the ML'er gets much worse before they get better. The LBS is often forced into a "caregiver" role, trying desperately to fix the crisis. The ML'er becomes aware of their neediness and becomes jealous/envious of their loved ones strengths and efforts to help. Thus the ML'er responds with more anger.

Depression sign #4: ML'ERS ARE UNABLE TO SHOW EMOTIONAL SUPPORT

ML'ers are unable to stand the emotional pain they are creating. They become distant and indifferent to their loved ones. They view the LBS's as the cause of their own suffering and therefore treat them as strangers/enemies.

Depression sign #5: ML'ERS ARE EXTREME ATTENTION SEEKERS

Attention both positive and negative can confirm love and self-worth to the ML'er. To some ML'ers negative attention becomes better than no attention. Many have experienced "no attention" periods in their childhoods. Many ML'ers use drama, sinfulness, and confusion in an effort to get love. This then ensures the ML'er of keeping their LBS's close.

Depression sign #6: ML'ERS ARE SELF-CENTERED

It is all about them. As they become more absorbed in finding themselves, everyone else in their past life gradually becomes more and more obsolete. Most find their way back to what is really important - family and commitment. Unfortunately, they leave a heavy path of destruction which has to be faced.

Depression sign #7: ML'ER'S ARE UNABLE TO TRUST

How can ML'ers trust their LBS if they cannot trust themselves? Their emotions and thought processes are unpredictable and irrational. When ML'ers cannot trust, they often act out in angry outbursts and infidelity. They are searching for someone to reflect back to them an image of perfection and often heroism.

Depression sign #8: ML'ERS ARE UNABLE TO HANDLE STRESS

As ML'ers progress through the tunnel they become more and more unable to handle stress. Their life is now full of lies, deceptions, betrayals and manipulations. It becomes harder and harder to maintain their superficial world. Once they are reminded of some bit of reality revealing their inabilities and flaws, they react by getting angry, blaming, spewing, etc...

They do anything to avoid taking responsibility for their actions. If you doubt this try talking "relationship talks". You will no doubt be disappointed in the outcome. Until they are ready to repent and show remorse for their behaviors, relationship talks are useless.

Depression Sign #9: ML'ERS REWRITE HISTORY

Ml'ers typically have very low self-esteem. They will rewrite past events in their favor to try to build up their fragile egos. They would rather lie than face the possibility that something is wrong with them, let alone a mental illness. Many Ml'ers brain chemistry is skewed, not allowing them to distinguish between reality and distorted perceptions. However the distortions cannot go on forever.... As time goes on, they often get caught in their lies due to not being able to keep their stories straight.

Depression Sign #10: MOST ML'ERS HAVE AFFAIRS

The most painful and devastating part of the MLC for the LBS and family is the affair or series of affairs. Emotional affairs as well as physical affairs occur and most emotional affairs turn into physical affairs for the ML'er. Some of the affairs result in producing a "love child". Some result in the Ml'er marrying the OW/OM. Even though the ML'er is not thinking clearly, there is no justification or excuse for committing adultery. This post is by no means meant to excuse their behavior. It is unacceptable. If it is forgivable depends upon the LBS and the ML'ers ability to repent and show sincere remorse.

An affair allows the Ml'er a distraction from the pain resulting from one or more of the following issues: childhood abandonment/abuse, grief, aging, health, job loss or dissatisfaction, parenting, sexual dysfunction, or financial. Ml'ers feel if they start over with someone else, all their issues will go away. Little do they realize how much they have just complicated their life not to mention all the pain they will inflict on "loved ones" and friends. They are self-absorbed and only care about trying to obtain their happiness.

The OW/OM knows little or nothing of the Ml'ers history or flaws. They are fed "rewriting of history" reports from the ML'er on their spouse or significant other. They start the relationship by idealizing the Ml'er. The Ml'er can portray him/herself as heroic, perfect, and accomplished. Both individuals are living a fantasy. Each believes they have found their soul mate. Newness of a relationship and sex partner is empowering. Morality is no longer important. Lust equals love in the Ml'ers mind.

The OW/OM are extremely flawed individuals. They have many issues as well. Some identical to the ML'er which helps create the "connection" so many Ml'ers claim they are missing with their LBS. Ml'ers choose someone who is safe. They choose someone who will not outshine them or pose a threat. The OW/OM is usually a very insecure, fragile individual who needs to be taken care of in some way, shape or form. In many cases, the ML'er tries to create in the OW/OM a version of their LBS. Some encourage them to dress and act like the LBS. They will often take them to the same places as they did the LBS. Being of weak character and integrity, the OW/OM allows this and goes along for the ride. Many are in it for the financial and social status benefits that the ML'er brings to the table. The ML'er is usually not looking at finding someone better than their LBS. They want to find someone that they can feel superior to which will help nurture their bruised egos.

Eventually, chemical imbalances, stress, and doses of reality hit the Ml'er causing them to display their true selves. Fears resurface in the Ml'er materializing as anger and hostility. The OW/OM no longer reflects back to the Ml'er intense feelings of admiration and perfection. Sex becomes routine. Many experience sexual dysfunction during the MLC, but very much want to portray themselves as sexually potent individuals. Responsibilities increase for the ML'er especially if they are maintaining two households. Their world collapses very slowly. Almost to the point of being hard to detect for the LBS. The ML'er has come full circle. He/she is now at the same place they started. What the ML'er does at this point varies. Some go home after they realize the grass is not greener on the other side, others stay in this miserable state of self-pity and despair, and others just repeat the cycle and find OW/OM #2.

Depression sign #11: ML'ERS ARE CONTROL FREAKS

Ml'ers have no control over their behaviors and actions. They feel if they can control others as well as their environment they will eventually become whole again. This of course is not true. In fact, it usually has the opposite effect. The more controlling one is with others, the more we push them away.

How does the ML'er control others? By being verbally/physically abusive, manipulating, complaining, criticizing, blaming, saying things like "I want a divorce", "I never loved you", "I love you, but I am not in love with you", being impossible to please, having an affair, threatening to take your children away, threatening your living arrangements, threatening your financial status, losing his/her job, threatening suicide, etc. The list can go on and on.....

How does the Ml'er control their environment? Moving constantly, traveling more than usual, changing jobs, changing what they eat, changing how they dress, changing their overall appearance, what they drive, changing their friends, replacing their spouse, replacing their children, etc....

It is only when the ML'er realizes that they are not in ultimate control of others or things that a breakthrough can occur. That is why setting boundaries are important. It makes the ML'er realize their limitations and lack of control. Boundaries should be set in a firm but loving way. Ml'ers are more willing to respond to LBS's requests when this is done in a non-authoritative way.
Depression sign #12: ML'ERS HAVE EXTREME ANGER/RAGING/SPEWING

Mid-life crisis is a form of depression. Depression is anger turned inward. Unfortunately anger is a large part of the MLC journey. Anger is the path of least resistance. It is easier for the ML'er to be angry than to deal with his/her issues. Until that pain is acknowledged, and experienced, it continues to trigger anger and depression.

Beneath anger lies pain, and beneath that pain lies fear. If we remember this, we are more likely to become more sympathetic to the ML'ers journey. Unfortunately at times, it is very difficult to do. The bulk of the ML'ers anger is directed at the LBS. Ml'ers very much want to alter the perceptions of the LBS' to match theirs.

Depression Sign #13: ML'ERS ARE INDIFFERENT

Indifferent is defined as "without interest or concern, not caring, disinterested, impartial and apathetic". Nothing is harder to live with than an indifferent person. Ml'ers are indifferent primarily toward their past life. They are no longer interested in what the LBS, children, relatives, dog, cat, best friend, or church group are doing. They could care less about the lawn being cut, the algae in the pool, the leaking roof, or the bills being paid. Their past life no longer exists. They truly become "aliens" to people who love them. There are many reasons why this happens. ML'ers are self absorbed and don't want to focus on anyone but themselves. ML'ers no longer want any responsibility in their lives and just want to have fun and freedom. People and things of the past remind the ML'er of their failures. What better way to not have to deal with their pain then to pretend people and things don't exist anymore.

This "indifference" creates a whole new set of problems for the LBS. They now have the responsibilities of two people. The LBS becomes overworked and overwhelmed not to mention emotionally devastated. Many times they become financially devastated as well. The ML'er does not seem to notice the turmoil they have caused the LBS and again are "indifferent".

Depression sign #14: ML'ERS CAN BE NARCISSISTIC

The ML'er is full of low self-worth. By focusing on their appearance, their possessions, and their needs they try to project an air of importance, mortality, and perfection. They seek attention by focusing on superficial things and soon discover that these things bring only fleeting moments of happiness. No matter how many times you remind the ML'er that happiness comes from within, they try to prove you wrong by buying the next item or enhancing another body part.
Everything is about the ML'er. Everybody else's needs don't exist.

Depression sign #15: ML'ERS MAKE POOR DECISIONS

Ml'ers base their decisions on emotions as well as faulty perceptions due to chemical imbalances in the brain. This prevents them from functioning properly in important areas of their life like the workplace and home. As they make their way through the mid life tunnel, they make more and more poor decisions eventually causing them to doubt their abilities. This is just another hit on their already low self-esteem.

This is where the role of the OW/OM comes into play. ML'ers often will give up some of their decision making power at this point and depend on their "soul mates" to intervene. The OW/OM may or may not have clearer thinking at this time but you can bet their thinking will be in THEIR favor. The ML'er is much easier to convince, manipulate and persuade than ever. Since this is not a relationship based on trust and love, each player in this dysfunctional relationship is out for himself/herself.

Ml'ers also will often choose not to make any decisions due to their mass confusion.

Depression sign #16: ML'ERS ARE POOR MONEY MANAGERS

ML'ers have no control over what they do with their money. They tend to be very impulsive and often spend like crazy and make bad investments. They also use their money to satisfy and impress the OW/OM in their life as well as new found friends. Traveling seems to increase. Credit cards are often used to their limit and they have no awareness of the consequences of their debt. Their past financial responsibilities such as bills, supporting their LBS and children are put on hold. This is no longer important to them and they seem oblivious to how they affect others. It is important that the LBS protect themselves financially at this time and sometimes that means resorting to legal assistance to prevent involvement with collection agencies and bankruptcy. Spending serves as a distraction as well as a feeling of power and control to the ML'er. Money makes them feel immortal and special. This feeling slowly dissipates as they face their pain and debt.

Depression sign #17: MOST ML'ERS ARE ABUSIVE

This is one of the most serious signs of depression - abuse.
Here I will focus on emotional abuse rather than physical abuse because I feel it is more prevalent in the ML'ers journey.

Emotional abuse can be divided into various categories:

A. Withholding: By withholding love, affection, accolades, sex, children, communication, etc.. the Ml'er is saying I have something you want and I can withhold it from you. The Ml'er can take this even a step further by withholding love and affection from you and then giving it to someone else.

B. Discounting: By discounting the LBS' perceptions, the Ml'er is saying I can point out your uselessness.

C. Accusing and blaming: By blaming the LBS, the Ml'er is saying the LBS is to blame for their pain no matter what they do to you so they don't have to stop or be accountable.

D. Judging and criticizing: By judging the LBS, the Ml'er is saying to the LBS that when I tell you that something is wrong with your thoughts and actions, I put myself in charge of you.

E. Threatening: This a way for the ML'er to have control over the LBS to imply that they will take away something valuable to them, such as family life, financial stability, home, etc....

F. Name Calling: By calling names, the Ml'er is saying to the LBS that they are worthless and don't exist.

G. Denial: By denying what they are doing to you, the Ml'er can keep everything like it is and not take any responsibility for their behavior.

H. Abusive anger: By being extremely angry and raging, the Ml'er is saying as long as I am scary I can have my way.

The most common element of the categories of abuse is control. The Ml'er avoids his feelings of insecurity and powerlessness by controlling the LBS. If the Ml'er does not have anyone to have power over, they don't have any power. They often connect with someone who is easier to control and won't resist their need to dominate. It is in debate if a Ml'er does these behaviors intentionally. I think it can vary with the Ml'er. Some do not seem to have awareness that they are hurting others. Most Ml'ers seem to be totally out of character and are labeled "aliens" by their standers. The thing that is very confusing to the stander is that often ML'ers can control these behaviors in front of others, but seem to let loose when alone with the stander.

Depression sign #18: ML'ERS MAY ABUSE ALCOHOL AND DRUGS

Another escape from reality is the use/abuse of alcohol and drugs. Those who never used on a regular basis may start experimenting with various substances. Those who routinely used may increase their usage of alcohol or drugs or both.
Substance abuse may deepen the ML'ers depression only causing them more pain and problems. Misery loves company and many times the ML'er will choose to associate with people who also resort to alcohol and drug abuse.

Depression sign #19: ML'ERS CAN EXPERIENCE SEXUAL DYSFUNCTION

Hormonal changes cause the physical symptoms of menopause in woman (irregular periods, decreased fertility, etc...). Hormonal changes cause the physical symptoms of andropause in men (decrease bone density, hair loss, etc...). Hormonal changes in both men and woman can cause emotional problems such as depression.

Most people know that woman go through menopause. Men can go through what is called andropause - a male menopause so to speak. Andropause is characterized by a loss of testosterone. This affects some men more than others. Woman experience a loss of estrogen. This affects some woman more than others. Both males and females experience similar symptoms during this time, irritability, loss of libido in women and erection problems in men, sleep disturbances, mood swings, and depression. Mid life crisis involves ones hormonal, psychological, interpersonal, social, sexual and spiritual components.

Depression sign #20: SOME MLERS EXHIBIT JEALOUSY

Ml'ers exhibit jealousy as a method of control. Many have fears of abandonment and loss. ML'ers show jealousy because of their feelings of emptiness. Deep down they are terrified of losing their loved ones but feel it may be inevitable. ML'ers sense that they will no longer feel needy if they can only control their LBS.

Depression sign #21: ML'ERS ARE FULL OF SELF-PITY

Ml'ers really hate themselves. They may or may not show this to their LBS, but that is what is brewing underneath all their horrible behavior. Often, childhood issues come to the surface and feelings of rejection and abandonment prevail. Because of their self-hate and low self esteem, they have difficulty accepting that their LBS cares for them. Some ML'ers will express this by statements such as, "You cannot love me like I need to be loved", "Why don't you date other people", "the kids would be better off with a different father", “Why don’t you hate me”, etc..... They are so involved with their pity party that nothing else matters to them.

Depression Sign #22: ML'ERS DON'T WANT ANY RESPONSIBILITY

Before their crisis, most Ml'ers were very responsible, productive members of their home and work environment. Not anymore. Life is a party and they want to have fun. Many Ml'ers lose their jobs, stop working around the house, ignore their children, don't pay their bills, spend foolishly, etc... the list goes on and on. They actually feel that this is the time for them to get everything THEY want out of life and other people need to take care of THEIR responsibilities. Chemical imbalances cause them to lose focus and control of themselves. The LBS is forced to take on all the ML'ers responsibilities as well as their own. This is usually not acknowledged by the Ml'er or appreciated. In fact, they will use this as an opportunity to criticize or cut down the LBS' way of handling things. This gives them the opportunity to disconnect even more from the LBS and their family. It is only when their world starts falling apart do they realize how irresponsible they have been in their work and home environment. Guilty feelings will then set in and eventually processed by the Ml'er in later stages.

Depression sign #23: ML'ERS ARE VERY SENSITIVE TO CRITICISM

Ml'ers have this intense need to be respected and admired. They are overly sensitive to any suggestions, comments, helpful remarks and criticisms. Any comments even remotely critical are perceived as attacks on their already low self-esteem. Ml'ers will take these "perceived attacks" and deflect them by finding fault in their LBS. Usually these acts of finding fault are either non-existent or exaggerated remarks or incidents.

Depression sign #24: ML'ERS USE PROJECTION AS A DEFENSE MECHANISM

Psychological projection is a defense mechanism in which one attributes one's own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts or/and actions to others. Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted subconscious impulses/desires without letting the conscious mind recognize them.

Depression sign #25: ML'ERS CREATE CONFLICT/ARGUMENTS WITH LOVED ONES

Ml'ers create conflict/arguments with their LBS in order to have them respond in a NEGATIVE way. When the LBS responds in a negative way, i.e. anger, crying, panic, criticism, rejection, etc.... this enables the Ml'er to attach blame to LBS' normal defensive reactions. This also enables the Ml'er to justify their horrible behavior to themselves and others. For example, my ex started an argument with me one day on the way back from the grocery store. He said I should of been spending time with him alone instead of shopping for food for the kids. I told him how silly he was behaving and became angry. By the time we got home, he was so upset at my "insensitivity to his needs" that he left the house for that day and spent his time with the other woman.
Not only was this a way for him to make me look bad, but it was also a way for him to justify being with his "soulmate".

Depression sign #26: ML'ERS ARE IN DENIAL

Along with projection, DENIAL is another major defense mechanism that mid-lifers use. Denial is the psychological process by which human beings protect themselves from things which threaten them by blocking knowledge of those things from their awareness. It is a defense that distorts reality; it keeps us from feeling the pain and uncomfortable truth about things we do not want to face. If we cannot feel or see the consequences of our actions, then everything is fine and we can continue to live without making any changes.

When Ml'ers are feeling badly, they will often associate these painful feelings with their LBS instead of taking responsibility for their own actions. Getting rid of their LBS seems to be for them the only way of escape. Denial can become increasingly worse as the Ml'er continues on his journey. Their list of bad behavior and deeds becomes so long that there is no better place to be than the world of denial. The Ml'er becomes unrecognizable to their loved ones until various circumstances force the ml'er to examine the hell they have created. These circumstances may involve excessive debt, unwanted pregnancy, loss of job, fractured family, divorce, drug and alcohol abuse, loss of friends, homelessness, etc…

Depression sign #27: ML'ERS BECOME VERY COMPETITIVE WITH LOVED ONES

When a spouse is in mid life crisis, their LBS as well as other close family members become the enemy. Ml'ers are constantly comparing their loved ones with themselves. Many times they fall short and this leads to further insecurity and self-doubt. During their journey, they are out to prove that they are important and admired and become very competitive. They will withhold compliments/achievements toward important family members at this time. They begin to choose people in their lives that will make them feel good about themselves. Usually this means choosing people who are less accomplished and lower in character in order to make themselves feel better about themselves.

Depression sign #28: ML'ERS HAVE MAJOR MOOD SWINGS

This is a very obvious sign of depression but worth writing about. Family members who witness this depression sign often feel like they are going insane. The frequency of the mood swings with mid-lifers varies. Some experience rapid cycling, others much slower. Loved ones describe their mid-lifers as having Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde personalities. They begin to feel like they are walking on egg-shells. The littlest thing can set the mid-lifer into a rage or period of depression. Some family members may feel their mid-lifer is on drugs. These mood swings may or may not affect the work environment. Some mid-lifers are better at controlling what they let others see. This therefore leaves the LBS feeling responsible for the mood swings and their world begins to fill with self-doubt.

Depression sign #29: ML'ERS ARE MANIPULATIVE

People become manipulative when they are afraid of losing something of value to them. This can range from fear of losing an actual person or losing a perception that someone has of them. Mid-lifers manipulate loved ones in believing their reality, which at times can be very distorted due to chemical imbalances in the brain, guilt, shame, denial, self-centeredness, etc... Examples of mid-lifers being manipulative can involve twisting words around, creating confusion, drama, rewriting of history, lying, etc... Unfortunately the mid-lifers use of manipulation usually ends up pushing people away from them.

Depression sign #30: MLC'ERS HAVE WITHDRAWING/ABANDONING BEHAVIORS

Another very painful characteristic of the mid life journey is when they abandon/withdraw from loved ones. This varies with each mid-lifer changing with each stage. It can range from emotionally withdrawing to physically abandoning their entire family. Many are simply just imitating a part of their childhood when they experienced some form of abandonment or abuse. Many use it as a form of control and power. To some, it is easier to run than face their demons, so they hide to get away from things and people that remind them of their pain or failures. Regardless of the reason, these behaviors leave loved ones in shock and confusion. Mid-lifers are oblivious to the pain and suffering they cause. Many LBS' lose their homes, self-esteem, children, etc... due to the abandonment.
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« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 03:49:39 PM by WeepingWillow »
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Re: 30 SIGNS of MLC / DEPRESSION
#62: November 11, 2013, 08:51:47 PM
Jumping in, thank you for this very useful article.
It has been a source of comfort for me today, really put things in perspective.
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Re: 30 SIGNS of MLC / DEPRESSION
#63: November 12, 2013, 12:54:31 AM
Yes, I read this article from time to time. It helps with getting to grips with the situation.
It really helps with reinforcing the fact that their crisis has nothing to do with us and it helps a great deal with detachment.
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Re: 30 SIGNS of MLC / DEPRESSION
#64: November 12, 2013, 01:19:29 AM

Thanks WW, sometimes seeing it in black and white provides some comfort .

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Re: 30 SIGNS of MLC / DEPRESSION
#65: November 13, 2013, 04:01:47 AM
Very insightful! Thank you!
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Re: 30 SIGNS of MLC / DEPRESSION
#66: November 13, 2013, 05:01:00 AM
I remember seeing this early on in my reading. Thanks for re-posting it. Every time I read this I can identify various traits and actions in my MLCer and it helps keep things in perspective!


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Re: 30 SIGNS of MLC / DEPRESSION
#67: December 16, 2013, 03:02:43 PM
Very good insight! I needed this today and it really helped! Thanks for the post, I'm glad I came across this information!!!

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Re: 30 SIGNS of MLC / DEPRESSION
#68: December 16, 2013, 03:26:54 PM
So you've met my H, lol. Apart from one or two things it describes my H to a tee :) Whenever I question whether or not he is in MLC, I'll look back at this and think yes he is :)
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Re: 30 SIGNS of MLC / DEPRESSION
#69: December 21, 2013, 08:02:47 PM
Thanks for this post.

Sign #13: It should read 'Couldn't care less'

Cheers

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Re: 30 SIGNS of MLC / DEPRESSION
#70: December 21, 2013, 11:50:37 PM
Well that sums it up nicely.
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Re: 30 SIGNS of MLC / DEPRESSION
#71: December 22, 2013, 12:35:06 AM
Somewhere here there is the information about the author; does anyone remember where that was?

Also, would it be possible to "sticky" this list?  It is something that I think many of us would fine useful to refer to again and again....
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Re: 30 SIGNS of MLC / DEPRESSION
#72: December 22, 2013, 01:11:10 AM
Quote
Somewhere here there is the information about the author; does anyone remember where that was?

I can't find the original link, but it was written by someone called Trusting on the Divorce Busting forum.  I remember she said that her H was in crisis, and she was a mental health care worker and adjusted the common signs of depression to fit MLC.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869
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« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 09:20:22 AM by kikki »

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Signs of Depression During MLC
#73: June 24, 2014, 06:22:22 PM
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1646.0

I'm re-posting this for the newbies and highly suggest all the newbies go to the bottom of the site page, and read posts in the archives, you will find a world of information there you may not find on story threads.

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Re: Signs of Depression During MLC
#74: June 24, 2014, 08:13:30 PM
Thank you for reporting this. I had ran across it once a few weeks ago and felt I gained so much by reading it.
((Hugs)) to all
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Re: 30 SIGNS of MLC / DEPRESSION
#76: June 30, 2014, 12:44:30 PM
I shook my head "yes" to every single one.  Why does the rest of the world think MLC is a joke?  If MLC is real i have no doubts that my H has it. 

It's funny, the 30 years i have been with my h his mother had every article and remedy for every pretend disease that she could find.  Why is it now that all his family members just shrug their shoulders and say oh well people get divorced???
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Re: 30 SIGNS of MLC / DEPRESSION
#77: June 30, 2014, 02:23:45 PM
Great article, and strangely comforting when you see it all in black and white.
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Re: 30 SIGNS of MLC / DEPRESSION
#78: June 30, 2014, 02:31:27 PM
Attached for reference
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Re: 30 SIGNS of MLC / DEPRESSION
#79: June 30, 2014, 05:22:54 PM
My O My!!! Thank you for this article. I think my H has all 30 of these nailed and continues on his replay. Like Groundhog day. That's what I call it. Everyone here says its a long journey and I know I've been in the depths of it since at least 2010 and maybe prior. I am putting together the reasoning behind detaching. I know  I can't take anymore...let it go!
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Re: 30 SIGNS of MLC / DEPRESSION
#80: June 30, 2014, 07:42:33 PM
Such a good reminder. Thank you.
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Re: 30 SIGNS of MLC / DEPRESSION
#81: June 30, 2014, 07:52:22 PM
Thank you for this post.  I am making sure I check back here frequently just to remind myself this is about H not my fault.  He is so textbook.  A little slow, as we have been at this for a while, but textbook none the less.  Thanks!
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Re: 30 SIGNS of MLC / DEPRESSION
#82: June 30, 2014, 08:17:23 PM
I read this article for the first time and wow.
It hit my X on so many points.

Thanks for posting it.

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Signs of Depression in MLC
#83: June 03, 2015, 07:42:33 AM
This s a good thread for the newbies - actually is good thread for everyone. It helps me put things in perspective.
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« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 04:23:42 PM by Anjae »
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Re: Signs of Depression in MLC
#84: June 03, 2015, 07:56:44 AM
Number 2...yes, yes and yes.  Mine is still VERY sensitive to what I say and takes it out of context. 
The yard looks nice?   So it didn't before?

Maybe it might be a good idea to....  I KNOW that!

I don't even give advice anymore unless he asks.  Let him figure out things for himself.   :)
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Re: Signs of Depression in MLC
#85: June 03, 2015, 08:22:31 AM
I haven't read this in a quite a while - now that I am further along I see my MLCer checking off several of these :o

#11 MLCer's are Control Freaks
Quote
How does the Ml'er control their environment? Moving constantly, traveling more than usual, changing jobs, changing what they eat, changing how they dress, changing their overall appearance, what they drive, changing their friends, replacing their spouse, replacing their children, etc....

I never thought about the travelling as a control issue - I just took as running (escape). This is my MLCer right now!
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Re: Signs of Depression in MLC
#86: June 03, 2015, 10:06:07 AM
I have link on that thread in my signature long, long time, intention that newbees read it. :)
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#87: June 03, 2015, 09:56:54 PM
WOW!!  Holy smoke!  My H is doing A LOT of these things. Some have been going on for a good 2 years or more. The crazy thing is, I saw some of these and asked him about them and said things to other people. I was told by others that it was "nothing" and by him that it was just work. The money stuff was all in my head. He did not make as much as I thought.  I have done the math a million times after checking the bank balance. We always should have had more left than we ever did.

Thanks for posting this!  It helped give me more insight.
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#88: June 04, 2015, 01:01:28 AM
Thanks for bumping this-I'd forgotten some of these signs. He has them all.

I asked him why he was always frowning the Summer before BD.

He said he was a grumpy person, always had been!!

Well there's no grumpiness in my house at the mo. No worrying about him thinking I didn't like his gifts, no missing out on day trips because he didn't fancy it.

Funnily enough, reading these makes me even more aware of my own anxiety and how his withdrawl triggered it. I just hope I've tackled it enough to not have affected my kids too much-they seem pretty laid back these days :)
Xx
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#89: June 04, 2015, 07:44:27 AM
The longer the MLC goes on the more I can see. Part of it is due to distance but part of it is being able to see the patterns. We tend to write off one or two incidents as a fluke or insignificant but the more it happens the more we see how significant it all is. I remember in the early days reading threads like this and not seeing the connection :o I suppose I was too close to see it.

I love rereading things - I always learn something new even though I have read it several times before. I can see my MLCer in the majority of that list :o It just confirms that he has a long, long way to go ???
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« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 07:45:46 AM by Searching4Answers »
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#90: June 04, 2015, 10:25:56 AM
Love this article thanks so much for posting   now i have a little bit more understanding What H is going through
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#91: June 16, 2015, 04:20:32 PM
Bump for latest newbies.
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#92: July 17, 2015, 12:09:57 PM
Thank you I have read this 6or 7 times today very insightful
Helpful and relevant to my h. Helping me to not feel so alone
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#93: July 18, 2015, 04:10:15 AM
Thankyou thats just what I needed to read today. I could tick nearly every box for my h. Xxx
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#94: July 18, 2015, 03:22:56 PM
For all of you out there who have just gotten to read this thread, I must share this:
My MLcer is an at home wallower (5 months since BD). The happier I am, the more confused he gets. So much so, that he passive aggressively does things to try to get under my skin. I am learning how to bypass almost anything (I never ask him to do anything, because he will say he will do it, but doesn't).

The other day, I was cleaning the bathroom and humming and grinning, and he had to leave the house. He thinks if he is unhappy, I MUST be unhappy, too. He cannot stand it that I am happy, because that means his unhappiness is HIS.

So all you newbies, go find something, anything that makes you TRULY happy. It's good for you, and throws his issues back on his own plate.

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#95: July 18, 2015, 03:26:55 PM
Hi offroad

have you seen the 180 rules
https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/

 its very much like you are doing, of course it works better for those with H at home
or in regular contact so keep it up  :)
 
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#96: September 12, 2015, 04:51:23 PM
I have a question. At some point in MLC does the depression go away permanently? Or does it not resolve until they are fully out of the tunnel and have faced their final fears? Or is this something they will still battle on and off their whole lives unrelated to MLC?

Just wondering because based on the things my H says I can tell he is deep in depression and probably has battled it most of his life. I am interested to know if it will go away after MLC, if that makes any sense..

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#97: September 12, 2015, 06:47:34 PM
Never,

The depression you see now is but a small taste of the depression stage.  When j went through that stage, it was unbelievably bad. 

Even then, when he is now long out of the tunnel, he still has to take medicine for depression.  He is still 're learning normal as opposed to depressive thinking.

Some counter the depression in replay by being manic~ high energy replayers. Others just wallow.   

Many people mistake normal MLC depression for the depression stage.  The real depression stage is intense and horrendous.   It is short lived.  For some Its so bad they have to choose to live or die.  I am sorry I don't know your story, but if BD was less than a year or 2 ago, he is likely not in the real depression stage so what you see is only a small taste of what is to come.

Best LP
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#98: September 12, 2015, 07:09:15 PM
Yep I remember one time the girls and I were laughing and happy in the kitchen and the ex actually ran out of the house. :o
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#99: September 13, 2015, 01:50:32 AM
Mine ran off down South on Christmas Day the first year. Try explaining that to three little kids.

Oh well, what doesn't kill you ....
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#100: September 13, 2015, 02:15:44 AM

Many people mistake normal MLC depression for the depression stage.  The real depression stage is intense and horrendous.   It is short lived.  For some Its so bad they have to choose to live or die.

LP, I have a question.  Is the 'real depression' of quite short, but intense, span then?  Compared to the long drawn out 'normal' depression?  And is it a sure thing that it WILL come? Or do some potter on in the lesser depression for the rest of their lives?  I don't see many examples on site of the BIG depression at all. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong threads.  Or maybe I'm assuming that the real depression is so intense it brings the MLC-er's life to a halt and they end up in hospital or prison or something.  Maybe some still soldier on, with the black dog hanging round their necks?  Thinking of, for example, Pixie's H . . .

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#101: September 13, 2015, 02:22:45 AM
And mine-who has been suicidal for two years. Sat in a bath with razor blades in Japan on S15's bday. Had to be flown back from work.  Had a couple of weeks off. Had to be sedated the next time he was away as he was so anxious. I can't imagine it getting worse.
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#102: September 13, 2015, 04:10:09 AM
I guess what I was trying to say is does successfully going through the MLC tunnel cure them of any depression they may have developed either at MLC or before?

Just wondering if we'd still have depression to deal with even after MLC is over ..
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#103: September 13, 2015, 04:12:59 AM
From what I've read on the Storied Mind website, they might still get depressed but learn to identify the signs and deal with it in a more appropriate way.

This is my hope. I don't want to spend my life with somebody who sees no joy in life
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#104: September 13, 2015, 11:39:09 AM
Quote
Just wondering because based on the things my H says I can tell he is deep in depression and probably has battled it most of his life. I am interested to know if it will go away after MLC, if that makes any sense..

Look up 'covert' & 'overt' depression.http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_overview_separation_covert-depression.html 
This is also discussed in Rosen's book.

Depression is on a spectrum.  It's all depression; depends how intense or buried.

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#105: September 13, 2015, 12:59:52 PM
After overt depression stage, I am saying about stages. Because depression is present during whole MLC and switching in covert - overt many times. But after MLCer go trough "depression stage", they are still depressed, but they slowly going up and up, leaving depression and become anxious. Also they regain a lot more clarity, more touch with reality.
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#106: February 06, 2016, 11:00:09 AM
attaching
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#107: February 06, 2016, 01:26:31 PM
Hmmm, I'm so sorry. I only just checked back in here - after so many months. I am very sorry to hear about the razor blades....   :( :(

I'm none the wiser at the end of this thread, I have to say.  But I know it doesn't really matter.  What will be, will be.  We'll deal with whatever we have to deal with as when and IF our Hs reach the liminality phase.

I totally realise that by that time it may be none of our business as our MLC-ers are out there in MLC land ON THEIR OWN, but it's worth noting that any suicide attempts would have a BIG impact on our children and so it's worth having a knowledge of depression in order to deal with this possible eventuality.
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Affair discovered; three moves out and three attempts at return during 2012, culminating in "I'm not coming back" statement. Then DIY separation agreement - Feb 14 - which I wouldn't sign. He moved in with OW in 10/14 and I heard little more. I instigated D in 2016.  He's still living in rental with OW and her D but the cracks are starting to appear.

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#108: February 07, 2016, 04:31:47 AM
That's one helluva list.  All l can say though is that no wonder so many round here keep saying my ex is depressed , there's only about 3 on that list she isn't doing.
l guess they'd keep seeing that in things l talk about her.
l'm pretty shocked tbh bc reading it all through that way that's been laid out , l can see very clearly now so much of it in my ex.

Going on her moods and many other things in that list still going on in even the last few wks though after over 3yrs , sadly l doubt she;ll be knocking any time soon by the look of that.
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#109: February 07, 2016, 11:21:52 PM
Attaching to read and read again! X
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#110: July 07, 2016, 06:04:42 PM
Thanks so much.  What a great read.  H checks almost every box. 
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#111: July 07, 2016, 09:25:00 PM
Yes, thank you.  My STBXH also exhibits most of these. 

It helps me feel like I'm not going crazy. 
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#112: July 07, 2016, 11:20:48 PM
I initially found this in 2011.  For the first few weeks after finding it, I read it every night before I went to bed.  I can't tell you how much it helped me.

When I see new posters, I feel compelled to bump it up.  I must say, I do smile when posters post to thank me and tell me how much it helped them.

Thank you for appreciating it, and I pray it helps you too!
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#113: July 08, 2016, 02:54:16 AM
I initially found this in 2011.  For the first few weeks after finding it, I read it every night before I went to bed.  I can't tell you how much it helped me.

Ditto!  A copy is still my little nightstand drawer...   Sad but true. 5 years on and very occasionally it still helps to remind myself of the realities of MLC/depression and that that is what I've been dealing with.  The article is one of the very best.
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BD June 2011
Affair discovered; three moves out and three attempts at return during 2012, culminating in "I'm not coming back" statement. Then DIY separation agreement - Feb 14 - which I wouldn't sign. He moved in with OW in 10/14 and I heard little more. I instigated D in 2016.  He's still living in rental with OW and her D but the cracks are starting to appear.

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#114: July 08, 2016, 03:02:51 AM
I read this often, too -- I think there is only one thing that H didn't tick, and actually, it's one I can't know about right now so he may well tick every one....

It reminds me that it's not me who's nuts
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#115: July 08, 2016, 06:34:04 AM
This is another good aide-memoire about craziness. Jed Diamond (psychologist, author of Irritable Male Syndrome and Looking for Love in All the Wrong Places and more books besides) told me this is how my H could suddenly view me as the enemy:



In time - LOTS of time - the image would shift back to the Lovely Lady.

I'm pretty sure H is still seeing the Hag at the moment.   What will be fun is when Bags (the OW) turns Hag.
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BD June 2011
Affair discovered; three moves out and three attempts at return during 2012, culminating in "I'm not coming back" statement. Then DIY separation agreement - Feb 14 - which I wouldn't sign. He moved in with OW in 10/14 and I heard little more. I instigated D in 2016.  He's still living in rental with OW and her D but the cracks are starting to appear.

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#116: July 08, 2016, 09:01:56 AM
I'm a little worried for myself that when I look at that image all I see is an old lady.   :P
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#117: July 08, 2016, 12:03:04 PM
Thank you for posting this! I think I will prob read this every night! My H is apparently "textbook".
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#118: July 08, 2016, 12:16:15 PM
Thanks for posting. This was one of the first articles I read when trying to figure out was was wrong with my H, and why he so wrongly saw me the way he did.

It's startling to see what MLC does to them, and it makes them turn on us the LBS ther one who cares and loves them the most.

I provided this to him and his brothers/friends and they just couldn't 'believe' my H could ever turn like this, and 'believed his angry very untrue spew about me instead.

Because of these things, I gave up my efforts to help my H, found this site to start helping myself.

Thanks again for posting, I really do 'hope' newer newbies read this to see exactly what is in their MLCers mind and do what I did, start to heal themselves.

@UK I FINALLY see the lovely lady! haha Thanks for posting.
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« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 12:53:21 PM by Elegance »

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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#119: November 14, 2016, 02:48:00 AM
Just read this. I may have in the past but don't remember. It fills in a lot of blanks in my situation. He's home now but still going through this. He's not in replay anymore. Let's hope he doesn't go back and just forward. Although I believe it's going to be a very long process for him. Ugh!
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Probably going through this for years
OW discovered Oct.23,2013,old GF from before we met at the age of 16!
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#120: November 14, 2016, 04:12:39 AM
I think I refer to it once a week. I actually think it is the best summary of MLC out there.

I read that someone on a Divorce Busting forum compiled the list. I looked at her profile and it said that her husband had divorced her but years later apologozed.
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Re: Signs of Depression during MLC
#121: November 14, 2016, 06:19:22 AM
I found this list somewhere back in August 2015. I also read it often. Just substitute female for male and it describes my W perfectly.
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