EDIT: Thread continued from:
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1593.0 -SS
I just remembered something that HB had written about the alienator relationship.
Will hunt it out and post on here .........
Even more answers to questions concerning the MLC affair...
Do you think the reason the OW/OM repeats the affair pattern is because they were broken to begin with, where we were already in a place of strength?
From what I know, researched, and have experienced, the OW/OM are just as broken if not worse broken than the MLC'er....it's a "just like" pattern, based on the "opposite theory". This is my own theory, based on all I've seen, which follows:
Just as the MLC'er has literally become the opposite of what they were before the crisis, their desires and needs take the directly opposite direction within themselves.
In a "normal" type situation, opposites attract, and likes repel; now, take just a moment and think of this within the area of the "opposite" realm of aspects, and what do you have? "Opposites REPEL, and Likes ATTRACT" which is the direct OPPOSITE of what should be in a "normal" situation.
They are attracted to each other, initially because they are JUST LIKE each other....again, not normal in itself, actually ABNORMAL.
Your typical OW/OM has generally suffered damage from childhood, having dealt with various kinds of abuses, and emotionally unavailable people in their lifetimes. MLC'er's have gone through this same thing or somewhere close within their own childhood. So, each person has "issues" that feed the other person's set of "issues".
Yet, in many cases, but not all, the MLC affair is subconsciously "set up" to help settle various issues within the MLC'er as it's not unusual, for the MLC'er to "recreate", "relive" or even "replay" a time in their lives that need "fixing" or "redoing". Furthermore, the affair is not always all about sex, contrary to what people think; it's really all about emotional "needs" met within each person by the other, even if in a very dysfunctional way. And these various dysfunctions came come from childhood, previous marriages, etc...again this is unique to each MLC'er.
Usually if sex is involved, that takes the EA to a PA, this generally happens for one of two reasons:
1. the affair partner, most of the time OW, because of insecurity, or because they perceive they are "losing"; as a last ditch attempt, uses sex to try and "keep" the MLC'er, or
2. true sexual addiction comes to light, as the additional evidence of pornography, sex films and magazines, etc. either shows at the same or another time.
It could be one or both that takes them into an even deeper downward spiral, taking a person into a place they NEVER meant to go, but did.
Their very weakness becomes their downfall...and it takes a great deal of strength to break various addictions that can be utilized during the crisis, not to mention the affair; which is also an addiction all its own.
It's also not uncommon for the affair partner to already be suffering from various personality disorders, such as Manic Depressive, Bi Polar, Multiple Personality Disorders, Emotional Instability, and it's also not uncommon for the affair partner to ALSO be going through a MLC.
Look at it this way, no emotionally healthy and truly self respecting person ever has an affair with married people or even bothers with people who are emotionally unavailable. The very fact the affair partner would even look twice at them to begin with, tells you a great deal about the OW/OM in relation to the MLC'er.
When it comes right down to it, the blame/responsibility for getting tangled up to begin with belongs on your MLC SPOUSE; as they always had a choice, and chose to make the WRONG one.
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Also, is it true that the MLCer will start to look at the affair partner the way the looked at the LBS prior to BD. I've heard that the afffair partner will also be demonized with the projections once they are the focus and not the LBS. Do you know if this is true?
Considering the affair itself is an exact "mirroring" of one person to the other, and "likes attract", which is the opposite of what is "normal" that is bound to happen in most breakdowns that occur within the area of the MLC affair. As the MLC'er is different they choose someone most "like" themselves in these areas.
As the affair breaks down, the MLC'er for the first time, sees themselves clearly "mirrored" within the affair partner, but, they still can't look at themselves directly, nor within. At that point, the affair partner can be viewed as the one who "dragged" the MLC'er into this.
Instead of taking equal shared responsibility, because the MLC'er still wishes to be seen as the "good" person, every bad thing that exists within the MLC'er is "projected" upon the affair partner, if only to make themselves feel better for a short time. It's also done in this way to make the MLC'er look good, the affair partner look "bad"...to try and "minimize" their own part in this.
The MLC'er who does this is still trying to escape responsibility for their part in the affair when they demonize and project the affair partner, with all of their weaknesses, shortcomings and failings.
Some will also go the route of demonizing the affair partner with projections because they really can't stand themselves, and the reality of what they've done hits them hard; this is actually the BEST option that can happen within the MLC'er, although, it still won't change what's done. While it certainly doesn't help to blame the affair partner with ALL of the responsibility for what has happened, or what is happening, this can happen to help the MLC'er gain the necessary strength to end the affair as the OW/OM in question shows their "true colors" and the LBS begins the show as the better option.
On the other hand, the MLC'er may not say anything at all, at least, not to the LBS, but you can be assured emotional detachment very similar to what happened with the LBS becomes in process as the affair is breaking down. The OW/OM doesn't help matters as they do all the wrong things to try and "keep" the MLC'er in question, which CAN speed up the breakdown.
Also bear in mind the MLC'er, again, must be emotionally ready to end the illicit relationship; as the affair is a symptom, not the root cause, and most of the time, there are various issues within the MLC'er that "fuel" the affair, and once these are faced, and settled within the MLC'er, the affair partner is no longer "needed" in that aspect.
When they try to take the 'easy' way out to keep the drama down, it NEVER comes out quite the way the MLC'er would want it to...there are serious consequences for affairs; and part of these consequences is the mess involved in getting rid of the affair partner, and this is NEVER easy, nor should it be.
The total drama that results is one aspect designed teach the MLC'er a very hard lesson so this mistake doesn't repeat itself again, ever. It's not enough to just exit the affair; there must be an incentive given, and lesson learned and driven home; that's not easily forgotten...at least not for some time.
Once the "fault" within is processed, and the issue/issues finished, learned from, settled, etc....this event will be among many forgotten after the crisis is done. My husband remembers nothing about any of this, and he shouldn't be remembering at all. In HIS case, as in most people's who have suffered a MLC, if he remembered beyond a small fact or two(and he doesn't even remember something like that, as his memory has been wiped clean in several aspects), something really would be wrong; as long as memory remains, something "leftover" still needs to be processed, settled, and eventually healed.
I say these things, because, as I recall, he was struggling with this one last issue(his parent's divorce at age 7), that sent him into another bout of crisis which contained ONLY the stage of Replay. and his first affair dealt with an aspect of that issue, as OW was his "recreation" of the relationship with his mother...she was just LIKE my husband in crisis, but ALSO just LIKE his mother. The affair was broken down before the recreated 'break' he needed to break was complete.
The EA in the secondary bout of crisis, involving this SAME issue; involved a woman very similar to his mother again...but there was very little left there for him to settle in that one aspect of his relationship in regards to his mother; finishing the 'break' that was supposed to have been made as a young man, but wasn't until then. During that time, the actual memory of his first affair STILL remained, as it was brought up to me during a fight we had.
He didn't get into high gear with the rest of his processing of this final issue UNTIL he broke his ankle
Rest assured, God doesn't "overlook" ANY of these things, and the consequences can be devastating in many ways for the MLC'er.
I hope this helps, as I've found myself explaining this again in a much better put together aspect than before.
More information on OW/OM Withdrawal.....
This is an interesting discussion, about the addiction to the fighting..... so, part of the OW withdrawal is not really them missing OW, but the drama high?
No, it's not really that, either, LG, and ladies.
While a person is within an affair, they were ADDICTED to the fact
1. they had NO responsibility whatsoever within the area of the affair;(OW/OM is not harping about bills and kids; the affair represents fun and games),
2. the way the affair partner made them feel,(by making them feel "special", "needed" such as the Knight in Tarnished Armor(courtesy RCR), and giving them lots of attention; without any demands, at least at first) and
3. the teenage hormonal highs they felt when with the affair partner.(Not always about sex, but often about being "accepted" or seeming to be accepted without judgement; there is always a "childlike" desire for this kind of acceptance; and somehow the affair partner meets that need)
4. The secrecy of the affair brought its own highs,(thinking they are getting away with something no one else will find out about, especially their spouse) and
5. when they were fighting, that had its own "highs" as well as being very "teenaged" type behaviors that show within both affair partners.(I've never read anything supposedly positive about fighting within an affair; only that if the affair is physical, it's supposed to make the sex better, more intense)
Once into OW/OM Withdrawal, they are
1. GRIEVING the end/loss of the affair and of the affair partner,
2 processing the SHAME and GUILT of the addiction they'd once felt, that also drove them to what they did, and
3. processing the meaning of the connection they'd forged with the affair partner, even though they know they were wrong, did wrong, and what they did was wrong.
4. They also have to process through the addiction itself to rid themselves of it...
That's why IF they reconnect with the affair partner, the affair will start up again, and OW/OM Withdrawal will end until they make the break once again; then OW/OM Withdrawal will start up from the beginning again, after ALL contact is broken.
What drives them back multiple times is the real sense of responsibility that they are at fault for having dragged this "fine" person into the mess they made..that's why they're often defensive and protective of the affair partner. They feel guilt and shame over knowing they must dump them; but for a time weakness keeps them down.....until they become emotionally ready to break it down completely, and the affair must also become very unsatisfactory to them; they will remain in this status quo.
Anytime you make a emotional connection with someone whether legal or illegal, that person lays claim to a place within your head and heart, when the connection/relationship ends, this is grieved through and processed.
Within the OW/OM Withdrawal, this same connection is also processed through, and broken completely; and the affair person is "purged" from their head, and heart.
They also DO miss the affair partner; more what they did for them, than the actual person themselves, but they have associated and attributed their addictions, highs etc., TO this person, and so they grieve out a whole lot of feelings, various emotions, including dealing with what was within them, whether it was a character fault, or other such issue, that drove them to do what they did, and these are all processed to a final end.
This has to occur and end BEFORE the person who's had the affair will start turning to the one they cheated on again.
For what it's worth, affair partners who are dumped; that didn't wish to be dumped, go through the SAME behaviors of clinging, begging, pleading, and grieving that the LBS goes through when the MLC'er drops the bomb on them expectedly. The difference here is the LBS attains the tools of the journey of a lifetime, whereas the OW/OM who gets dumped, doesn't learn these things, and within a given time, gets into another affair with someone else, repeating the same patterns again, and again, and again.
There are very real problems within men and women who have affairs; and these problems aren't much different than the MLC'ers who get involved with them.
Maybe this will help; this was courtesy of not only what I saw my husband go through, but also, a whole lot of research done some years ago on my part; and nothing has really changed in this aspect, believe it, or not.
Along the same lines concerning mostly OW aspects; I pulled this from my Sermon's Thread wrote back in 2002, it contains basically the SAME information that would still apply today; just as it did, then, as OWs haven't changed their motives; nor their behaviors.
This concerns placing blame and anger totally on OW, instead of directing it toward the SOURCE-the WAS
This sermon caused some controversy on the thread it was posted on-but it was necessary-I didn't want to offend anyone, and still don't-it was part of the lessons I learned-and anyone can still learn from this-don't get "stuck" in misdirected anger, learn to face the actual SOURCE that started this whole mess: the WAS
Now, one other thing, and this is based on many posts I have seen:
Why do you ladies place ALL the blame, and direct your anger at OW? I'm just curious about that-or maybe that is something you have to learn about--at first, I was angry at just the OW, but then the Lord made me realize the fault laid with MY HUSBAND-HE was the one who started this, not her.
She carried some of the blame once she found out he was married and wouldn't let him go-I don't believe she KNEW until he was ready to break it off-I believe he set her up to reject him and it backfired on him!
But you see, the total BLAME for the whole situation getting started laid on HIM-and so HE needed to be the target for my anger, NOT HER. Sure, she might have known or not known, he was married, and still tried to hang on, but you have got to see where IT ALL STARTED FROM-THE SOURCE WAS THE WAYWARD SPOUSE! That's who started this whole mess.
And the brunt of your anger needs to be directed toward HIM-see what I'm trying to tell you?
The WHOLE fault for starting this lays with the wayward spouse-and you must face that--just like I had to. Your husbands CHOSE this path, and when you direct ALL the blame on OW, and put NONE on him-you are defeating the purpose and living in denial-reality MUST be seen for what it is-they have committed the MOST selfish act there can be:
breaking their marriage vows and putting the marriage asunder in the losing of their committment. And you have EVERY right to be ANGRY at your MLC spouse!
Work through your feelings, reach forgiveness for your husband and OW-then let it go, as you can't change the past-you must now look to the future, that is one thing you CAN change.
Don't allow this to wield power over you-you've got enough on your plate as it is.
More on understanding OW and MLC'er-and what they think they need from each other
This is a partial quote of mine from another thread-it might help to answer your question:
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But when all was said and done, I DID overcome-and see OW in a different light than I did before-and without hate and resentment in my heart toward her--she is to be pitied rather than hated, because her problems are much bigger than ours will ever be.
We are learning what we need for this life, while OW stumbles along in the dark, never understanding why she cannot be happy with what she is doing with married men-using them for MONEY and MAINTENANCE.
You still think this is all about sex? Think again-sex, most of the time has NOTHING to do with it-it is only used as a "weapon" a last resort to try and keep the man--mostly what the OW is after is the MONEY she can get from a man-and if that is the ONLY thing she gets she can be happy with that-she only uses her sexuality to try and keep them, and most of the time she will get dumped like a rock, always being left behind.
I'm not saying they are ALL not interested in sex, but think about it--it is true that some will be happy with just getting MONEY from the married men-as they are concerned with THEMSELVES, and not the man-and the bad part is that when the OW is finished USING the man-she will dump him and walk away without a second look-as he has served his purpose with her-she has found something she considers "better".
The description above is the OW's idea of "True Luv"-they have NO idea what love really entails-and so they equate it with "using".
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I recall posting one time that "neurotics attract neurotics" and that is VERY true in MLC-OW has problems, the MLC'er has problems and for a time, they meet needs within each other.
OW is not looking for anything EXCEPT what SHE percieves SHE needs-and the MLC'er is doing the same thing with her.
Most of the time NEITHER one is aware they are "using" each other-until the affair begins to dissolve.
I understand, too, that is NOT always this cut and dried and black and white, but it IS an underlying reason OW takes up with men that look less than desirable-they are not so much concerned with that as they are with MONEY and MAINTENANCE.
One of the first things OW tries to find out is how much money they have and have no shame about begging them out of it, because she perceives that as "being kept", and ultimately that is what she is after.
She has NO interest in really pursuing a committed relationship, she is just as selfish as the MLC'er has become while deep within the tunnel.
When the affair dissolves, she is outraged because her "meal ticket" has just gone out the window, and she engages in "pursuing behaviors" mostly for that reason.
And, of course the she refuses to take her half of the blame-ALL the blame goes on the married man who up and left her--high and dry--she is ANGRY because he is no longer there to "keep her" in the lifestyle she is accustomed to.
I am convinced this is NOT all about sex-it is about selfishness, using and obsession. On both parts.
Yes, the affair meets some needs, but disregards others-and the "caring, love and intimacy" that helps a relationship get off the ground and grow is NOT there.
Theirs is mostly built on deception, and "what's in it for me?" routine, and both don't care who they hurt.
This was the answer S&A provided to my question-and I brought it here for additional help in "letting go" of the resentment and ill-will that is sometimes transferred to the OW alone:
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Why do you ladies place ALL the blame, and direct your anger at OW?
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I have done much thinking on this for two years as the Gnat has been so central to my story, though as you say...just a symptom.
The main reason is because it is easier to hate her than our H. We are emotionally attached to H and arent to the OW so it costs us less pain to focus our hate on her (for whom we do not care) than on our H who have done a heinous thing to us. Our H's betrayal is very personal as he was the one who promised to love, honor, cherish us and forsake all others. He knew our heart and did it anyway. AHHHHHH
This is hard to bear.
Secondly, though I realize this is sexist, I think the media at least has portrayed men as being highly controlled by their sex hormones and on some level they cant help it (lame I know...they can help it...) Somehow I think we tend to think the OW should know better and it is an offense to treat a female sister like this.
The Alienator - Many Questions cont'd...
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