[ziggee]

Limitless...I don't want to speak for everyone when I say- It's like we know that in our heads.
OW means nothing, the R won't last, they really aren't happy.
But really I am so guilty of allowing it to be in my head more than I want it to be...maybe it's bc I am home along (working from home- but I am by myself in the quiet) and have that much more time to think. When the kids get home from school, thinking about it- not so much!

So I KNOW I shouldn't do it- but do anyway sometimes...does that make sense. Now I just have to fix that part LOL
Your advice is spot on though and so now knowing and doing. OW- get out of my freakin head.

It doesn't help that I see her too often...she was sitting in H's van in my driveway this morning as I was taking the kids to school..what a way to start the day YUK!!

I would have to say... I dont think so much of the OM so much... but I do waste way too much time thinking about the situation.  I also know that it is destined to massive failure... which does gives me no comfort.  I think how could my w who is not a dumb person fall for that shallow crap.  Not just fall for it... be needy and desperate for it.

[Mamma Bear]

 So true Limitless. Possibley the hardest part for me. Last night when I was talking to my sister on the phone(her H came back after mlc)   I asked what she thought OW and my H  were doing over there at that very moment. She said " Two depressed crazy people fighting over where the rent is coming from bc Sabotage Sam can't find a job. "    The Ds tell me their apt is messy
    Now back to my journey..I guess it's the sudden rejection that confuses us.  Then I have days when I get it she's a symptom he was compelled and acting on pure emotion. then other days I picture them dancing off into the sunset.... with an ugly stranger, no job and a drug habit! Sure.

[OldPilot]

The process of the MLC affair is UGLY because it actually has little to do with the two people involved... they are like black holes of neediness sucking the life out of each other.... their needs NEVER get met....

EXACTLY!

Those of us that have no alienator are in exactly the same position, the MLC'ers needs NEVER get met.
It is not that much difference IMHO.

We are competing against a FANTASY that will never be fulfilled.

Until the MLC'er figures this out, they will be chasing their tail round and round.

[crazyforhim]

Exactly Mama- I guess that is what I was trying to say. I want to picture them fighting and arguing all the time.
But sometimes it's a picture of sitting on the couch and laughing and enjoying each others company....yuk (stop that thinking CFH)

and LG so TRUE now it just needs to sink into my shriveled head.

I have really good days and really bad days- think it is cause the kids are going there this weekend so
all the emotions of H and OW come out, having fun with my kids and all that!

That's why I love this place- just when you think you are down, you get picked right back up again
with support and hope and caring- FEELS GREAT!

It is hard to see your H like this- so weak and vulnerable. Quite sad and pitiful actually!

[Mamma Bear]

 CFH,     I asked my BIL who returned "What is my H doing over there?"     he said "Trying to get away from your mouth so he can think! He's doing the same crap he used to do when you were together locking himself in the bathroom and talking about doing things but never actually doing them."   He also said "Thinking about you and the Ds."   
   I guess that's why we put duct tape over our mouths.  LOL!!
   

[crazyforhim]

Mama- must make you feel better that you have a BIL who has been there.
I would be locking him in a room and interogating him....LOL! Well maybe not that bad...haha

[LettingGo]

I truly envy those of you who don't agonize over the affair. It is a betrayal of the worst kind. It causes PTSD. BD is bad enough, but it is the AFFAIR that causes the PTSD.

Trauma takes the brain a long time to process through.... our brains process just a little at a time because we cannot handle any more than that. Asking a betrayed AND abandoned spouse (some of us with previous abandonment issues) to just forget about the affair is unrealistic. It is also unrealistic to berate yourself for "spending too much time thinking about them together" well, DUH!! We're not DUMMIES!! Who WOULD want to think of it for one second!!

I am NOT A MAN. I cannot compartmentalize my life so easily. I am not in MLC. I cannot justify things so easily. I am not in denial. I wish I were, as I would probably get through my day easier, LOL!!

As a BETRAYED LBS, I have had to find new COPING mechanisms to deal with the unknown, which is the affair. It is TOTALLY NEW to me. Abandonment issues also come up, so there's another assignment to accomplish... learn my lessons there!

I have written what I know about the affair (from the horses mouth, so to speak) because with knowledge comes understanding and a form of peace. When Mamma and I got together, all I wanted to hear about was what her BIL was thinking and doing in his AFFAIR!! I didn't give a flying fig about the rest of his MLC craziness.... Hearing even one new word, even if it's the SAME word from Mamma's BIL's mouth HELPS ME to calm down and FOCUS ON MYSELF!!!

I can't tell you how frikkin' triggered I am getting since I am the one providing all documentation to our mortgage lender and for a grant program we are applying for for our new home.... I do NOT look beyond what is is unavoidable.. making copy after copy of bank statements.... not being able to get my husband on the phone for further info because he's in Canada, but possibly at OW's right now, on his way home from Canada..... yep. It's a possibility. It will be a possibility for a long time.

What takes up all MY headspace is not OW or the affair.... it is scrambling around every day to find a COPING MECHANISM that will work for whatever lands at my doorstep THAT day.....

I'm feeling very fragile right now, as I don't have any physical support from my husband.... he is still juggling whatever is going on in his messed up world.... the mess of the affair, whether he is in withdrawal, or slipping...... I can't control it, and it causes massive doubt and FEAR.... THAT is what I am trying to cope with.... REMEMBERING..... I will win the war, if not every battle. I can see the outcome.... but it's not a straight path.

So don't beat yourself up over trying to figure out the dynamics of the affair.... being dumped for another person really does a number on your self esteem, no matter how confident you were before... it makes you feel very vulnerable and unsure... it takes time to get your MOJO back! Follow the advice given, and don't worry if you are too attached to OW temporarily..... I can tell you DETACHING FROM HER is more important to me than detaching from my man.... I am detached, but consciously staying detached from her is a constant vigil.

[limitless]

Hi Synicca,

I wanted to comment on your post.....

As much of that is ALL so very true....Its one of the hardest things to get past...Trying to understand the dynamics in their R is one of my dowfalls...BUT, I learned a long time ago that the OW means nothing...so I do NOT compare myself to HER...

The biggest problem in being the LBS is comparing yourself to the Alienator....because most of us at BD have issues with self esteem.
Its natural emotions when you have been left for another woman...I did it. ALOT!

I think it is very good that you do not compare yourself to the alienator. 
At BD - the LBS' self esteem is crushed!  At least, that is how I felt about it.  I felt very unloved and unloveable. 
It is an extreme blow to our self esteem to be abandoned, which is one of the most important things for us to remember that we MUST work on.  Our own self esteem. 
Over time, we will realize that we are not unloveable at all.  That our spouses truly do not love themselves and are, thus, incapable of loving anyone else.  So....we must not fall into the trap of low self esteem.  It is part of our self focus and our work on ourselves to repair our self esteem and remind ourselves of our value and worth.

The thing is...we all want to believe that the OW is a crazy batsh*t woman that is needy and pushy and mean and cruel.
My H's OW is all of that and more...but I think being a "preditor" because I think ALOT of OW's are. They KNOW exactly how
to ACT around the public...and they will come across as sweet and kind...but really, like LG says.,.,THEY are the DOORMATS.

What if the OW is not crazy at all?  What if she isn't needy, mean, or cruel?  I would guess that there are some OW out there who are involved with married MLCers - who have no clue.  That may make the OW ignorant....but not necessarily needy, pushy, and cruel.  Yes.  There are predators out there.  I would think that the MLCer who is involved with a predator will, when he wakes up, realize that he must get away from the OW. 
I don't believe that all are doormats. 
But, I must believe that, eventually (there is that eventual word again  ) - even the uninformed, non-redatory OW will begin to question the relationship - as, I am pretty sure, the MLCer has been considerably less than open and honest.
The fact is - regardless of who, what, or how the alienator is - the "person" with whom she is involved (MLCer) is in a CRISIS - and is, in no way, even close to being the true person he is or eventually will be. 
Thus, a relationship built on lies.....built on need......and pretty much doomed.

They ( in my case) know they are tangled up with a married man with a child/dhildren, yet, because they FEEL entightled
to EVERYTHING they get out of life...stomping on children to get there is fine by them! They SEEK out weak and unstable men
to "USE" .  My H's OW..( I just learned this) has/had a "sugar daddy" another MARRIED man paying HER bills and buying HER things. SHE told my H that this man was a "father figure" that HE only HELPED her out because HE CARED about HER well being.

These things may be true.....so, in that case, good for you.  She will show her true colors sooner than most - or perhaps she already has.  What then?  As Letting Go informed me (a while back when we had the opportunity to meet) - if the OW relationship ends and the MLCer is still in crisis - he will just look for another.  (She was right, by the way).  MLCers have a difficult time being alone.  Too much time to think.....something that they really do not want to do.  What if the next OW is better?  By that, I mean, what if she isn't as unstable?  Would you feel differently then? 
Too much "watching" of the OW and the MLCer keeps the LBS from putting her focus where it belongs.  Stop watching......

LEARNING how to BE YOURSELF and not compare her to YOU is important...but HARD as hell when you allready feel like a FOOL
for not "seeing it coming" at BD.

Synicca, I hear you on this one.  You are soooo right.  We need to be true to ourselves...Find out who WE are.  It is difficult...but it is something we MUST do. 
And, don't feel like a fool for not "seeing it coming" - that is why they call it "Bomb Drop".  We are clueless at the time....maybe because we are in denial....many times because the MLCer has been so secretive and has lied so well - we do not see this coming.  We could not have kept it from coming.  Once, in the tunnel, it is inevitable.  Not our fault.  Not our doing.  So, you reallly need to work on letting that go.  Don't feel like a fool.   You are not a fool.

It takes time....but we all need to get to a point where "we just know" that the R is DOOMED to start...It is doomed because you CANNOT start ANY R ( normally) based on lies...The VERY foundation is weak.

That is correct.  The foundation is very weak.  So....as RCR states - the Titanic didn't need any help in going down.  Leave the "relationship" to self - destruct on its own.  Stay far clear - in the life boat.  And, don't watch.  It may take a while to sink...and it may bounce up more than a few times before the inevitable end.

By sitting and watching.....you are giving up YOUR time to work on yourself.  Fix those self esteem issues.  Become the person that you want to be...for yourself. 

Limitless

[crazyforhim]

Limitless and Synicca,
Wish i was as good with words as you both.

The thing that makes me feel so much better is knowing that I am going through the same emotions as most of you.
With the OW I wish I knew what was going on inside their house...conversations they have had, and it's not to be obsessive or jealous- it is so that I can put that R in the back of my mind knowing 100% for sure it is BAD. In my mind I have no real evidence... but the knowledge to me IS POWER so it does help a tremendous deal.

But if I did know someone who went through MLC you bet your bottom dollar that I would be finding out everything I could about the R and OW just like LG said...it gives me peace and helps me focus more on myself and not them.
WOW it really does give us power!!!

knowledge=power...lets never forget that!

[limitless]

Limitless and Synicca,
Wish i was as good with words as you both.

The thing that makes me feel so much better is knowing that I am going through the same emotions as most of you.
With the OW I wish I knew what was going on inside their house...conversations they have had, and it's not to be obsessive or jealous- it is so that I can put that R in the back of my mind knowing 100% for sure it is BAD. In my mind I have no real evidence... but the knowledge to me IS POWER so it does help a tremendous deal.

Crazyforhim,

Thanks for the kind words.

Regarding your "wish" to know what is going on inside their house - be very careful what you wish for.
I'm going to make a guess and say that, as all MLCers cycle - what is going on (or not going on) in that house is cycling, too. 

Do you really want to ride that rollercoaster?  I really don't think that you do.

The MLCer will attempt many avenues to run and avoid.  During replay - they just aren't ready to face themselves.  There is much indecision (at first), then maybe they are completely sure that what they are doing is RIGHT, then they don't understand why they still aren't "happy".  It would truly drive one batty to watch!  I truly believe this.

Some of the LBS here who have lots of interaction with their MLCers are seeing this right now.  It takes a very strong, confident LBS to deal with this.  I do not put myself into that category.  While I wonder what is going on in my H's mind right now.....it is most likely better than I am not privvy to it. 

Real evidence really wouldn't help - as the MLCers change their minds so much - it really doesn't matter.

Re-read the articles on Infidelity.  Re-read the articles on MLC takes Time.  Re-read the stages.
Trust the process.  That is all we can do.

The rest is out of our hands and control.

You will be okay.   These things take lots of time.  I'm not there, yet....but I am determined to get there.

Hugs,

Limitless