[Rollercoasterider]

For me I am not so much concerned with whether MLC is more prevalent than society believes it to be; I am more concerned with the two groups--MLC is real or MLC is prevalent versus MLC is not real or barely real--not prevalent.

I see articles that claim MLC is a myth (hate that term since myth is not synonymous with false). But the articles usually go on to state it is a myth because it is not either prevalent/common/rampant or because it is not inevitable/guaranteed.

I spoke to someone on another marriage forum who came to the MLC discussion and said she was not having marital problems but was at the forum and in the MLC discussion because these things were what happen to people at a certain point and she wanted to be prepared.    I don't know if she meant it, but from her words, she actually believed it was a guarantee that her husband would have a midlife crisis--he would cheat and leave her.

The infidelity rate is somewhere around 69%--there are a lot of various stats and who knows which are accurate. But if it is true that 69% of people cheat--or is it that there is infidelity in 69% of marriages and maybe in some cases both cheat... well if it's of people, there is 31% who do not cheat and many of those 69% are likely married to each other which means it is probably more than 31% of marriages that have no infidelity.

I don't want to cry epidemic regarding MLC because to me it doesn't matter. I think 8% is a lot, but the articles saying it's a myth say that it is only 8% or only 25%...often of people surveyed said they had an MLC.
And consider if 8% of people have an MLC--that is of ALL people--then won't it seem more concentrated to those of us in the MLC age range? Or will t seem less concentrated? Or will it seem like anything?
I guess the question is, how do they determine 8%. Ask people who are 80 if they had one? There is a difference between 8% of people have had or are presently having an MLC versus 8% will have an MLC. If 8% will have one, that means 8% of people in the age range are either now having one, just through or will have one, but there are people outside of the age range who had their MLC which brings the total population above 8%--or does it. Statistics turn my brain to mush and now I've lost myself!

Well, we all know that MLCers deny MLC--and those who come through often deny or still fail to recognize it. So self-reporting is perhaps the least reliable method. So how should data be collected--is it a realistic thing to collect due to the difficulties?

Self-reporting--NO
Survey Therapists: NO, not even those who believe in MLC...MLCers avoid therapy, but evenso therapists have an isolated population, people who come to them with and for personal problems...so even though MLCers avoid therapy, there still may be more in therapy comapred to the general therapy population.
Survey friends and family: Well yeah, but how do you do that? Some parents will be in denial. Surveying the new friends...No they have nothing for comparison.

Survey the spouse...this is the best, but consider the difficulties.
Let's say we are looking at MLC in men--women would be another survey. The research team wants a popultation of 1000 men between 38 and 53. I know,some are older and some are even younger, but the research needs to have limits.
So who ae we surveying, married men, all men in the range, only men who have been married--though they may not be married? Maybe men who either are married or who have recently been married...sincve we are trying to determine the present prevalence of MLC and not if the 53 year old had one at 38.

So the first challenge is simply choosing the population.
Let's say we select Married men and those who separated or divorced within the last 7 years.
Now who do we interview within the circles of those men?
The men themselves--it would be unfair to make a determiniation/diagnosis without interviewing them. Their wives, what about alienators...
The interview techniques would need to differ for each member of the circle--ask the alienator or new girlfriend questions designed to tease out whether she used Emotional Blackmail and was a mate predator, but do it without assuming since she may be an innocent new girlfirend--the ex-wife may have even been the MLCer...
How do you find the ex-wives--or those who are almost exes? Will they agree to be interviewed, will the MLCer...?

Another method could be to interview the circles around couples who divorced or have filed for divorce/separation and compare them to a control of those who have been steadily married. The group between steady married and divorced/separated would be selected according to divorce statistics for that age range and include almost divorces stats--maybe 10% who file stop the process and reconcile--so if 10% of people between 38 and 53 divorce, 110 of the total 1000 (110 to account for the % who reconcile) would be from the divorced/separated group.


I think in many ways newbie LBSs are the worst to ask--they survey questions would isolate them to only discussing their spouse and noth others they think could be MLC. We see MLC in every situation. If someone tells me their spouse has a girlfriend, you bet my mind races to MLC and I wonder. I do the same thing when I simply here a couple is divorcing. An emotionally-bonded affair will look like MLC, it may even bring a midlife transition to a crisis level--thus creating the MLC. But just because an affair is emotionally-bonded and the married betrayer is within the MLC age range does not mean it is MLC. It's still a good question to ask, but it is not a certainty.

Years ago Lingy and I were chatting on the phone--it was the early days of MLC for us and we chatted all the time--okay, so we kept it up in the late days and until her death. But this was across the holidays--between Christmas and New Year's. She got another call, it was her son who is a couple of years older than I am. He was on his 2nd marriage--his first failed after the death of their newborn child--death at birth due to the Doctor's misconduct. He'd since been married about 5 years or so--and he married his current wife son after his divorce, though they were not together during his first marriage. Well, he was calling to tell Lingy he was leaving his wife and that he had a girlfriend.

Lingy called me right back and went straight to MLC. Later she visited our counselor--the psychic I've talked about. Well, the psychic confirmed that it was MLC; she's a great friend and all, but I don't buy into everything she says, I use my own judgment too. Lingy was in a state of shock. Her MLCer was at the older end of the range--49 at Bomb and now mid 50s and now her son (his stepson, she was older than her MLCer) was near the younger end of the range at about 38.

He returned to his wife--within a few weeks I believe. But the relationship was very rocky. Why? She had been an addict when they met and he helped her get clean and get her kids back...so guess what...she was on drugs again. Sweetheart worked with her and said she took months off of work--many many months over a year or 2. She would be back for a few days or weeks and then gone again--medical leave for rehab.

MLC my a$$! He stuck with her throughout those few years. I don't know how things are now--she no longer works with Sweetheart and since contacting Lingy is not really an option I don't get any news. But he became determined to make it work--kind of like a Stander. But initially he got labeled as the betraying partner, the bad guy, the one with the problem. Well, yeah he had coped with a difficult home situation by having an affair, but his affair was not due to MLC and when he stopped it, he took measures to make sure it was definitely over.

Looking back with all the facts in place, a person would dismiss MLC, but in the initial moments MLC seemed a good guess, it was an affair, he was leaving and he was just at the tip of the age range.

What makes something prevalent anyway?
Is 8% rare and 51% prevalent?
I'd like it if the cancer odds were 8%, but they are in the high 20s. I'd love it if the divorce rate were 8%; relative to now that would be rejoicingly low.
When it comes to MLC it is often discussed regarding inevitability rather than prevalence.  Well it is absolutely not an inevitability that every person or every man who lives long enough will have an MLC--it is inevitable that he will have an MLT--midlife transition; it's also inevitable that every person who lives to 20 will go through their teen years.

If MLC were 1 in a million I think we'd be blowing things out of proportion--except that we wouldn't be here to do that. Some people simply have a problem with the term because it isolatse the crisis to a specific age range and similar crises may be experienced at other age ranges and they may be completely separate from the person's age. I understand--the marriageadvocates forum is one of these--but we are using a term that is already accepted. If I were to make up some term that was more accurate, you would not have found this site because you went in search of midlife crisis information when you plugged it into Google.

I think there are times when the divorce rate goes up--such as the present economic downturn. Such a downturn is also something that can trigger an MLC. It doesn't mean there is an overall trend (or not) of increasing cases, it just means that in this economic climate there may be an increase and it may decrease when the econcomy turns around. But MLC triggers take a few years to get to Replay and Bomb Drop, so the increase in new MLC cases may remain high for a few years after the economy turns better. The rate of MLC is conditional with the socio-political climate. I wonder if there was a greater surge of MLC among New Yorkers from 2002 to 2006 than in other areas? And in New Orleans after Katrina?

And then some will use those traumas to change positively...

I understand the turn your midlife crisis into...a journey, positive experience... blah blah blah crap. I like the concept, but I find it annyoing. It is using the term crisis to apply to most people within the age range to give the idea that it is prevalent. Well MLT is certainly prevalent! But by saying MLC can be turned into... dismisses and discounts the crisis that it is. It can even enables MLCers in their destructive lifestyles.

Okay, I've rambled on long enough...

[Anjae]

Maybe it is not more prevalent than it used to be, we are just more aware of it. We are older, we know the symptons, we can recognise the behaviours.

When you are a kid, a teenager, even a younger adult, one is not looking around, we're concentrated on ourselves.

Well, no need to do interviews, just field work, like when your're observing geological factors or animals. Of course you would still need a group or situation to study. Let's say all men between 30 and 65 you come across, and see what behaviour they have. And, fo course, you will need the study to go on for years.

But, given that MLC, like RCR said, MLC is conditional with the socio-political climate, current one may trigger it up.

[ziggee]

Maybe its like when I bought a Golf..... seemed everyone on the road was driving a golf... or when my son purchased an Mazda 3 everyone was driving a Mazda 3... all Golfs and Mazda 3s on the road these days

[growing every day]

I for one believe that it is far more prevalent than currently believed. I think the internet, FB, cell phones, all the modern technology has made it easier to see. I was 16 and I know that was Dad was going through a crisis. He started to go out with friends, wasn't around as much and one day I found him crying to my mom that " all he was, was a paycheck to us" That was 31 years ago. And I think it was MLC. He was 41 at the time.

I also think that sites like this have made it easier to understand that this does exist and that we, the spouse that has been cheated on, are not alone. I mean come on.. how many people are on this site. If this is not certification that there is a crisis out there I don't know what is.

I think society's view on the throw away family, especially in the modern day and age of 'no fault" divorces that allow one person to desert their family and obligations has just added to this crisis. Makes it easier on the courts systems, horrible for families.

All I know is that one year ago, while not perfect I had a marriage. Today I have myself and a husband that has abandoned every thing I thought he believed in. And for what? Because society says it's ok. I for one wish that it was something that the psychological community would get behind, study, understand.  My therapist buys in to it, but I think it's because I say so. She thinks my H is a total idiot, who may be suffering from depression, and has lost all sense of what is normal in a family. Sounds like MLC to me. So I guess she really does agree with me.

IF this isn't real, then what the he!! has all this pain and agony that I have been put through about? If it is just a myth or fairy tale, or a dream... I'm waiting to Patrick Duffy to come to me and say wake up.. it's all over now.

[angelgirl]

I have mentioned this before, but my H, having experienced this (still is?) says this is a very true phenomenon. After all, our government has now named "withdrawal from caffeine" an actual condition. Maybe they would admit MLC "exists" if there was treatment for it that can be billed through insurance...
H was either a cheating dog that went nuts when he actually had to follow through on it, or it was MLC. He had gone to two therapists and he asked them flat out "what's wrong with me? I don't want to do this. This isn't me. But I do want to do this. I won't/can't go back to W. Is this MLC??" Both therapists denied MLC. They said his problem was "failure to communicate" to me, his W, what made him angry at me (you know the list: I gained weight, didn't pay enough attention, paid more attention to the kids, gave up my career for the kids...yada yada yada).
My own therapist denied it also. my H must have always been this way, he told me, and I simply ignored it.
H won't see therapists now. He says MLC exists and he feels it and therapists are useless (according to him). He can feel it in his hormones and in his thinking. Even though he is healing at home, he acknowledges his issues with his dad (want to please Dad vs. doesn't want to be like him)  and conflicting feelings of being needed (the kids need me too much vs. they don't need me anymore, they have their lives) and age and dying (he just got liposuction on his love-handles). His surgeon even said to me (and he didn't know our MLC storm story at all) "oh, this is typical. He's in that stage of life. I see it all the time. what do they call it? MLC right? Keeps me in business." Ha ha.
However, H, a physician, sees the depression/acceptance/struggle and self-centered teenage way of thinking he is in. Fortunately, seeking an OW is not an option anymore, but I wouldn't put it past him to buy something huge and ridiculously unnecessary.
H has medication handy and is extremely focused on his behavior and ability to handle the direction of his life. I think he meets the personality profile of someone likely to have MLC and even tho the storm was relatively quick, it was/is MLC.  He swears it.
Sometimes I wonder if he uses it as an excuse, but he is profoundly remorseful. He says that he thought everyone could tell in the initial stages of his numbness that he was "all wrong" but he obviously kept that to himself. Again, as i've said before, he was reality-challenged.
I choose to follow the theory that it was/is MLC. Like autism, we are aware of it, it is referred to now, and discussed and studied and, in our modern world, to give in to MLC (do whatever it takes to be happy -- even if you rolling over innocent people to do it) is acceptable.
Just my opinion.
angelgirl
home rebuilding

[Tsunami]

H said I should put my cats to sleep on BD when I asked "what about the cats?".

Whoa SGG...my H made the same comment to me, and it flipped me out.  Couldn't believe what I was hearing since we'd just spent a fortune flying them back to the states from the Pacific Islands.

If I hadn't been in shock at the time, I probably would have asked him if he'd been smoking crack or what?

That's a smart a$$ comment the kids say to me when they think I'm asking them a dumb question.

[Mamma Bear]

Angelgirl and Tsunami, I think about what you said angel all the time. I can't believe this condition exists and is so obvious. I also am glad my sister was able to be there and remind me "he's in the tunnel leave him be"      What your H is saying to you is what I think my H is experiening right now. This fuzzy foggy stumbling around in a a life that's happening to him and he's just along for the ride. They can't see the consequences obviously. Delusional. That's part of the reason I can Stand. I know something is wrong and it appears temporary and fake and fuzzy

[angelgirl]

MB, the main thing that kept me Standing, was the belief that this was MLC and that there would be an exit out of the tunnel. The doubt that he may be changed forever, in way that is not consistent with my belief system, lurked over head of course, but the hope that MLC was survivable is all that kept me going. God kept some details from me until now, I think, so that I could muster the courage to keep going.
I repeat my story only because, as quick as it seemed, my H went from being done with us, with a distinct finality, to being truly dedicated to us and at peace. he just said yesterday that usually around this time his seasonal depression would have kicked in full force, but he doesn't feel it at all. The "dying" trees and retreating sunlight are not the enemies. He does say tho, that he's prepared the minute he feels those "negative waves".
He is an example of someone going through this and saying that "Standing with time limits and boundaries" was what got him to the other side. So please keep the faith...
angelgirl
rebuilding

[ziggee]

MB, the main thing that kept me Standing, was the belief that this was MLC and that there would be an exit out of the tunnel.

From day to day... really that is what I am placing my faith in.  On dark days I think that maybe I am just deluding myself and that maybe this is the real her.  She told me that the last 22 years she was not her self and she was just trying to please everyone and now it is her time.

[Mamma Bear]

Angelgirl,  I can remember 2 months before BD this past Feb he was in bed rubbing my face and kissing my eyebrows telling me how beautiful I was.   Then out the door down the street. He literally RAN away to bowser ows place. I knew right away he was out of his normal self. Nothing made sense until this site and my sister's story of her H and his return.  I can go day to day doing ALL the work for our kids and house etc...but Man O' Man the MLCer has NO IDEA of what we're going through.  I knew that when he said last week " Ya know, we never even talked about any of this."      That's thanks to the good ole No R talk rule I follow.   LOL   LOL