[Gallagher]

Another thought.

My Uncle is a Psychiatrist (I know...Nurse Aunt and Pscyh Uncle... my support is good).  We have been talking about my husbands father.  He also had a MLC.  Both H and FIL were the same age 48-49.  FIL was gone for 2.4 years.  OW was never confirmed but he did move out.  He eventually came back and they just celebrated their 50 year anniversary in July.  No counseling, no help...just came back.  Told my MIL that he would go hunting and fishing whenever he wanted, but he was back.  BTW, I adore my FIL.  Funny, goofy,smart--- awesome Grandpa!

My FIL has Adult ADHD. I have a son 11 that has been diagnosed with ADD.  All three of my sister-in-laws have at least one child with ADHD.  Youngest SIL has D23 with Bipolar and severe anxiety.    My sister in law has struggled with depression.  H has been taking paxil since we've know each other (10mg for anxiety). 

Is there a connection here?  My Uncle is intrigued but has no experience with MLC.  Although, he is learning from me...whether he wants to or not! 

[Anjae]

Stayed, Think that there is a difference between validate feeling and actions. Like you I never stop tolding my husband whatever I had to say. I had just simply (before this forum even come to be) detached and went NC. But that was for me. I had had enough of all the stuff that we went through during OW1.

And I did all the "wrong" things during OW1. Well, she lasted less than OW2, he keep coming back. Yep, I know, I could had done the same during OW2. But there were the court cases and I was done with arguments and all that stuff, so I cut the cord.

But I always told him that he was responsable for what he did and what I thought of what he did. What changed with time, and understanding MLC, was that I started saying in a not so furious way.

Now I say nothing. There is nothing to say.

SD is right, the concept of childwood and the years people live changed with the centuries. Yes, many people would die very young and many women would die at childbirth. And I must also add that, when separated or widowed people would pretty much couple again with someone else. They would not be studying MLC. Life was too short for that.

Even in many european countries live until the middle of the 20th century, sometimes until the 70's was still pretty hard for most people. When I was born the difference between city and country life and the diverse social classes was huge. Now all is much more levelled.

But I think the cult of youth plays a part in MLC. If nothing else because of the pressure people suffer to stay "young", look "young". There is nothing wrong with being keeping fit and a happy healthy mind and body. That is not the same as keeping being a teenager for ever.

Well, in a way, life is still too short for that...But...but many things are different now.

[kikki]

Is there a connection here?  My Uncle is intrigued but has no experience with MLC.  Although, he is learning from me...whether he wants to or not!

Gallagher - this has been debated on the forum before somewhere.  Not sure on what thread?
A lot of us seem to have come to the conclusion that if there was a tendency towards these sorts of things pre-crisis - it could perhaps tip them over the edge and into crisis.  Because their coping mechanisms are not necessarily all functioning as they should.

[HeartsBlessing]

Hi Stayed,

You know I love you dearly, always have; but I wanted to answer this comment you made:

Who says this stuff?  Good old Jim Conway, HB, RCR, last two who freely admit neither of them are psychologists or have much more then 1 semester of psychology at university?  The stuff I am reading doesn't DISMISS mid life crisis as nothing to do with AGE.  Why would it materialize with AGE especially around the 40-50 point, if age had nothing to do with it?

Does it make people feel better to be able to somehow make this about our spouses childhood?  Blame on the terrible parenting we all go.  What?  I just don't get it?

I have said to various posters numerous times in the earlier days; and sometimes, even now, that the crisis can strike between the ages of 35 and 55, sometimes sooner, sometimes later; and I HAVE more than once asked for the spouse's age to help me determine if it's a true MLC, or an emotional crisis; not to mention, I have also asked for the HISTORY of the marriage, the LBS and the MLC spouse; and any other relevant information I deem necessary so I can help the poster determine what's going on.

I have NOT seen EVERY case as MLC; and I ask for lots of DETAIL; no one can determine a whole lot from very little, and as intuitive; and insightful as I come across as being to others, NO ONE can see EVERY LITTLE thing about another.   I only know what the LORD shows me outside of what I've been given to read...and He doesn't always give me more; sometimes that's not necessary to see.


I have never thought it made people feel "better" to know the majority of issues came from traumatic events that happened within a spouse's childhood or even their young adulthood....or even from issues that were never faced that came from a previous marriage.

If anything, information like that can increase the guilt of the LBS for not seeing this earlier when it wouldn't have stopped the crisis, regardless.  Yet, once the MLC'er has dropped the bomb, making sure the LBS knows these type things can forestall a hard shock when the LBS is walking their journey in a proper way; and these things WILL be seen anyway; regardless of whether I prepare them or not.  With that said,  I'm a believer in making sure people know all they need to know so they are well prepared for this walk.

I'd ALREADY had this kind of information 'fed back' to me more than just a few times at an earlier time and place, so I KNOW I'm on the right track in this aspect.

Not ALL issues come from bad parenting; some traumatic events that become later issues also can come from other sources during childhood.  You never know what may cause an issue to develop within a child; as you don't know everything a child will see and experience. 

I know this one to be a FACT from firsthand knowledge; and will say nothing further on that particular subject from my personal experience; except there were several issues within myself that were not caused directly by my parents; but my parents could have protected me better than they did.  There was another issue created within me in young adulthood, and this had to do with my son; I did what was right to protect him; but there was an aspect of hurt I never got past UNTIL I was navigating through my Transition. 

However, this partial revealing does NOT color my own perceptions. 

I've observed SO many situations over the years; and have drawn most of my certainty from these observations, and from asking a great many questions so I could understand this better for myself.

When the crisis arrives, the majority of MLC'ers are literally "covered" in issues that cry out to be heard, and this is IF they didn't face themselves at any time BEFORE the crisis.

Some of their issues evidence within as "errors" that need to be corrected; therefore this is where the "reliving" of their prior relationships(if these existed) takes place.  For others, you'll often see them "reliving" their EARLIER years of marriage.  For some, you can see them "reliving" a time that concerned correcting an error made with either mother or father; the earlier inability to make the proper break a young adult is supposed to make; but some remain emotionally attached to their parent or parent until this issue is properly resolved within the MLC'er.

That is why you see some MLC'er's "reliving" a prior marriage that occurred before your current one; and I'm aware a few of you have already seen THIS aspect at work within some of the various MLC affairs.
That's ANOTHER aspect of the crisis; one that can LENGTHEN the crisis even more, as a MLC'er actually DOES "relive" their lives in various ways to correct certain "errors" made within their past; and certain things they say will actually tell you where they are within their journey in the past.

I have NOT written this article yet; but I have made reference to knowing this aspect happens during MLC.

Then again, as every person is different, every crisis is different...and each person's life leading up to the MLC is also different.  Some components that show up in one; won't show up in another; yet issues show up in ALL people at this time.

You see the "groundwork" for various issues has its roots somewhere IN EVERYONE's childhood; comprised of traumatic events too painful to deal with; and so these are set aside.

These compound in time, as they go forward within their lives, making further mistakes/errors that ADD to their issues; making mountains out of molehills.

Not to mention materialism, lack of the ability to emotionally connect, not to mention all of the other psychological defense mechanisms learned along the way; that must be UNLEARNED during their time in crisis.

The ones who already have their investments in people, rather than material things, ones who are emotionally "open"; are the ones that have the easiest time navigating through, and keep the Transition just what it is...a TRANSITION, that NEVER becomes a crisis.

It's a scary thing for people who were never taught to be open with their feelings; having been trained by trauma, not to mention their issues within to remain closed.

This aspect is ALSO a major contributor to the crisis.  When my husband was going through; not only was it shown to me he was suffering a major midlife crisis complicated by sexual addiction, it was ALSO shown to me that he was of the group whose investments were MATERIAL, rather than emotional.   I was in the EMOTIONAL group of people whose investments were in PEOPLE rather than MATERIAL things.

I COULD go on and on and on; there are SO many aspects I've spoken on, and written about over time; as I was learning about this stuff.

People's questions trigger a great many things in me; and your comment was one of those triggers, Stayed.    The board was started in the beginning to help people; no one gets paid to sit here and answer questions; least of all, me.   I welcome the challenges put forth, but in many aspects we will have to agree to disagree on various things.

I'm actually glad you're researching; and you haven't said one thing that I don't already know about; as I researched heavily in past years; and I still research what I don't understand or don't know.

My question to you is this; and it really doesn't matter to me if you answer it or not.

Does it really bother you that RCR has some college and I don't have any at all?   Is this some way of pointing out that we don't know what we're talking about?   You have every right to your opinion, but this looks like you are trying to cut us down to some kind of small size....and in the longer run; what you or anyone else says is not going to matter that much in 10 years.

I saw attitudes just like yours back years ago when I was 34 or 35; having written the stages, the lessons, and was advising people on how to deal with the crisis. In many aspects, I didn't write much differently than I do now; advocating the SAME journey; plus I advised people on HOW to deal with their MLC spouses, much like I STILL do now.

The majority was acting the SAME way you often advise; they were tossing their spouse out in the street because "they didn't deserve to be treated this way".....and all but just a few of the spouses were NOT returning; they had perceived this action by their respective LBS as total rejection of THEM.  This reflected the state of mind the MLC'er IS IN during the time of Replay; around the time of the Bomb drop.

I was ahead of most people by over 6 months; and I began advising  the SAME way I advise present day; using my Intuition to help people deal.   They ridiculed me when I advised letting go, letting God; change their behavior, start looking within themselves, but DON'T throw the MLC'er out.

Yet, it did work in my situation; and I saw it work within other people's as well.   As long as the LBS is willing to set aside their pride and arrogance; and begin learning to set healthy boundaries, learning to live for themselves AS IF the MLC'er would be walking away at any time; take this same journey, and I was actually STILL walking mine when I was doing so much writing.

I think that was why I wasn't able to write any kind of journey threads back then; I only knew to look within me to find what I needed to fix; which did lead to me seeing my husband and my marriage in naked reality;  the lessons I was continuing to learn; and was writing these things down AS I was learning them.

Wisdom belongs to the elder generation, and I have deep respect for my elders; even when I don't agree.  Most of the people back then had 10, and 20 years on me. 

 I argued that no one would listen; simply because I was SO much younger, but the Lord DID say to hang with it; and keep talking; they eventually would try my advice at least once.   I never advised anything I hadn't done myself, and what I was advising looked like "doormat" behavior; but it was working in my situation; and my husband was moving forward within the tunnel of that first crisis.

He made the choice to stay with me; and various things I did on the instruction of the Lord played a HUGE part in influencing his decision.  Now, he was one of those who would NOT have returned had I thrown him out in the beginning; just so you know.

Some people tentatively tried the advice; found it was working; then more jumped on the bandwagon.  What gave people the most trouble was the TIME it was taking to bring certain aspects forward.  The time factor is a huge problem with some here; just as it was back then.

I think what shocked people was when I returned last year STILL married; I don't think some of them really believed I would stay that way.  And they latched onto the fact that I was reconciled within my marriage; and really thought I had some short cut I could share that would bring them to the same outcome.

I suppose they were disappointed when they found out that I had walked the harder path, and that it still took time, even in my own case.  I never knew, didn't ask, just said that I'd had to take the journey to wholeness and healing; and only then, was I able to write that article; then later, the added aspects as the questions came up.

RCR would most likely have termed my husband a "clinging boomerang" in many aspects; there were times he got really mad; but the connection between the two of us continued to bring him home each time he was ready to come home.  He could have left at any time; but he didn't; regardless of his threats every time I got near the truth...

Back in the day I said the same things then that I say now; and I followed these SAME principles; as long as you're not being beaten, or in danger of your life; it is better if you can stand them staying with you; if they don't leave on their own; then through the learning of the tools you gain during your journey; you CAN learn to deal with and SURVIVE the emotional crap one endures from the mouth of a MLC'er.

It is often forgotten that I endured just as much emotional abuse from my husband as anyone here; and since he didn't leave home, I LEARNED to deal with it, learning in that process to set boundaries on his behavior.

On the other hand, marriage was designed for one spouse to teach the other HOW to treat them fairly, with respect, and most of all, with LOVE.   And if it takes some trouble along the way to start maturing BOTH spouses; it is what it is.

I won't get started on marriage vows, I just know I honored mine to the fullest; walked his crisis all the way to end; came out whole and healed; with knowledge on how to get to that end.

As each person is different, each crisis is different; what one will do, another won't.     I'm often glad for discussions such as these because I can always stand to learn something more about human nature; and other people's opinions are another welcome read.

One last thing I will leave you with; read on:

Anyone can gain street smarts and otherwise, if they are willing to put in the time researching and studying this or any other time of life.

I didn't ASK for all of the knowledge I gained over time; I simply inherited it; and over time I have written on every aspect you could dream up on the crisis; only I did NOT dream these up; I've SEEN these in action, and I passed them on in order to help others.

When it comes down to brass tacks; it doesn't really matter WHAT started it; although it helps to know...... what matters is the JOURNEY taken by all to grow out of this; but along with that journey DOES come the deeper intuitive understanding of yourself AND of your MLC spouse; who, believe it or not, is ALSO a part of your journey, AND a part of your issues, just as the LBS is a part of the MLC'er's issues simply because on parts the two were a part of each other's PAST.

The journey the MLC'er takes ALSO delves DEEPLY into their past to face, work out, confront, resolve, and put to rest their past mistakes; from which PART of their adult issues come about.

That's WHY two of the major decisions a MLC'er makes is in regard to his MARRIAGE, and HIS SPOUSE.  His JOB, and his LIFE; are two more issues and aspects he is faced with....The fifth decision is the direction his life will take.

I will put these in a list for clarity: There are FIVE decisions, (not necessarily in this order) a MLC'er will make in order to also move forward within the crisis:

1 His job

2 His life
 
3 His marriage

4 His spouse

5 The direction his life will lead going forward

I know you've read the stages of MLC that I wrote; and in the first stage entitled DENIAL; you'll find the various descriptions I've written in regards to AGING as being a CONTRIBUTOR to what the MLC'er begins to face.

I heard my husband talk about this, too; and he was 37 when his crisis started.

Do you REALLY expect me to write in the SAME way every time?  The majority of people who arrive here ALREADY know what's going on; they just need additional answers for clarification.   Only if they ask directly about the aging aspect; do I write on it.

Also, just for your information RCR AND Jim Conway; have ALSO written on the aging issue MLC'ers face that CONTRIBUTES to their crisis; it doesn't CAUSE; like everything else, it CONTRIBUTES it's part to the "perfect storm" that comes for almost everyone.

I'm always geared toward the LBS JOURNEY ALL needs to take AFTER they get some answers so THEY can understand MORE about this crisis.

I have NEVER made "excuses" for the crisis; I simply understand how it works having observed it firsthand; and in the situations of other people.   It IS true that during certain times they really are "out of their minds" due to MLC fog, pressure, and deep depression.

I have made it clear many times that the MLC DOES know what they are doing at the TIME they are doing it; so set boundaries on bad behaviors; and don't allow yourself to be talked to disrespectfully.  Otherwise, you really can't "stop" much of what they do....they will do whatever they choose to do when they feel they need to do it.

They are really NOT children; however, they are acting out in rebellion; and boundaries are called for to protect YOU; but you can't "force" them to do what you consider right; or even to do what's right. 

All you can do is protect yourself as you see fit to keep them from bankupting or otherwise hurting you in a physical fashion.

Sometimes various things you do or say will bring out spewing and deep confusion;(what RCR terms as "monster" and NOTHING you say or do will make any kind of difference; you're the ENEMY during this time; that is the MLC'er's perception of the LBS during the worst parts of the crisis.

Until the fog clears within their brains; you will NOT be able to get through to them anything that makes sense; they will interpret this as pressure, and run far away; possibly NEVER returning.

This is NOT the time during the crisis to decide they need to "straighten" up and fly right; the time for accountability comes LATER, once the fog begins to clear more within their minds;  you'll need to do as your intuition instructs you at any given time.

The one aspect I have seen pop up again and again and again; has been emotional traumatic damage that originated in one's CHILDHOOD, and YOUNG ADULTHOOD.

There are issues that came stem from there that are NOT always clearly recognized by the person going through the crisis; nor does the LBS have that kind of knowledge; yet  these will exist; and do come up to be seen.

The LBS will NOT always see EVERYTHING the MLC'er faces in the way of their issues; ALTHOUGH they MIGHT hear bits and pieces of things they NEVER knew before about their spouse.

Now, I did read about your husband becoming angry at what he's reading about the aspect of issues that can also drive the crisis; and I fail to understand why HE should become so angry.   He was only one of MANY MLC'ers that navigated the tunnel, and no two person's issues/aspects/problems/causes are just alike.

However, in order to reconcile a marriage shot dead and ravaged by the crisis; each person in the marriage must still face themselves and their own individual issues within; in order to move forward within the rebuilding of the NEW marriage's foundation.........and I will leave it at that point to keep from beating the dead dog beyond recognition. 

Yes, he's absolutely right that aging, one last shot at what he thought he missed, loss of youth helped contribute to and drive his MLC, influencing his actions; but he will NOT be able to tell you ALL he faced during his time in the tunnel; he really doesn't remember it all, but all he really remembers is the actions HE was responsible for toward you, but not much more than that.

There will always be things about him that you'll never know.

It really doesn't matter for him at this point; and it shouldn't; you AND he really should now be past this crisis, being able to remember it as a time in your life that helped your marriage rebuild, change, and become stronger at this later time.  This is all that should matter to either one of you at this time, Stayed.

Hugs to you,
HB

[Anjae]

Know this is for Stayed but I will highjack.

When the crisis arrives, the majority of MLC'ers are literally "covered" in issues that cry out to be heard, and this is IF they didn't face themselves at any time BEFORE the crisis.

Think can aply pretty much to my husband. He had a lot of issues from childwood, and even adultwood, related with is familt that were "covering" and upsetting him. There was also the regular job. He had taken it because, many years before, he made a business mistake, we lost a lot of money, and he needed a standard job. he got it. he was good at it. But...And there was I wanting to have a family (children).

That is why you see some MLC'er's "reliving" a prior marriage that occurred before your current one; and I'm aware a few of you have already seen THIS aspect at work within some of the various MLC affairs.
That's ANOTHER aspect of the crisis; one that can LENGTHEN the crisis even more, as a MLC'er actually DOES "relive" their lives in various ways to correct certain "errors" made within their past; and certain things they say will actually tell you where they are within their journey in the past.

I thing husband is reliving our marriage with OW2, doing some things, like traveling, we always wanted to do but never did. He takes her to all the places we wanted to go to. With OW1, he also took her to places we wanted to go, but refused to go with her to places she wanted but we never were into. Odd... I would say that is way of dressing, and his letters to OW1 could give me a sense of were in the past he is.

Yes, he's absolutely right that aging, one last shot at what he thought he missed, loss of youth helped contribute to and drive his MLC, influencing his actions; but he will NOT be able to tell you ALL he faced during his time in the tunnel; he really doesn't remember it all, but all he really remembers is the actions HE was responsible for toward you, but not much more than that.

Ah! Age. Mine was 36, about to be 37.  And I was told, over and over that he could only go and do it (the party boy, night life superstar live) "now" because, then, we would be to old. I, on the other hand, could do my studies and intelectual stuff until I die. So, yes, he wanted to grab teenage years. This time with the liberty of living them the way he pleased because there was no dad to stop him. Makes sense.
I have notice that they forget details. The big things, like leaving and so, they remember.

[Rollercoasterider]

Who says this stuff?  Good old Jim Conway, HB, RCR, last two who freely admit neither of them are psychologists or have much more then 1 semester of psychology at university?  The stuff I am reading doesn't DISMISS mid life crisis as nothing to do with AGE.  Why would it materialize with AGE especially around the 40-50 point, if age had nothing to do with it?
Does it make people feel better to be able to somehow make this about our spouses childhood?  Blame on the terrible parenting we all go.  What?  I just don't get it?

Does it really bother you that RCR has some college and I don't have any at all?   Is this some way of pointing out that we don't know what we're talking about?   You have every right to your opinion, but this looks like you are trying to cut us down to some kind of small size....and in the longer run; what you or anyone else says is not going to matter that much in 10 years.

I’d love to write a long response to the posts since I posted, but I need to work on the blog mailing issues and coaching posts… but I did want to comment to this.
HeartsBlessing, had Stayed not been referring to something I said earlier—I think in my initial post that started this thread—I might think that she was getting in a dig too. But I think this is more a reference to what I said about me not having an education in Psychology. The last and only Psychology class I took was my Junior year of High School—not even at University. I said it to emphasize that I am not an expert in this. At least not an expert according to academic credentials.
I think it is fine if other people want to label you or me or Stayed or Snodderly…experts. But I don’t think it is fair for me to self-label! I have to admit that sometimes I think of myself as an expert and I feel a bit guilty and am wary of such ideas because I don't want to inflate my head.    For me when I was at DB you (HB) and Snodderly were experts, and so I find it acceptable if someone considers us experts. But I guess it seems immodest to self-label. Maybe if I had all sorts of official academic credits to my name I would feel fine claiming expertise since the credits would be labeling me…Silly perhaps!

[OldPilot]

OK I will but in too.

I think we are all EXPERTS on MLC.
Each in our own way and we all bring different things to the table.

I have really studied this reading as much as I could about this, now I do not have as much real life experience in MLC. But my mother is BiPolar and so is my daughter.
So I know a thing or two about mental illness and can completly relate that we can not FIX it.
I have 50 years of trying to do that with my mother and I failed miserably.
If they decide to stay in crisis then nothing we can do about it.

And not to pick on college but Thundarr has a marriage counseling degree and we are teaching him.
I got counseling in the beginning from someone with a PHD and she was clueless.
So just because you have a college degree does not mean anything IMHO.

I think we all need to take what we need from the advice and apply it to our own sich with the use of our own intuition

Let GO and live our lives as if they are never coming back.

[HeartsBlessing]

Another thought.

My Uncle is a Psychiatrist (I know...Nurse Aunt and Pscyh Uncle... my support is good).  We have been talking about my husbands father.  He also had a MLC.  Both H and FIL were the same age 48-49.  FIL was gone for 2.4 years.  OW was never confirmed but he did move out.  He eventually came back and they just celebrated their 50 year anniversary in July.  No counseling, no help...just came back.  Told my MIL that he would go hunting and fishing whenever he wanted, but he was back.  BTW, I adore my FIL.  Funny, goofy,smart--- awesome Grandpa!

My FIL has Adult ADHD. I have a son 11 that has been diagnosed with ADD.  All three of my sister-in-laws have at least one child with ADHD.  Youngest SIL has D23 with Bipolar and severe anxiety.    My sister in law has struggled with depression.  H has been taking paxil since we've know each other (10mg for anxiety).

Is there a connection here?  My Uncle is intrigued but has no experience with MLC.  Although, he is learning from me...whether he wants to or not! 

It's possible there's a connection of a sort, here.  MLC is NOT a "one size fits all".   Now, your father in law may not have had a whole lot to see/process.  On the other hand, it is/was entirely possible he could have another bout, given some time, and disappear again for another period of time.
There's NO rule that says it all has to done ONE time; sometimes it's accomplished in recurring bouts of crisis, as long as there are issues to face, resolve and heal within oneself.

And ALL your father in law told your mother in law was that he would go fishing and hunting whenever HE wanted to, but he was back. 

I wish it were THAT simple for everyone; but that's not to be.  It is also possible he could be one of the ones who really DIDN'T have much to look at within; but time will tell on this one.

I would venture to guess that he returned different than before, if your mother in law remembered the before and after.

Regardless; every person experiences unsettled feelings during Mid Life; and it's programmed into each one of us by the Lord who made us ALL; the severity however, I believe, depends on the choices we make before that time arrives.

MLC is also a spiritual and emotional battle that only the person going through must fight as a individual.   People might try and pass off this particular aspect; but again, I don't dream these things up; I've lived them, seen them, and experienced them.

And before things get better, they must get worse, as the crisis burns something out of the MLC'er bringing about change within them.  I would speculate that would feel almost like the fire of Hades; having been "branded" like that, myself,  but since I've never been there(to Hades); I cannot say for sure. 

This is NOT an easy journey to navigate, and it's emotionally painful.

Furthermore, I can remember having a conversation with the Lord not long after Bomb drop; my intuition wasn't developed at that point, and someone else was used to help me, as the Lord actually DID send several people to intervene with me.
Bear with me, this does have a point, and might further help.

He said that it would not have mattered what I had done beforehand; the crisis would STILL have happened; as it did not have anything to do with me, and everything to do with my husband.   Now, He termed it more than once as a "Major Midlife Crisis complicated by sexual addiction"....this was what I was told; not only by the person He sent initially; but later on when my Mentor finally showed up; and then even later than that when my Intuition gift finally broke through; and opened within me.

There is a passage in Psalms written by King David that speaks of his MLC; I can't remember where it's at; but Jim Conway had referred to it in his book.   And the Bible contains passages regarding boundaries, divorcebusting tactics, and even speaks about the other woman in Proverbs.
Somewhere within God's Design resides this growing time in our lives....I can also remember Him letting me know that I, too, I had to navigate through, too....in spite of all I knew and learned...and I didn't escape this.

Anyway, I never got ALL the aspects/pieces at one time from the Lord; these came slowly as I was ready to understand and receive them.   And believe it or not, I never knew EVERY issue/aspect my husband faced; I just knew the ones that pertained to me, several that came from his childhood, what I knew of his history; and actually, the Lord showed me more than I expected; this was confirmed from him later on, too.

There were other events that occurred when he was a young adult that caused MORE issues within him; these were "errors" he made within his life and marriage.

The Lord further let me know that his crisis had NOTHING to do with me, personally, and it had everything to do with him...the SAME things I tell all of you.

But---He kept working on and with me to help me get on my journey; told me the SAME details about the learning about myself, my spouse, and my marriage.  Other people were sent that had ALREADY walked this same path, and recognized what I was dealing with; and they also assisted and advised me.

My advice written does NOT vary from what I was told; and it never will.   

I didn't find out for sure what had happened to my husband until a little over 2 years after his wreck threw him into the tunnel....and then he confirmed when this had begun, and he spoke of his changed feelings toward me during that time.

The issues within him; were coming out; one piece at a time; and I had to pay strict attention; because he would speak some; then withdraw to process; and this was during the latter part of Replay, more came while he was in Depression, even more started coming as he was processing his way through the Withdrawal stage.

Sheesh, I just realized where I was within this thread...but maybe this will help, too, sorry. 

[WarriorPriestess]

OK I will but in too.

I think we are all EXPERTS on MLC.
Each in our own way and we all bring different things to the table.

I have really studied this reading as much as I could about this, now I do not have as much real life experience in MLC. But my mother is BiPolar and so is my daughter.
So I know a thing or two about mental illness and can completly relate that we can not FIX it.
I have 50 years of trying to do that with my mother and I failed miserably.
If they decide to stay in crisis then nothing we can do about it.

And not to pick on college but Thundarr has a marriage counseling degree and we are teaching him.
I got counseling in the beginning from someone with a PHD and she was clueless.
So just because you have a college degree does not mean anything IMHO.

I think we all need to take what we need from the advice and apply it to our own sich with the use of our own intuition

Let GO and live our lives as if they are never coming back.

OP, this is why you are truly the Wizard.  I totally agree. 

[Dontgiveup]

I will weigh in also.  I mentioned this earlier in this thread....that I am not going to get caught up on the word expert.  But when it comes to information and knowledge about midlife crisis, the two resources that have the most credibility for me have been RCR and Jim Conway.

From my perspective, what sets RCR apart from other information sources on midlife crisis is the true, focused research she has done.  Conway's materials have been around for about 30 years.  RCR has taken it to the next level.  For those who may not know, RCR lists her study of midlife crisis on the home page.  It may not be academic in nature, but it is quite impressive.

•I've researched midlife crisis in depth, studying Jungian views of midlife and incorporating his ideas of psychological type to understand the differences in individual MLCers.
•I've studied Erik Erikson's stages of human development to gain an understanding of the roots of crisis and how they may manifest in adulthood.
•I've studied depression and the differences between overt and covert depression to explain different behaviours that are often not recognized as depressive.
•I researched the psychology of affairs, looking into the motivations for choosing a partner who is already married. Who does this and why?
•I've studied hypnotherapy to gain an understanding of language and communication in addition to learning to control my cycling emotions amidst crisis.

I do not personally know RCR.  But as I said earlier in the thread, there have been times when I read an article and it felt as though RCR must have been listening in on what my MLCer was saying or doing.  I believe this website has the most accurate information available on midlife crisis.

At the end of the day, I am thankful to RCR for helping me gain an understanding of this traumatic experience we call midlife crisis.