[Thundarr]

I LOVE this thread!!  I completely agree with Lisa and really needed to hear that to understand and make sense of alot of the advice that I've received.  This is my W's problem to deal with and fix, not mine.  I didn't cause it and can't cure or control it.  If my M ends because of this then I will not hold myself at fault.  I have the door open for her to return and if she chooses not to then so be it.  I take no blame for the breakdown of a good marriage if it's due to psychological and developmental issues that stem from even before we met.  It's like if she came down with a hereditary heart problem, I would not blame myself or beat myself up for it.  That would make me insane.

I also totally agree with Bon and the others who have clarified what changing during this time means.  I have just recently started to really detach, and the main reason for that is that I have been getting back to being ME.  I spent several hours playing a video game with S6 over the weekend and found that I was able to completely get my mind off of everything for awhile.  I've also been able to get into work alot more, and taking pride and investing in that is also a big part of who I am.  This past week has really been great for me and I now realize that it's because I've found a way to be me DESPITE all the changes forced on me, and that makes me realize that I will be ok.  Like most of us, I lost alot of weight early on and completely changed alot of things about me, but they were not me but rather coping strategies to deal with the trauma I was experiencing.  Now, I'm back and it's the first feelings of happiness I have had since BD.  I think these changes will be permanent because, like I said, they ARE the real me and not a me that I created for someone else's benefit.  Perhaps it will be the changes I have made to be true to myself that will make me attractive to my W again someday, but if not then at least if I find someone else that is attracted to me then it will be for the right reasons.

Voyager, may I invite myself to enjoy a margarita along with your wine?  I would be honored!!

[Anjae]

I see the LBS needs to work on themselves not as a way of bringing the spouse/marriage back, but as a way for us to sort ourselves out after such traumatic experience. Also, would include learning to love ourselves in working on ourselves.

Of course whatever flaws we had did not cause the MLC. And we can’t buy that much into what a totally confused MCLer tells us. Being it about all those terrible flaws we had (that we already had some 3«20 or 30 years ago and never were that much of a problem) or that everything, or a lot, in our marriage was wrong (again, they only find that out after some 20 or 30 years…right?...NOT!).

We do change with BD and a spouse in MLC. The situation on itself brings many changes upon us.

I thing a read of kikki’s thread Just in case you thought there was any doubt - it's not about us!!  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1771.0 that deal with brain function and how all the brain function are impaired/unbalanced during MLC can provide some useful food for though. It is a more clinically approach on the subject (DGU is having some nice arguments with me there  ) but I think it can give us another vision of the subject.

[Bewildered]

Wow as Limitless says a wonderful discussion!!

My H ticks all RCR's  box's and the articles as DGU says have to me been invaluable! and are a benchmark that my H sits alongside its spooky!!!

I have thought about where I am in this situation which camp I am in and I think this ?

I am many facets of me and whatever is happening with me it involves the present and the future
MY life is me, now and what I do now that affects me in the future then this applied to

Me
Me and my children
Me and everything else friends/extended family/work colleagues-clients etc.
Me and my MLCer

So which camp I am in differs dependent on who I am  dealing with !

Just me and I have to be strong and disciplined (tough and controlled as I run my own business and no time for falling apart) - except in the car on the way home at the beginning. and then every once and a while) 

Me with my children ...  I am tough and in control but love them unconditionally and (don't involve them in this situation - they are old enough to be hurt but old enough to have to deal with this in their own way - there to pick up the pieces and help them to understand what I have learnt that their Dad is not in a good enough place to be the man they need and so unconditional love and tough love rolled into one

Me and everyone else .., I am the most honest as I veer from unconditional love for and acceptance of the process to being shattered emotionally and physically 'done'. Friends are more appreciate and understanding and help me see different perspectives and help me learn to trust myself - my intuition - my instinct - but at times I need a push and jolt and a reality check.

Me and my MLCer well this is the hardest one .., I'm mainly in the unconditional camp in regard to how I feel about him, for now, but have sometimes at Monster stage and me not getting MLC process  (but think the tough love now is only used FOR ME, when its the last straw  It has to be really thought through WHY ? because the effort it takes me to do this has a detrimental effect on ME! so it needs to be because  there is NO Other way - the only way is to be tough.

I work all the time to be as strong as I can be,  not all the time do I achieve this but its more on track these days Yeah!!!

MLC made me in the early days hate the me I was, because he made me feel unable to be me not by trying to control him but by trying to fix him. help him, love him, care for him .... etc..

I know know that this is his crisis so he needs to find his own way out of it .. help when I can if it feels like NOT perusing, give truth darts when again it feels needed.

It was all about him and it is still but to a less extent - all about him (I can see the wheels of Mid life stages turning)   but I am not in his life daily; I am, I am sure (have proof) in his thoughts as he is in mine.     But only time will tell so .. I  live my life and take every day at one day at a time.

I know I will be fine. We all will be if we detach and let life happen ..

My H owes me a lot and I owe him too but I didn't marry him to notch up credits for payment at a future date so if he doesn't want me for what ever reason/s then its better he isn't with me  ...

I have looked at me, I have changed, I see people as they are and not what I hoped they could be, I don't try and fix them.

My tough love towards my H has  been tough to him when I need to keep my integrity and self respect intact;

I have control only over me, he has only control over himself; but how we both act NOW and in the FUTURE will determine the  future of me and him as separate people and me and him as ?
whatever

MLCer needs to work this out for themselves  - that we are worth the sacrificing of their ego's and taking the courage to say I made the biggest mistake ..... and risk us saying - yes you did but my life is better without you?

And I think all MLCer need to do this  ... because then they have put everything on the line for their chance of happiness and found out the answers and they now know the truth and  its now time to fix things - they need to do it again - and risk the chance of failure? with us, to try and achieve happiness with a full heart instead of a closed one.

If they can do this they will be OK with or without us and  that is my only goal  for my MLCer.

It is what needs to be done for equilibrium to be restored and a new beginning to begin again IMO   
new life, new marriage, new //

So what camp am I in ?? neither in totality BUT who is?? I'm as OP says and Limitless say have a foot in both at the same time.

But think I want to add another camp The Trust Camp
.
The ones that accept the situation, believe in the process of MLC and appreciate the time (Yes OP finally getting this)  and trust the outcome - that whatever will be, it will be the best for you. (Think of Doris Day and Que Sera Sera (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZbKHDPPrrc)????

So when I post I try to help by putting myself where the person is I am posting too and not make it about how I feel re: my situation - VERY hard to do I just said I try too but when it comes to expertise its our own situation and how we have dealt with it is what we use for guidance. This is what we can pass on ...  the bits that worked and the ones that didn't or what we have seen with our MLCer behaviours and etc.

The answers are impossible to find and  this forum isn't about answers its about behaviours and that is how we behave to our MLCer and them towards us and how we treat each other.

I have met many of the ladies on this forum and they are exceptional people who do not deserve this but we find strength in the situation and the acceptance of the process .. between us we aren't on our own.  This is invaluable.

When we help others we help ourselves to heal when we are cruel, unkind or opinionated towards others we stunt our own growth.

So if we ask for help by posting and we get opinions we don't want to hear - ones that could help us  - and we get angry - it is our loss.

If we want to journal and rant and complain then JUST say so at the beginning and no one will do anything but say Ok tough day hey? etc

This expert debate stated with a debate gone off the rails ..

Lets hope this thread can stop this happening again ... no blame just too much passion to fix and be heard!


B

[missybuddha]

Thankyou Stayed, re tough love and I know that I was so befuddled at first I gave my h the benefit of the doubt expecially when he came back from a trial sep . Bad move but that was where I was. right now I'm really beginning to detach, for my protection and it is my benefit.I no longer seek ways to fix this and am letting him have space. I feel the more I detach the stronger I get. I don't cry every day, actually not for over a week now and am enjoying (as a dear friend said) having been given permission to be single again. I'm not dating and not seeking that, single as in uncoupled, as in not having to care for him, not having to consider him , making more space in my caring brain(or heart?) for myself and my children . sorry for the hijack btw. but thank you.

[Silmarion]

I could never have been a student of MLC if I hadn't begun to read the teachings MLC on RCR's site.  Thank you.

BTW the word teaching for me means guidance, wisdom, ideas and that's exactly what I get from the forum too.

Sil x

[SpecialK]

I have learnt so much from this board - thank you RCR - and I feel I've come a long way particular in the last few months. 

I know MLC is nothing to do with us, but I for one needed to change the things I could change; it was way past it's sell by date.  When my ex came back after the first BD I hadn't done any work on myself and when he was back it was like treading on eggshells all the time.  As silly as it may sound, I was scared of saying anything in case it put him off me.  I let him have total control.

Since joining the board I have learnt stop tallking to my friends and colleagues about my situation - I was taking on board what they were telling me to do, and what they would do etc., (in all honesty no-one knows what they would do in any situation until they are in it), I found an excellent councellor.  I now learning to fully understand what detachment is and to really detach (I haven't made contact with him since begining of October, he's the one that's made contact albeit very slowly).  I am finding the more I do this, the more accepting I become of the situation; I love the days when I can really push him out of my thoughts.  Yes I still have my bad days (Sunday for instance), but if it hadn't been for this board or talking Nesquick2, I probably would have ended up talking to a psyhic which would have cost me a lot of money that I don't have.

No one is responsible for our happiness.  On reflection I wasn't happy, I had a lot of built up anger and resentment.  I always found something to get uptight about.  I would not allow myself to be happy.  I didn't like me and was always putting myself down.  Although I still have doubts about myself, I am a better, nicer person with a big heart and a lot to offer.

So thank you RCR for putting this together and all your hard work.  Thank you all for your continuing support.


SKxxx

[StandandDeliver]

So thank you RCR for putting this together and all your hard work.

Yes, thanks to RCR and her library of information and resources I think that I am alot saner, happier and level-headed than I would have been at this point otherwise. I moved away from town where H and I had been living and had to stop seeing a very good counsellor. After settling in to my new house and new city, RCR provided me with some counselling that was extremely timely and helpful, especially in light of the fact that I no longer had the outlet of my psychologist.

I have decided after a year of standing to let my life move on (note I did not say "move forward" because that is something we should be doing standing or otherwise). I am not stalling my divorce, H can have it. I have started dating again and have met someone who is very thoughtful and kind and romantic - I have no intention of rushing it with him or forcing him into the lives my children any time soon.  But while I was standing, I relied heavily on this board, and it still provides me with a lot of helpful ways to work on me, to deal with my MLCer (because I will always have to deal with him as we have a young family). My MLCer was not the only one to get married young. I was younger than him when we married. I did not date lots of people and just assumed that I had met the love of my life and we would be together forever. The way I see my own life now, I feel that H is living in another town with OW and shows no signs of wanting to change that. He could be in this for a long, long while - he could be in it for years. He does not know, or ask, or care about my life, and so I no longer feel that I am betraying him by seeing other men, our relationship problems belonged to both of us, but he broke the marriage. This is my opportunity to date other people and to find out if someone else can, indeed, be a better partner, lover and friend to me in the second half of my life. If not, then at least I will know that whether H wants to come back or not. And if yes someone else better fits the bill, then H and I were never meant to stay together, whether he wants to come back or not, and I will have had the chance to meet and share this part of my life with someone who is better suited to the "me" that I have found again.

I have always been a bit of "free spirit" and, although I believe in being monogamous in a committed relationship, I do not believe that we are only capable of knowing "true love" with one person. I see my new boyfriend as such a different type of man to H, he is brave in the areas where H is cowardly, he is mature and experienced where H was still like a young man, he is open and honest about things that H would not talk about. It is very early days and this man is not perfect, there are things that he says and does that make me go  at times, but I have learned that it is not my job to change people. At one point when I was telling him that I was worried that I was still working out things in my head with my old R and that I did not want to hurt anyone, my new man said to me, "I am an adult, I knew that you were separated, I knew that had children, I know that you have alot of pressures in your life, I am choosing to be with you because I like you and if it doesn't work we are both free to end it". He summed up what I have learned here. When I am with someone, I am choosing to be with them which means accepting who they are, not trying to "change" them, or make them do things my way.

I continue to be very grateful for all the things I learn and the perspectives I must consider when I come on here. So, standing or not,  you won't be getting rid of me anytime soon, I am afraid!

 

[nesquick2]

great thread. i have to say it has been tough as a lbs but i think once you manage to detatch then our lives move on so much quicker and for the better. ive met a lot of new people, made new friends and even found out who i could trust this last year. also being on this site has been a godsend. it feels good to be back laughing and joking around again. i take it to me that hubby has gone and if he comes back he knows where i am. i treat him just as a friend now and that only. the hardest thing for me is the financial side but ive protected the kids and me as much as i possibly can and a year on the roof is still over our heads yay. also waiting for the day my son returns home. thats been tough but my son knows i love him very much and sees me regularly. we all go through the same thing but are all at different stages. least we can all come on here and ask for advice or rant.

[Still]

This really is a great thread. I definitely lean towards the "unconditional" camp. I draw strength from my spiritual beliefs and work hard to "trust the process" of MLC. In the early days, we want so much to fix everything we can to "convince" our spouses that they have made a mistake. After time passes, we (hopefully) start to look inward to see ourselves more clearly.

The last thing that I ever thought would happen was the end of my marriage. I believe I was a good wife, but I had many faults that have become more clear to me as time has passed. We didn't cause our MLC'ers to walk away, but there were likely little problems developing over the years that seemed insignificant and just normal long-term marriage growing pains. The MLC'er may have looked at them the same way until their crisis hits and all those negative feelings come bubbling up to the surface and to the forefront of their mind masking all the little niceties.

We all have choices in our situations. Standing is not the easy path. It is wrought with judgment from those who question our decisions and our seeming "inability" to let go. One of the things that has perplexed me the most is the people in my church who can not understand my desire to "just be still" and not take an active role in ending this marriage. How many times people have felt the desire to offer me the phrase "you can't make someone love you". This is true, but they have never walked in my shoes to experience the life that I had and to know the core values of the person I have spent over 22 years with.

We have become such a "throw away" society. If it doesn't work, return it or walk away. I don't believe that is the answer. My own parents have 7 marriages between them. I have more step-siblings and half-siblings than I care to count. My H's mother just lost her 4 husband. We wanted to be the generation to stop this madness and to bring marriage back to the permanent, steadfast place it was meant to have.

None of this is easy. However, we have to keep moving forward. We have to keep getting ourselves to the place where our footing is sure and we can be confident again. If that means a healthy regimen, more education, exercising, joining groups, etc.......do it for YOU. When we focus on meeting own needs, everyone around us benefits.

[trusting]

Very well said, Still.