[Dandy Lion]

Thanks Stayed, really appreciate this 

[OldPilot]

I've been considering having OP or someone willing to help me to edit that particular post; or at least allow me back into it long enough to retitle it; leaving my initial story within

I don't have to say this but anytime any place.

Send me what to edit and it is done.

[Gallagher]

Thinking about how my H had our MC completely convinced he was ready to reconcile.  28 years in marriage counseling, had some experience with MLC and she was shocked with second BD.  Said she is trained to detect the slightest movement in the eye for deception.  My H fooled her.  Or really, has he fooled himself?  Does he believe all the lies he's been telling himself for so long.  He must.

I finally told my Aunt about what is going on in my life.  She has been a nurse for the past 20 years.  We've been having in depth conversations about MLC as she believes she may have gone through a MLC or MLT during my Uncles sickness (he passed away two years ago).  Anyway, my Aunt is reading articles from the site.  Her take is that as a species we are living longer.  40 is the new 60.  So, years ago we would have been dead by the ripe old age of 45-50.  Now we live to be 80.  Life is hard.  It's stressful and complicated.  Made sense to her that so much MLC is going on. We're just not made to take it all!!!

I will say that having the false reconciliation with H has been fascinating.  I know he loves me.  We had fun on our date nights.  The sex was good.  He would hold me for 30 minutes afterwards--there was love there.  But at the same time it was almost more painful then other parts of this journey.  After the sex he became distant again.  Unable to connect emotionally.  It made me truly realize that until he has worked through this, I do not want to be with him. 

I learn something new every day on this site.  I'm learning new ways to apply the information as my sitch changes.

[stayed]

I am not convinced that MLC is brought on by a troubled/unhappy/unpleasant childhood/adolescence.  I am sure any of these things would contribute to a person having a crisis but I feel that so many people are now having mid life crisis, it seems incredibly unlikely that SO MANY people had miserable childhoods. 

I looked up the divorce rates and the statistics for 20+ years of marriage ending in divorce are really quite horrific.  Once again, it seems unlikely to me, that SUDDENLY people after 20 or more years of marriage are unhappy with their partner, supposedly have been almost from day one of the marriage and absolutely everything the partner does makes the MLCer want to throw up and run away. 

When my h came out of his crisis, when asked what he felt caused it, he simply said, "I felt like I was growing old and that if I did not take advantage of what YOUTH I had left in me, the window of opportunity would prevent me from ever finding happiness."   Whenever I read the articles or comments by DGU, HB, RCR, anybody that this CRISIS is caused by a troubled/ unresolved issues etc.  he becomes quite angry.  He has continuously maintained, EVERYBODY HAS ISSUES... not everybody did what he did.  His childhood wasn't great but it wasn't horrible either.  In some ways, he had a good childhood, his parents were very committed to outdoor activities, such as fishing, hunting, hiking and did a lot of that sort of thing.  Yes, an all boy family of 4 boys, a fair bit of physical labour, but lets keep in mind, all 4 of these boys were tall, strong, very healthy lads.  Heck, I am one of 4, 2 sisters and 1 brother and honestly, I think I did just about as much physical labour as my h and his brothers did.  I don't think it did me any harm either.

I found a very interesting article on the increase of divorce with the change in D laws in the late 60's by Pres. Reagan.  There is also some speculation about the change in attitude about marriage.  Marriage at one time was security, responsibility based on the welfare and safety of the family unit.  In the 70's it changed to "soul mate" marriages.   A intense, passionate relationship to your mate.  Higher expectations of personal happiness over the welfare and over all good of the family. 

I have no objections to the inclusion of childhood/teen issues but please could we keep a bit more open mind and admit that there are a lot of reasons why people are having mid life crisis.  There is not reason not to honestly consider the fact that we are living longer, that 60 is the new 40, perhaps the idea of 2 being able to remain happy and content for 50/60 years or more, is a bit too much to ask of anybody. 

I do not think it is a good idea of giving people such an easy "out".  Why does SOMEBODY ELSE always have to be RESPONSIBLE for another persons state of mind.  Be it parents, grandparents, school bullies, whatever... perhaps, people just are more concerned about their own personal well being then they are about each other and the spouses they marry and the children they produce from their union.

hugs Stayed

[Trustandlove]

Interesting perspective, stayed, and one that resonates.  If childhood issues were everything, then it would be me doing this, not H.  Of course he has issues, but it certainly doesn't stem from not having been loved.  In my case the bit about growing old and wanting the window of opportunity resonates much more -- my H has said as much as well. 

If there were any childhood issues then they would be about not really talking things through, which is of course a big thing, but it isn't the same as having had a horrible childhood.  From what I can see, he wants now to do everything that he feels he missed out on for whatever reason.  Yes, his childhood formed him and he certainly is determined not to live the way his parents did, but fear of aging and the weight of responsibility to me explains much more than anything else. 

As does the idea that looking at me reminds him of all his inadequacies. 

And yes, those high expectations....

And so it goes....

[StandandDeliver]

I have to agree with much of what you said Stayed - my H has ISSUES from childhood, overbearing mother, high expectations in a father that he could never quite meet, that sort of thing. But it is a FAR cry from being verbally or physically abused or neglected.
I think that SO many factors come in to play, not least the innate personality of the person in crisis.
My H has a history of being a "people pleaser" an "accomodator", maybe some of that is environmental going back to the way he was raised, but how much of it is just his nature? Furthermore, it is do with perception too.
My H may feel that other people influenced where he is at in his life - things he "missed out" on or whatever.
But I was there with H from the time he was 18.
No one ever had a gun at his head.
He just was always less scared of the easy route. He is risk averse and did what was expected of him even when presented with viable alternatives.  I remember somethng that we did when we were younger that was exciting and adventurous but by no means "unusual", and he got physically sick from nerves ahead of time - he was vomiting in the toilet which I found very strange (I was doing it too and it did not wind me up like that).
He would consider a career change or something and then ultimately freak out and decide to do the safest thing. It WAS his CHOICE!!!

The person holding him back in life was HIM, not his mother, not EVEN his father, and definitely not me. It was HIM.
People know that mental health issues OFTEN have a strong genetic component.
Everything about us has a strong genetic component and I think that for some people there may be significant childhood issues that need to be addressed, but I don't buy that being the whole story. 
I also wonder if living longer, coupled with a materialistic, individualistic , youth obsessed and throw away culture in the context of relatively wealthy, time rich, educated societies has more to do with MLC than we willingly accept.

[stayed]

No one ever had a gun at his head.


The person holding him back in life was HIM, not his mother, not EVEN his father, and definitely not me. It was HIM.
People know that mental health issues OFTEN have a strong genetic component.
Everything about us has a strong genetic component and I think that for some people there may be significant childhood issues that need to be addressed, but I don't buy that being the whole story. 
I also wonder if living longer, coupled with a materialistic, individualistic , youth obsessed and throw away culture in the context of relatively wealthy, time rich, educated societies has more to do with MLC than we willingly accept.

S&D you could have been talking about my HUSBAND!  And this statement, omg, I so agree...I also wonder if living longer, coupled with a materialistic, individualistic , youth obsessed and throw away culture in the context of relatively wealthy, time rich, educated societies has more to do with MLC than we willingly accept.
OH YES!!!!  I totally believe this! 

TrustandLove, the number of LBS's I have met who like you, SHOULD HAVE HAD AN MLC, instead of their spouse, if you looked at their childhood vs their MLC spouse... give me a dollar for everyone I have read about and I would be a rich lady.

hugs Stayed

[Freddygone]

I had a brief rest from the forum and can't really leave the forum alone it is so interesting, and the cartoons of course are brilliant.
Refering to Stayed a few entries ago, I agree that the pressures of European / American attitudes has much to do with a potential panic that youth is slipping away, which accounts for the juvenile behaviour. The implication of some missing development in childhood or youth makes me think that this lack of experience makes the Mid lifer not be equiped to deal with this panic. In blind panic our brains may overload and not cope properly. Some of us are more mentally strong.
If you have had a number of boyfriend girlfrend relationships and you met up later in life with some chancer when your guard was down you would have the experince (maybe) to recognise a chancer for who he is.
I maintain that probably we have all been through these experiences that our partners are struggling with, but we probably had the experience, or witnessed someone else have this experience, so that we dealt with it in a way that damged few other people.
That is why this Forum is so valuable. Knowledge is King, the more you read the more you build up your own immunity to being damaged. We gain strength from the experience of many many people here and we filter it to suite our own situation.
We become our own experts in our own situation. That is the best we can do. Hopefully we can use that knowledge to understand and help those less fortunate.

[limitless]

Stayed,

I believe my H's MLC has much to do with his Narcisstic mother and the fact that he had stuffed his feelings for so long - I don't think he even knew how to express what he felt or even knew HOW or what to feel.

As my H wasn't the only child in the family and, thus, the only one impacted by his mother's selfishness - why did his other siblings not have MLC's? 

I remember reading a book years ago - I think it was called "Kaleidoscope."  It was the story of three women who had all been raised in the same family under very terrible conditions.  The story followed the lives of these women as they grew to adulthood - the three led very different lives with their own sets of problems.  One of the women, especially, had a very difficult life - as she struggled more than her sisters - unable to have a successful relationship with anyone or truly find love in her life.  Her sisters were able to marry, have children, and lead somewhat normal lives.  Even though the three has pretty much endured the terrible childhood - only one of the three seemed to truly suffer from it.  The gist of the story was that their lives were like a "Kaleidoscope"  - where all you had to do was turn the chamber ever so slightly - and the resulting picture was a completely different view.

My H's siblings have had issues of their own.  While, I believe, they all have addiction issues - my H was the only one who seemed to face consequences - i.e. DUI's, money issues, drug issues.  In any family that is run by a Narcissistic mother - there is a golden child and a scapegoat.  My H was the scapegoat - blamed for all, never able to do anything right - while his brother was the golden child, completely adored by his mother. n His father adored the younger sister.  From what I understand - all three lived in fear of her wrath and her acid tongue.  All three grew up adept at lying and hiding their true selves and lives.  Now, that H is back "home" living with Mom and Dad - he has now become the "golden child" - while his sister and brother (who moved away from Mommy) are no longer "preferred."

Many of my H's issues (I believe) come from a need to be accepted and approved of by his mother.  How unbelieveable is it that he had to abandon his own family to gain his mother's approval?  It's really sad, actually.

Additionally, I can now see that my H put me in this "mother" role through much of our marriage.  And, now, at Midlife - he resents that I have been in this role and rejects me.

Crazy, crazy, crazy. 

Even though raised by the same parents, living in the same house - each child has a slightly different experience and, thus, either learns their own set of coping skills - or lives a life of avoidance.  My H is the latter.  Run, hide, avoid.  He was an MLC just, like a ticking bomb, just waiting to go off.

Anyway...that is how I see it. 

L

[stillhopeful]

Hi. I think its a combination of things. I think my h's bad childhood made him insecure and to feel worthless. And that in turn causes him to make bad choices. He has always put his wants first. He has always worked out a lot. I think he thinks if he looks good on the outside he will feel better inside. Still hasn't figured out that its not working. One of the  things he said to me was that i stopped loving him when the kids were born. We have a 7s and 3d. What he doesn't realize is that people grow and change within a marriage and that I couldn't just walk out the door and go for a run with him anymore. I had babies (still do!). My life changed and I adjusted. He did not. He also said that he " didn't want to wait another six years to do things with me". WTH! We have a seven year old and three year old! He's 38 and I'm 37. Still very young for heavens sake. But je wants to do what he wants to do. What he doesn't understand is rhat he should be raising his kids right now. Personal gratification has its place but not at the expense of your family. What he will regret is letting his kids grow up without him. I don't k.ow how you can ever reconcile that.