This is exactly what I based my comment on, thank you RCR. I could care less about what degree people have or don't have. I will always question things that do not make sense to me. Sorry if that offends you HB. Didn't take you to be that thin skinned as you seem to say pretty much what you want, freely.
I'm surprised at you, Stayed; what do you mean that I say pretty much what I want freely? LOL!!
I thought YOU did that!
All jokes aside, I'm like you; I question what I don't understand. I prefaced my post with the fact that I DO love you dearly; and furthermore, I have a very healthy respect what you have to say, even though sometimes I don't agree; but I don't expect you to always agree with me; and I felt I was probably coming across a little too blunt.
And God knows I would NOT hurt you for anything; you've brought a great deal to this table over time.
Nope, you missed boat on me being thin skinned, Stayed; if I see something I have a question about, I ask it for clarification; just like you do.
Didn't offend me at all; I was actually surprised at seeing something like that written down, and from you, I probably SHOULDN'T have been so surprised; and so, I waded right in like I commonly do, and spoke freely, just like you said.
I'm not questioning your credentials HB or RCR. Or Jim Conways. I am simply saying we do not have all the answers. WE cannot talk about this like it is this, this and this and when I went through my this, this and this, and this what I was suppose to learn. I wish it were that cut and dried. I really do.
To be very honest, I wish it were that way too, one of those 12 step processes or something like you can find in a book about say, Alcoholism.
Yet, it doesn't work like that; it didn't work for me like that, either. It started out as trial and error, then it wasn't much easier when I found he'd left out one last issue.
And this last time, he's said nothing about it; but the last and final changes in him have been clearly evident that he's now past it all.
His relationship with our son has improved a thousandfold, as our son actually UNDERSTOOD what was happening; not only during the first one, but the second one, too. This really did make things easier for me, and my husband did some opening up to our son for a period of time during his second bout of crisis. I know about that, because Son was asking me questions about what his dad was revealing to him. Some of it I knew about, some I didn't; but I left that aspect alone...and at a later time, my husband opened up to me in other aspects.
I will say this; one of the reasons why they finally admit to being in crisis is that it all finally comes home to roost at a given time within them. I sincerely doubt anyone that goes through doesn't know they've gone through.
No excuses here, but unless a person has intuitive knowledge of what they endured; they are unable to explain the whats and whys of how they endured.
And since this is an emotional battle; it can make it that much harder to speak about it; those that come through successfully are more emotional than they were before; just like your husband is, Stayed.
You are right HB, my h and I are long past this. WE still discuss this because many people ask me questions, deep personal questions, that I pass on to him and he very GRACIOUSLY tries to oblige. The reason I continue to bring up the AGE issue, is because it OFFENDS him, how everybody tries to reduce its importance. He resents everything being REDUCED to childhood issues, resolved or unresolved. He freely admits it was a horrible time. It felt like he was watching a movie and he was the "star" actor. He feels shame, pain and still some fear, that he could be a person that could do those sort of things, to someone that he knows did not deserve to be treated so horribly. He hates that his children cannot "accept" the "crisis" alibi. He of course fears, that it will happen to one if not more of them.
Your husband still has some healing to do, Stayed, and the only way he's going to heal is to finish processing himself, and in time, reaching complete forgiveness of himself. From what you're describing; he's not reached that point. He's deeply hurt that his children cannot accept that he really did suffer through a major mid life crisis; having made some terrible mistakes that he can never take back or reverse.
The past itself is set in stone; he knows this intellectually; but emotionally, he still hurts for all he's done.
He's beating himself to pieces over something he cannot change.
He's become a giving, caring man; but in many ways, he's still broken hearted over his past actions.
His memories should be fading; but quite honestly; several aspects are still alive and well within him.
He's the ONLY one who can work his way through. He knows you've forgiven him; but it really is the forgiveness of himself that he cannot seem to reach; and this will take some additional time.
I understand his worry about the children going through this later in their lives; as I have thought several times of our son who endured through with me and his dad. And I wonder what will happen in the future, but know I don't have that in my control.
I believe you have about as many answers as I do HB. A lot of hypotheses and no real conclusions or solutions. For every answer, there a billion more questions.
There are never any clear solutions only trial and error in most cases. No one ever tells all they know; sometimes, the smallest details could make the biggest difference. Sometimes my insight will fill in the blanks, sometimes not; it all depends.
MLC can strike between the ages of 35 and 55; sometimes earlier, sometimes later, either triggered by a major event or even by a spouse that has just come through their own Transition, or Crisis.
To come through, and I DO know this for TRUTH and NOT hypothesis; EVERYTHING within a person must be faced, confronted, settled, resolved, and healed, and positive permanent CHANGE must take place within in order to come through whole and healed; and this takes time to complete.
The general time of a crisis can take 5 to 7 years, if not longer, but if it's shorter, the possibility increases that something or more than one something got "skipped" in that process; and this WILL bring on ANOTHER bout of crisis at a later time. This is another TRUTH I know; not a hypothesis. The times can vary from person to person.
There are other things I know for TRUTH; but too many to list, and I'm tired, anyway.
As each person is different, each crisis is different; what one will do another won't; but there ARE the aspects where the MLC'er act and speak just alike; which helps to figure out WHAT is going on.
The dynamics of the crisis are just as individual as the person going through.
After that, depending on each individual person, it's anybody's guess...but, there again; focusing on one's self, learning to be the opposite of what you were before, taking the journey to wholeness and healing, and learning everything you can learn about the crisis; and how it works.
The outcome is uncertain; but no time is wasted as long as you take the time to do the necessary work on yourself. The most confusing aspect of the crisis is that this is truly an individual journey where each person will do God knows what and arrive at God knows what outcome...personal choice is exercised at all times whether it be the MLC'er or the LBS. The LBS is considered the SANE one, whereas the MLC'er is considered the INSANE one.
Boundaries can be set for bad behavior; but don't look for the MLC'er to honor these boundaries unless they are enforced; and even then you may experience hard rebellion.
You really CANNOT use an ultimatum in the MLC affair if you might want to stay married after it is all said and done; and you still want the MLC'er.
On the other hand, you KNOW your MLC spouse better than anyone; and you would have a BETTER idea of what would work, and what wouldn't work in your situation/case.
Then again, the decision to stay married or not doesn't really belong to the LBS; it actually belongs to the MLC'er, regardless of what the LBS wants, and most do want to stay married if possible.
The LBS, however, can STOP standing, and end everything ANYTIME they choose; although a chance is taken when the LBS decides to stand.
I will say this: I knew the outcome from the beginning, Stayed; YET, throughout all the time I was walking through this trial, I was prepared for EVERY possibility that COULD happen, regardless of what I "knew". My husband could have decided at ANY time to walk away;(he had that kind of power, but SO DID I) and in spite of learning that aspect, I still chose to stand; whether I looked like an idiot or not.
It wasn't until I figured out that I had the SAME power of decision that he did, that my stand became much easier to carry out. I also came to know circumstances can change at ANY time, and I could have found myself NOT married.
That did NOT stop me from pursuing my own life, walking my own journey; and taking care of myself.
Have a good night.
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MLC & Experts