[Love being on higher grounds]

DGU,


I also strongly agree with you about the coping skills...MLC have MANY issues, but I do believe this may just be the one that cause an issue to turn into FULL BLOWN CRISIS!

hugs,
L

[Anjae]

Affaircae, there is a big difference between saying it is not the LBS fault and that the MCLer is the enemy. The enemy, if there is one, is the MCLer unbalanced brain/emotional umbalance/hormonal change. And the worst enemy of an MCLer is the MCLer itself.

It may be so that, in normal affairs, both parts have a fault to a certain degree but in MLC don’t think so.

“You wouldn't want to be in a relationship that was misery for you but "perfect" for your spouse--and somewhere along the road you might hope that they would care that it's not working for you.”

No, but I never notice that our marriage was misery for my husband nor that he ever though it was not working. Only a few months before BD (when he was already involved with OW1) did he star talking of how he thought the marriage was not working. However, he never gave any reason why it was not working. Only that he needed to be free, he needed space and be life by himself. Before that he was always happy with our marriage. Actually, after he left, he said he had always loved to be married and that it was He and his issues, not me. That he was the one that had not know how to solve his issues.

“FOR THEM things were not hunky dory and they had very bad skills to communicate that to you.  FOR THEM what you were doing to them hurt them deeply until eventually they hit an inner crisis point.  FOR THEM it was bad enough to consider doing what they know is wrong and what makes them internally ILL.”

Well, it was their inability to communicate or look for help (doctor, therapist) that lead them to the crisis. The LBS does not have a magic wand to read into their minds. And If they look happy and all smiley the Christmas before, one more reason to the LBS not to be aware there is something wrong with them. And what is the time between Christmas and BD as been just like all the other times of many years or marriage? Laughter, joy, some fighting (all couples fight, that is hardly a reason for MLC), not ignoring each other physical needs? If nothing was different?...

But sometimes we do see something is wrong with them, will ask them to tell us, to go see a doctor. They have told us they are not happy with themselves, we try to help, to listen. It still does not work. The MCLer will find AW/OM, get all infatuated and things just go downhill from then on. I did notice something was wrong wih my husband (so did he, he said he was depressed), and so did his company doctor. I and the doctor tried to make him say why he was not well/happy and to convice in to see a therapist/took medication. He never explained why he was not happy, did not accept counsel or medication. Hardly my fault, I would say…

Can’t see what I was doing to hurt him that took him into crisis and OW, except taking good care of hi. Besides, he himself told me it was not I but he. And he told me so again after OW1 was no more.

Their world my be real to them but it certainly is not the real world of the couple of the marriage. Their vision of the relationship is impaired. They are not on their normal self.

It is not a case of working on ourselves because we did not love ourselves enough. I did love, and still do, love myself enough. And yes, they have a mental disorder. Even if temporary.

Otherwise they would be like all those people that have normal affairs and not MCLers.

As for treating them with the cold shoulder, it comes a point when after you keep treating them with all your love, but all you go back is kicks and monster that, for your own sake, with do need to detach and let them be.

Given that all the parts of what he said had to do with him not being happy and it was not my fault but his not much I can come up with…The only thing he said that could have me though was his “I though you no longer loved me”. When asked why dis he though that the reply was “I don’t know, I just thought you did not loved me anymore.” One does not have much to work with, does one?...This is not to say I do not have flaws, I do. But my flaws were the same they always had been since 20 years ago. So were his. I did not a MLC nor an affair, he did.

As for the “you’re always trying to make me go shopping” that is a very, very childish, not to say silly reason for someone to have an affair, let alone a MLC.

[Rookie13]

AC, MLC is real, yes everybody who is married for years has some types of "issues" with each other. A could shoulder, a rant etc a few times a year or more.

That is a GOOD reason to get up and leave and abandoned kids, homes, drain bank accounts, relive the teenage years???. And then try and cling to us for more advice and assistance?

There's divorce reasons ( alcoholics, abuse, drugs, continous cheating, etc, etc.) and then there just plain old MLC and rewriting history is real in them.

Explain the 22 yr old girlfriend or boyfriend or the dumpster diving they do. You CANNOT miss MLC behavior vs a bad marriage behavior. That you can trust.

Want a good laugh, google MLC for dummies as the blue print for this mess is all there.

To me, it seems you have taken to heart from you spouse the knit pick'n things we all were told of why they wern't happy for "years" lol.

Sorry, I was not a saint, but definitely a decent H and good dad to the kids. Ex went off the deep end and trust me, even her own family saw it.

If you read posts here, you have to see how crazy and back and forth etc the spouse is. NOT many here will tell you that the spouse is stable and doing fine! Lol. Just MY 2 cents 

[Synicca]

Ill jump in here...

I firmly believe in MY case...That I DID have alot to do with Honey's crisis..Sorry, but Thats what I believe..I think that OUR personal issues played a part in HIS pain.

I think the issues got to be to much, he felt overwhelmed by work, family, money..etc.

But for 2 years...I didnt sleep in the same bed with him, he openly told me that he would cry when he left for work..because he missed me so much..I AM to blame for that.

NO R is perfect and NO ONE is perfect...There is NO perfect marriage. so to say you had a wonderful, blissful marriage...Would seem a little far fetched to me but that is just my .02

The crisis may have been started long before issues came to light...but there must be some validity to what most if not all say at BD.
My H also told me it wasnt my fault, that I was a perfect wife..giving, compassionate, and he hated doing this to me. That I did NOT deserve it...but he also cried telling me how hurtful it was to sleep alone....but did not blame his crisis on that fact.

There is always room to GROW in ones life...everyday is a journey, MLC or not.

((hugs))

[offmyrocker]

Rcr has stated that with the blame coming from the mlcer... There is a grain of truth... I had to look real deep inside me and figure out why my h didn't feel loved or had his needs met... Its there in what they tell us. Is it the cause for them making the choice to leave? No. Is it the cause for their choice to have an affair? No. But they also have very real feelings... I have apologized to my h because i grew enough to know that there were some things that i could have done differently... Better... No the communication was not there. He should have talked to me. And i was blindsided. But that doesn't negate what our spouses felt. I believe that until  both spouses are able to introspect and look at their contributions to the problems that led up to them making the choice to walk away or have an affair... That you can truly not reconcile... You have to be able to meet somewhere in the middle and to learn what it is that your spouse needs... Not what u think they need.

Thank you for the thread.
OMR

[Anjae]

AC, MLC is real, yes everybody who is married for years has some types of "issues" with each other. A could shoulder, a rant etc a few times a year or more.

That is a GOOD reason to get up and leave and abandoned kids, homes, drain bank accounts, relive the teenage years???. And then try and cling to us for more advice and assistance?

There's divorce reasons ( alcoholics, abuse, drugs, continous cheating, etc, etc.) and then there just plain old MLC and rewriting history is real in them.

That's it. There is a bif difference in the behaviour on an MCLer and a non MCLer. Of course a rant, a lack of communication here and there, some ups and downs (things that all marriages have) are not a good reason to abandon, drain bank accounts, have a regressive and juvenile lifestyle nor the type of marriage rewriting history that MCLers do.

Like DGU said, the LBS is always willing to work on the marriage. The MCLer is not. And also, DGU is right ALL MCLers are in fog, ALL. Not just some.

There is a huge difference between a normal affair and a MLC affair, a bad marriage and MCL behaviour. In a normal affairs, most times the straying spouse is willing to work on the marriage and does not want divorce. Divorce often happens because the cheated spouse wants one. In MCL we could say it is the other way round, the MCLer is not willing to work on the marriage and wants a divorce. The cheated spouse does not wants a divorce and would like to work on the marriage.

Also, a person that in a normal affair will not desplay monster to the spouse.

And, of course, we would notice if our spouses were miserable for years, just like we notice that is something wrong with them. We always notice that there is another person even if we have no evidence of the fact. We would pick and unhappy spouse that was so for years and years on end. Don't forget that the MCLer is depressed, the judgement is clouded.

[LeaveThePastBehind]

Very, VERY often an MLC'er will say something like "I haven't been happy for years" and what they mean is that resentment has slowly been building over the years until it became intolerable (crisis).  However, the LBS will look at photos from Christmas 9 months ago and say "S/He was all smiles!  LOOK!  They were happy!  They've just re-written history to justify!" but in reality, the nine months also included nightly fighting, ignoring each other, coming and going and barely seeing each other, the LBS saying snipey hurtful things, turning the cold shoulder to each other, being demanding or controlling or manipulative, ignoring each other's physical needs, etc.  So it's not 100% "re-written history"--there really and truly was something wrong for those 9 months but the LBS looks at the pictures as proof "they were happy" and just goes on to dismiss everything the MLC'er says!!!

So ultimately it is up to you to decide.  You can choose to put all the blame on your MLC'er (just like they are doing to you) and say "they have a mental disorder"  and "we only have to work on ourselves because we didn't love ourselves enough" and close your eyes.  OR  you can consider that a small portion of what the MLC'er said has a point.  FOR THEM things were not hunky dory and they had very bad skills to communicate that to you.  FOR THEM what you were doing to them hurt them deeply until eventually they hit an inner crisis point.  FOR THEM it was bad enough to consider doing what they know is wrong and what makes them internally ILL.  And yes a person in MLC does blameshift, does experience fog, and does justify--but the reason you work on yourself is because of the small percentage of what an MLC'er says that really is true.  You work on yourself to stop thinking of your spouse as an extension of you and view them as an entirely separate and equal individual who may well be 100% DIFFERENT than you--and to stop treating someone you say you love with the cold shoulder, fighting and blaming of your own.

I agree with all of this so completely. I was responsible for so much that went wrong in our relationship. Many would say "no, he's to blame" but all they really know is that he up and left with OP. They don't really know what went on behind closed doors, for years. At the very least, I was responsible for not loving myself enough to live my own life and relying on him, too, much.


I came to this forum declaring all the ways I needed and wanted to change, after finally & seriously reaching out for help through a therapist but realizing I just couldn't afford it after two sessions. So, I figured a forum could possibly help. All of this is precisely why I am not ready to see him yet ( he finally asked if we could meet up ) although I would like to. I just haven't completed fixing all of my issues just yet. There are many.

[Anjae]

Very, VERY often an MLC'er will say something like "I haven't been happy for years" and what they mean is that resentment has slowly been building over the years until it became intolerable (crisis).  However, the LBS will look at photos from Christmas 9 months ago and say "S/He was all smiles!  LOOK!  They were happy!  They've just re-written history to justify!" but in reality, the nine months also included nightly fighting, ignoring each other, coming and going and barely seeing each other, the LBS saying snipey hurtful things, turning the cold shoulder to each other, being demanding or controlling or manipulative, ignoring each other's physical needs, etc.  So it's not 100% "re-written history"--there really and truly was something wrong for those 9 months but the LBS looks at the pictures as proof "they were happy" and just goes on to dismiss everything the MLC'er says!!!

So ultimately it is up to you to decide.  You can choose to put all the blame on your MLC'er (just like they are doing to you) and say "they have a mental disorder"  and "we only have to work on ourselves because we didn't love ourselves enough" and close your eyes.  OR  you can consider that a small portion of what the MLC'er said has a point.  FOR THEM things were not hunky dory and they had very bad skills to communicate that to you.  FOR THEM what you were doing to them hurt them deeply until eventually they hit an inner crisis point.  FOR THEM it was bad enough to consider doing what they know is wrong and what makes them internally ILL.  And yes a person in MLC does blameshift, does experience fog, and does justify--but the reason you work on yourself is because of the small percentage of what an MLC'er says that really is true.  You work on yourself to stop thinking of your spouse as an extension of you and view them as an entirely separate and equal individual who may well be 100% DIFFERENT than you--and to stop treating someone you say you love with the cold shoulder, fighting and blaming of your own.

I agree with all of this so completely. I was responsible for so much that went wrong in our relationship. Many would say "no, he's to blame" but all they really know is that he up and left with OP. They don't really know what went on behind closed doors, for years. At the very least, I was responsible for not loving myself enough to live my own life and relying on him, too, much.


I came to this forum declaring all the ways I needed and wanted to change, after finally & seriously reaching out for help through a therapist but realizing I just couldn't afford it after two sessions. So, I figured a forum could possibly help. All of this is precisely why I am not ready to see him yet ( he finally asked if we could meet up ) although I would like to. I just haven't completed fixing all of my issues just yet. There are many.

Star, but if you, like Syn, think you play a big part in your husband's case and that it may make sense they leave and have another person, than, why do you mind so much they left and have another person?...Sorry if I'm sounding harsh.

Syn, all marriages have wonderful parts and not so wonderful ones. I had a good marriage.

But let me tell you that if my husband would had spend two years spleeping away from me I would not need a MLC to end the marriage. Clearly, something was wrong with the marriage if that was the situation.

offmyrocker, you say "I have apologized to my h because i grew enough to know that there were some things that i could have done differently." But did he apologise to you for what he have done' I'm certain that, before the MLC he had also things he would had done differently.

It amazes me a bit that is the "offended part" that needs to look fault within and apologise and not the "offender".  Let alone when they have not even come out of the crisis and are still out there doing wrong things. OK, we can look within, nothing wrong with that but to think we are the responsable ones for someone MCL, or have a great part to do with it, is going too far.

And what about the single people that have MLC and say and do all the things our spouses did (minus breaking the marriage)? Was it also someone elses fault?...I doubt...but...

[Dontgiveup]

From Midlife Crisis Takes Time

"But please understand that no matter how great or small your flaws and transgressions, they are not the cause of someone else's Midlife Crisis."

[Anjae]

From Midlife Crisis Takes Time

"But please understand that no matter how great or small your flaws and transgressions, they are not the cause of someone else's Midlife Crisis."

Thanks, DGU. I'm totally with you on this one.