[Anjae]

Annej said:"This thread was about AC thinking that the partner plays a role in someone MLC. Syn refered that she has not been sharing a room with her husband for two years and Star says she was responsable for so much that went wrong with her relashionship."


I wouldn't say, and don't believe, I was the cause of his mlc ( not even sure that's what's going on with him ) but I'm taking responsibility for the things that I clearly did wrong and regret, mlc or not.

I know you did not say you were responsable for his crisis. And you we not. But I sense a little bit of uncentanty in you. That, perhaps, if you've not done those things the crisis wouldn't had happened. Maybe I'm wrong in that feeling...

We all (or almost all) did wrong things, or not so right ones, in our marriages. If we were to go back we would had done them differently. And we most surely will do them different in the future.

However, the MLC transcends all the wrong or not so good things that were in a marriage.

[kikki]

Affaircare - I too read your posts and always enjoy your wisdom and approach.

I'm wondering if most things in life come on a spectrum.  Some mild - some severe.

All most of us have to go on, in the experience that we each have experienced.
For me - my H and I have been together for 24years, and were always very very close, but also independent in many ways.  We supported each other, communicated well and had a loving, fun relationship and have three wonderful teenagers.

Something very very serious occurred to my H over the past three years.  Not only have I observed it, but also our children have been devastated by it.  Our friends and family also no longer recognise my H.

From what I have read of your MLC, if you don't mind me saying, sounds very very mild in comparison to what I have experienced.  My H's crisis has been extreme.
He could barely function, his anxiety was severe, he was an enraged monster, and he ran fast ........  we had no idea where he ran to for the first three months. But he kept coming back every day to see me - all the while he was paranoid, and restless - and wouldn't come within a five metre radius of me.  He kept saying that people were going to think he was nuts for leaving me, as I am the most amazing person.

Over time, he is slowly coming back to functioning.  He has said things like - he felt like he was going to die if he didn't leave at the time (he now knows this was a strange thing to feel), he has said on many many occasions, that when he left he was incapable of having a relationship with me, that he is still incapable of having a relationship with anyone.  He is sorry that he stopped talking to me a year or so before the BD hit - but he said his head was so noisy, and he could barely articulate a sentence.

I could go on - but I just wanted to demonstrate that whatever occurred to my H was very real, and very scary.  He stopped functioning in any way as a spouse and as a father, and as a friend.

While I agree that every marriage has areas that could be worked on - my H knows from past experience that I happily work on anything that he brings up.  But here lies the difficulty - he stopped functioning as a partner.  He went into extreme crisis.  He stopped allowing me to meet any of his needs.  He kept me back from him emotionally and physically because he wasn't coping.  He said that he felt as if he was drowning, and grabbed onto the nearest log of wood (the OW). 

He has had a very large meltdown.  He himself admits that he thinks he had a complete breakdown.
I am hoping that he moves through this so that we can restore our marriage, and return to discussing things and working on things together.
While I am far from perfect, I am aware that we all have many things to work on in life.  Life is a journey.  We are not going to learn them all in our youth - some things take time.  This is how life is.  I agree - if the MLCer has a complaint or criticism about us, we should look at it sincerely.  This is part and parcel in any relationship.

It doesn't take away from the fact that most of us are dealing with very out of character extremes of behaviour.  I don't think for a moment that my H is my enemy.  I love him dearly, but something definitely has happened to him.  I hope he makes his way through the tunnel one day.

[offmyrocker]

No this post was about blaming the mlcer for everything. Like they do to us. Making them "the enemy" like they made us. How can we look at them rewriting history of the marriage and its wrong... and when we do it... Its ok. The LBS is not perfect and without any faults... It does not mean that if u recognise something that you could have done better... Then u r the cause! It means that u are human to and not infallible.

[Love being on higher grounds]

Annej,

Yes I do get that, however I think that what may be considered a pet peeve is a whole other story that bringing another person into a personal situation...especially if infidelity  comes with them

HUgs,
L

[LeaveThePastBehind]

Annej Said:

I know you did not say you were responsable for his crisis. And you we not. But I sense a little bit of uncentanty in you. That, perhaps, if you've not done those things the crisis wouldn't had happened. Maybe I'm wrong in that feeling...

Uncertainty, yes, but not about whether or not, had I not done what I did wrong, his mlc would have been prevented. I realize my situation is complex. I'm trying to make sense of it all and make the smartest decisions for me.

[crazyforhim]

What a great thread!
AC I have to agree as before I suspected MLC for my H and he announced he wanted to be separated but still live in the same house, I thought it was ME and what I wasn't giving him in the R (we did have problems in the R before BD).
I do agree they are going to have the crisis no matter what but maybe there are situations that may accelerate it rather than it happening later.
My mom passed away and then a few months later H's dad passed away- talk about crisis waiting to happen but then when OW comes along...don't know if the MLCer is actually looking for a R but an escape and the OW is everything that I wasn't in the R.
I have come to realize this first hand and as every situation is different I can relate to AC's post as I was not there for H before BD. Part of me didn't blame my H for leaving- I think I would have left me too at that time
Some MLCers have a worse crisis than others and some make it through as a MLC transition so do we play a tiny role in this...I believe so but not enough to cause it but enough to not help it (if that makes sense)

[LisaLives]

"FOR THEM what you were doing to them hurt them deeply until eventually they hit an inner crisis point. FOR THEM it was bad enough to consider doing what they know is wrong and what makes them internally ILL."

I know this topic is very related to a post I made on RCRs thread about experts.  I do not believe my exH is the enemy.  And in fact, he has said this very thing to me.  However, I still beg to differ.  I do not know a marriage without problems.  Mine had problems and some of them I caused.  BUT, and this is the big BUT, I was always willing to work on them.  I begged him for years to go to some sort of therapy with me because we had such huge issues communicating and compromising.  He told me he was miserable because I would not spend ALL our vacation time with his mother anymore, that it left him so hurt and empty that I forced him to have an affair with a woman who would do what it took to make his mother happy...

Well if you don't see the dysfunction in that...  I knew if I continued to compromise MYSELF as I had done for 20 years to make his mother happy, I could "save" my marriage, but his mother was KILLING ME.  I know I did things that hurt my marriage--but I needed help, I couldn't do all the heavy lifting.  I know he is in pain and he feels so bad for what he did that he had a heart attack, but I can't own that.  I am not perfect, but I loved him and wanted to work with him, but I needed help and he couldn't give it.  For 20 years I had given everything and I was drained and depleted, I was hurt deeply also, but I was not willing to give up.     

I knew he was unhappy, and I offered him a divorce.  I tried to tell him that if what he needed was someone to please his mother, I would gladly back away and let him find that person.  But, he said no, that he loved me and would never leave me.  I think part of him would like to disentangle from mommy--but he is unwilling to face the dark and ugly stuff inside himself and the consequences from her if he does.  For years he walked the tightrope between us, and then with our son's medical crisis, he finally fell off, and decided it would easier to please her.  The only problem is he doesn't recognize he never will...

I am not going to try to speak for anyone else, but I think most of us are willing to admit our marriages had "issues."  BUT, he found a replacement and walked away.  I have a lot I could work on, but there is nothing I could work on that would have given me, or would give me now, a stronger marriage with him, unless he chooses to help--it does take two.  It takes two, but in MLC there is only one person working.         

[kikki]

I agree Lisa - in MLC, there is only one person working on the marriage.  The other is running far.  This is the reality that most of us are dealing with.

[offmyrocker]

Kikki.... You described almost verbatim what my h went through... It was a pretty severe breakdown. He is still suicidal. He felt like he was going to die and if he didn't leave he would... Then when he did all the guilt and shame piled ontop of it. And right now he is trying to get out of the maze that he built around himself.


I think i am compassionate to what he is going through because my best friend has had severe depression all her life and has tried to commit suicide before she really got some help for herself. She explains what is going through their heads when they feel this way... So i came to the understanding that he didn't intentionally hurt me or our girls... He left me when i was pregnant with our 4th child and i lost the baby... I have had a lot i had to work through to get to the person i have become. It was not easy. Something just clicked inside of me recently and I changed how i communicate with my h. And i guess i realized that he felt that i had hurt him too... That is his perception and i guess i understand now that when Dr. Phil says if one person thinks there is a problem... Then there is a problem. I have tried to take all the exaggerations from the mlcer into consideration while in introspection. And i do realize that in there somewhere i found that he had some valid reasons. In any relationship... I believe that it would benefit me to change these things... And i apologize because i wanted to. It validated his feelings. I felt i needed to despite everything he did to me... That does take strength and it was something i fought because i wanted to punish him for what he did to me. But when I let some of that go... I felt a sense of freedom that i let myself off the hook to not have to carry that around anymore.

[kikki]

OMR - Scary stuff isn't it.  I had no idea what was happening at the time, but yes, have always felt compassionate towards my H, because he is seriously not himself.
I too have apologised for all sorts of things during this time, because that is how he felt about things.
Recently though - he again mentioned how critical I became before BD.  He said it felt such a big deal to him at the time, but now can see that I would have had so much to be critical about.  (Mostly it was because I was trying to suggest he slow down at work, so that he didn't kill himself). 
2.5 years later - he now tells me that he's worried that he might kill himself with how hard he works.  Yip!!  What do you say to that?
I validate.