[Trustandlove]

Mermaid wrote this to stillhere today.... i thought it was an excellent line:

Once, when I had again caught my H out in a huge lie (and was fuming about it), I came to the conclusion with my therapist that it would be counterproductive to get mad and blow his cover. Instead, I ended up saying, "I'm sure you had a good reason not to tell me the truth." Amazingly, it started H talking about what was really on his mind (the need to escape without explanations to anyone).

[Mermaid]

We are doomed to continue to repeat our failures until we are able to 180 and successfuly navigate life.

[LifeGoesOn]

Everyone trains in their detachment process in the first part of this crisis because at the end it is severely tested.
The MLC'er tests the reconnection process with animals, children, and finally you because they must learn how to do it too.
It is training and then testing just like in school.

OP's statement above, restructured my thinking about detachment, and brought together many concepts of it with my experiences. Thanks OP for flipping that switch! (lightbulb, that is)

[agape]

"I'm sure you had a good reason not to tell me the truth."

Beautiful and safe statement. Wish we used more statements like that when we talk to our spouses instead we are copying them, which is none but a guilt ridden replies or attacks.

[Trustandlove]

This was from a post by LG, I thought it summed up some excellent advice.

He said he had been trying to tell me how he felt, but I seem to be in denial and that I don't believe his feelings.  I told him that I believe his feelings are real, but I also believe he is going through something and he may not feel the same when he comes out of it.  I told him that I was not giving up because I believed that somewhere inside him was a man with integrity and morals who wants to do the right thing and work on our marriage.

When you told him you believe his feelings are real, but you also believe he is going through something, etc. etc.... you really are DENYING HIS feelings. He told you how HE felt. You don't have to agree, and he is most likely wrong under the circumstances, but he is correct... YOU DON'T REALLY BELIEVE or respect his feelings.

I did this same thing for the longest time.... sounded exactly like you, and you know, I was right every time! However, it reinforced to my husband that he couldn't talk to me, didn't have a say as it would be argued against by me or that I would always have to have an opinion on how "it's not really true." LEARN FROM MY MISTAKES... your husband will NOT feel "safe" with you until you shut your mouth and keep your opinions to yourself. You have NOTHING to gain by being "smarter" than him currently as he is not bonded with you the way he used to be. He is trying to get away from you, so you need to attract him. Let him have his say and do all of the talking. You will be doing yourself a huge favor if you do...

My husband has heard me talk, heard my opinions, and heard me "know it all" for 16 years. It is HIS turn to talk. Even if it is crazy talk! LOL!! Listening is a gift to the other person, and a real skill, by the way! 

[Mermaid]

I have been on another site and thye referred me to this link from divorce busting. It is called the 180. You may not be able to do everything on this list, but read it and realize that many of the items that have been said to you are on this list:

Q: What is 180 and how does it work? Submitted by Making It
A: 180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person. I would highly suggest that any new BS begin these behaviors as soon as possible. I am convinced that if I had implemented them, I would still be married. In retrospect, I did everything besides 180. I looked pathetic. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive. (Making it)

So here's the list:

Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
1. No frequent phone calls.
2. Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
3. Don't follow her/him around the house.
4. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
5. Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
6. Don't ask for reassurances.
7. Don't buy or give gifts.
8. Don't schedule dates together.
9. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
10. Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
11. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
12. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
13. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
14. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
15.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
16.All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
17.Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
18.Don't be overly enthusiastic.
19.Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
20.Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
21.Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
22.Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW." (Poodlepapa)
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Q: Why do I feel like this is my fault? Or is it my fault? Submitted by hit-by-a-train
A: You have been terribly wounded, and you’re searching for some kind of meaning to it all. Everyone does it. "If I had only taken my normal route home instead of trying out this new shortcut…..I wouldn’t have even BEEN here to have this awful auto accident!" is one example of this type of thinking. We cannot wrap our mind around the idea that bad things happen to good people. So we try to figure out where we went wrong and caused this crushing betrayal of our trust. And the comforting part of the idea that "this is my own fault" is that if we caused it, then all we have to do to protect ourselves in the future is to figure out what we did wrong and avoid doing it anymore!

The idea that this is your own fault is false. On SI, we call this kind of idea: "trying to own someone else’s $hit". You did not cause the affair – the affair is your wandering spouse’s $hit. You may be responsible for 50% of the problems in your marriage, but you are responsible for 0% of the affair! Your wandering spouse owns 50% of the marriage problems and 100% of the fault for the affair. Your spouse had many other choices about how to deal with marital problems; up to and including the "I want a divorce" speech. THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT!

[Mermaid]

I found this thread that T&L started a while back. Shantilly's post needs to go here today, with my emphasis;

Remaining calm has been my biggest 180.
In the past I would become quite aggravated, get in your face and made sure you knew my stance.
I have learned that it can be done without the fuss. I remove myself. Simple and effective. I don't like it I walk away.

I finally let go. I can't control him, I can influence him though.

If I remain calm he remains calm. If I am comfortable with myself he is more Comfortable. I treat him with respect not kid gloves. I try not to walk on egg shells around him. I always approach as if he is going to treat me well and most of the time it works.

I don't belabour him with my problems he can't cope with it. What I have found instead is great support real life and online and I use them.

I don't care about ow. I really don't. I get upset that it happened but I don't care about her. I don't hold anger against her she's not worth it. In fact as I watch this play out I know Dearheart was her affair down because I am sure she is in MLC too.

I don't like it. I sometimes enjoy the idea of her discomfort but in the end I want her to have a full and happy life without my H. Because I don't want her ever looking back to my H as her dream guy.

I remain calm because I choose to. It is my choice to do this so I MUST take responsibility for my emotions. I feel them. I don't hide them away or jump them down and indealing with them they lose their power and I am more easily able to deal with things thatcome up. I feel, I deal I let them go.

I choose this. I can remove myself if I want.   

[Mermaid]

Someone today also said that she treats her H as if he is going to treat her well. That attitude is a biggy.

Sorry, can't find who said it-

[Trustandlove]

I just noticed this again; thanks, OP, for bumping it up.

I also saw what I had written on Oct 28, 2010, and can't believe that I wrote that -- did I?  It doesn't soundl like me....  Or did I post something from LG? 

At any rate, I've been re-reading to try to gain more insight; I have so much experience now, do so much better....

I guess the thing that I'm trying to remember right now is:

FOCUS ON YOUR OWN "PERFORMANCE", NOT ON YOUR MLC-ER. 

That means making sure I don't get defensive, and not worry about how he takes whatever I say.  Remain calm, remain still.  No agressive, ego-driven actions.

[Tiffany Dee]

Those who know others are intelligent; those who know themselves are truly wise . Those who master others are strong; those who master themselves have true power. -Lao-Tzu