[Rollercoasterider]

Mission Statement
Welcome to the online community for MidlifeCrisisMarriageAdvocate.com. This site exists as an educational and supportive community for the purpose of surviving a spouse’s midlife crisis and/or infidelity regardless of whether the marriage survives or not, though it is based on that as a goal. Not all community members are Standers; it is for each individual to choose whether to Stand, or whether to step down. Not all community members share religious beliefs; this is a community for all Faiths; please be polite and respectful.

• To provide information, advice and support on how to Stand for marriage to men and women experiencing midlife crisis and infidelity in their marriages.
• To prevent divorces.
• To reduce the overall rate of divorce.
• To encourage an alternative to divorce.
• To encourage personal growth and loving of one’s Self.

This is accomplished by…

• Offering a community for non-judgmental support.
• Teaching and encouraging Agape and Forgiveness for all people and all situations.
• Providing resources for continuing development and education.
• Offering individual Coaching

We make no judgments; all are welcome. This is a place of love and support, not a place to degrade and insult others—including your MLC spouse.
Though heavily influenced by Christianity, people of all Faiths are welcome.
Though most of us are heterosexual, we do not discriminate based on sexual orientation.

When I wrote that I deliberately left a few things out because I wanted to keep it loose.
This is a website geared towards Standing and thus geared towards Standers. But I did not put it that way in the mission statement because that does not mean those who choose not to Stand are unwelcome. But as I state in the opening paragraph marital reconciliation is a goal of this site.

Sometimes we have to be very careful. We may not be meaning to attack and yet at times we are. Many of you landed here because you felt safe here and you felt attacked at other sites. But we are humans and so often the attacked become the attackers when they are in the majority.

So when we ask someone who is choosing not to Stand why they are here, I get it—especially when you wrap your question in reassurances about just being curious and not meaning to attack or be argumentative.
But when you ask it again and again and again…those reassurances become irrelevant.

I can understand once being a stander but no more but never have been a stander it makes me curious [why you are here at this forum].

Yes, I agree with that even more.

Those who come here as Standers and later choose to stop Standing stay because this is their home. Sometimes just asking why they are here makes them feel unwelcome—even though no harm was meant.

And for those who are not Standers…some come and become Standers. Some people are still just searching, they don’t know anything about Standing and they may think they have no options other than divorce. They feel powerless. So for them, this forum helps them to realize they have choices too.

And there are those who come in here and they are not Standing. They may not know what it is, but they still don’t want to Stand after learning about it. Some of them may come a few years after Bomb Drop like our recent poster, Guinevere. She had no idea this forum was geared specifically to Standing—she admitted it in her last post. That’s probably why she was surprised at the responses she received. Those who are feeling like Guinevere now feels soon after Bomb Drop are less likely to choose out forum as their home. It’s been a few years for her, so she may have settled here in her early days if we’d been here. Guinevere was no unsupportive of Standing—she said so in her initial post. Those who are unsupportive of it in general will probably not last long.

Once someone discovers that this place is overrun with Standers, they are probably not going to feel comfortable because they are going to feel the controversy…LettingGo will have a talk with them!

We need to remain open and welcome. It is not our jobs to change their beliefs or their minds. Maybe what they will get from us is learning to let go of the anger and choose forgiveness so that though they are divorced, they are able to have a more cordial relationship with their former spouse.

And what about those who would be Standers, but there situations are the rare extremes? Domestic violence, drug or alcohol addiction, sex addiction or chronic infidelity(much different than the infidelity we are experiencing), true personality disorders… They need help too. They need help dealing with their spouse who may be Boomeranging in their lives.

Standers versus NonStander may not be the same as Standing versus not Standing. Though I think that is much more about what this thread is about. It’s not about those who are divorced or divorcing versus Standers.

MLCers file for divorce—so many and maybe most of you will go through, are going through or have gone through the divorce process. You may or may not complete, but even I’ve been in it.

I have been on this site for about a year and a half. When I started posting, I was already divorced. I have never felt unwelcome. Quite the opposite.

And that is why…you are still a Stander. You fit in with the side that did not choose divorce—even if you were not the initiator.

AnneJ is choosing divorce, whether she is or is not initiating or doing the work. After Standing for awhile, she has decided not to Stand. She is here because this is her home and because it is kinder towards all people in the crisis. This is comfort; let’s keep it that.

Stander
A person who seeks to remain married while his or her spouse is seeking to escape the marriage; legal actions may or may not have been initiated or finalized. Some are Standers by action, while others are strict Standers in philosophy, believing divorce is an immoral action.
Standing usually provides an option of conditional return to a functional marriage for the spouse who is leaving, but some Standers simply Stand by refusing to seek or recognize legal divorce and refusing other relationships as an honor to their vows.

That is my basic definition of Standing and what it is to be a Stander. It is a strict definition. But let’s look at a Soft definition.

Soft Stander
Someone who may be accepting an (usually) unwanted divorce and who may or may not have initiated the divorce depending on circumstances. Though continuing with a single life and open to the option of finding a new love, the option of a conditional reconciliation remains open. There is no expectation and perhaps no hope or desire for reconciliation, but there remains a willingness to keep an open mind.

Lisalives, from what you’ve said before, that seems to be you. You may not expect it and you may or may not hope for it. But you accept the possibility and keep an open mind to it.

It could be possible that more non-standers reconcile than standers—how interesting would that be—the only reconciliations I know in real life were not standers.

That’s why I don’t fully buy into that. I think a lot of people out there just don’t like the label and what it stands for. They see Standing as some weak and doormat thing and they want no part of it. They don’t want a divorce, but he’s a jerk and she’s a b!tc# and they aren’t going to put up with this cheating and abuse…


Yes, Standing is for you. It’s something you do for your Self. But if that were all there were to Standing, it would have nothing to do with marriage and relationships. Living is for you. Exercising is for you. Eating healthy is for you. Meditation is for you…

What is troubling me is that those that are facing divorce, for whatever reason feel as if they are no longer welcome, or their comments are not needed. Maybe I am being overly sensitive, I don't know, but at times I feel like others with differing views posts things that are uncomfortable to read or hear, they get attacked for their differing views.

I think what we need to acknowledge and accept is that none of us here—most likely none of us—are Pro-Divorce.
The spouse of someone with NPD may not advocate divorce, but there are exceptions.
Not being Pro-Divorce does not mean 100% antidivorce.

But it is especially difficult when you become one of the exceptions.

And then there are the majority here who don’t consider their situation one of those exceptions, but just as I was certain Sweetheart would come through and we’d be together, you may be certain that whether your MLCer comes through or not, they aren’t going to choose to return to you. Maybe that was your intuitive Knowing. If you are a Covenant Keeper you will not date or remarry and will consider yourself married even though you know you will not be with your spouse again—in this life. Most of us are not Covenant Keepers. Most of us who have had the unique benefit of that intuitive Knowing would stop Standing. You may go through with Standing as a Grace period, but since you know your MLCer is gone, you might not call it Standing. It’s just you Grace period where you are not available for a relationship. The ending of the Grace period does not mean you start looking for a new relationship—you may or you may not.

80% of divorces are unilateral. One person does not want out of the marriage and the other files. Ha! The statistics probably miss a lot of unilateral divorces in which the person not wanting a divorce files because they need the protection.
Most, if not all, of us here are part of that unilateral divorce where we did not want it—regardless of who filed or will file.

We need to be open and helpful to everyone.

Now, that being said, this is still not a divorce support group and it is not a place to come to learn about divorce. You can share amongst yourselves the protective sort of measures you need to take. Offer advice. But there are additional informational resources out there on the rest of the Internet and you can provide those links.

The reason I do not have several board—A Divorced and Done board, a Reconciliation Board…is because I think that we will miss out on those stories if we separate and segregate. DB had those boards and I did not visit them…and I probably missed out. And I do not have a Piecing/Reconciling Board because  I know that often times you will be there and then right back on the main board after your MLCer leaves. People headed to Piecing at the first sniff of return interest and then got disappointed. I saw people post over there a month or two after Bomb Drop.

Now as the board matures there is going to be more reconciliations and more moving on stories but at present to me it feels that the pro divorce voices almost outweigh the standers. Standers need support as they go through this difficult time they do especially when they are still standing.
And once again it reads badly. We all need support. But if you have moved on you need different support to those who are standing. We would all get divorce support from our families. It is the standing support we lack.

Or that is lacking across the Internet relative to divorce support.

This maturation of the board is within my expectations. I do not think that most people who begin their journey Standing will continue to Stand.
I don’t offer return statistics because I don’t have then AND because I want to change them.
So suppose that as it is now, 60% of MLC marriages (how I define it) reconcile and 70% of those who come here reconcile. I don’t know—I just pulled those numbers out of… But in a few years my message may have spread and that 60% may rise to 70% and the 70% may rise to 75% and those may continue to go up. That is the goal. As people see reconciliations they may be more likely to remain Standing and to believe in it. We will have more people available to offer support to the growing community. And hopefully having my book published will provide an even bigger boost. Ah dreams.

And think of the reach beyond the forum that the book, website and forum can bring. Can we influence culture? Slowly?

I expect that as we grow we will finally have a big list of reconciliations. But at the same time we will also have a big list of divorces that are complete—no Standing spouse. And we need to accommodate both groups.

Based on what I perceived of the definition—RCR's stated definition—by simply dating, I abandoned my stand.

Yes and this is why I just offered that Soft Stand definition. Couples reconcile after being apart and with other people. To you it is not infidelity. But because I was considering myself still married (and legally I was, but I would have even if divorced), sexual relations with some else would have been infidelity and adultery to me. But I don’t think what you were doing was infidelity at all.

If all he is is a narcissistic jerk, there is no reason to stand, if he is an MLCer who has married his OW, am I supposed to respect that marriage, anyway, even RCR is not sure how she feels.

I know how I feel, but I know when to get off my soapbox because otherwise I’ll start spewing soap bubbles. There are too many facets to that situation.

Some of you here are on your 2nd marriages and you may have been the leaver in your first—even without infidelity. Should you not be welcome?

I know that I consider the person to whom I made my vows to be my lifetime mate—covenant spouse—and that we are not allowed to remarry while either of us is alive. And yet I’ve said that I’m not a strict Covenant Keeper. I was 32 at Bomb Drop. Even today I’m still younger than most of you. I get to be under 40 for 8 more months and 2 days…but who’s counting. I might have waited a long time, but I would have eventually considered dating. I like to be a self-contradiction!

Non standers are coming and posting with no other info than the fact they are divorcing...or waiting to be divorced, and it seems as if the blame lies solely on the spouse. These types of postings are hard for me to read...its seems as if some see divorce as the only answer, but really don’t elaborate on they why of the situation...if we were able to read the reasoning, at least for me...I would be much more open minded and interested in hearing them.

But many here started out like that. We are blameless since we aren’t he one who is cheating. Or we are more blameless. And you know what, maybe we are more blameless, but sometimes just that attitude keeps us resistant to Mirror Work. Let them vent and offer different perspectives. If we isolate ourselves from those who are not interested in Standing, how will we ever get converts?

Live your life like they are not coming back. That doesn't necessarily mean having other relationships. It can mean finding your own identity and independence. We don't need to define our self-worth by being accepted and approved of by others.

I had thought this was a response to someone commenting on the Live your life like they are not coming back statement, saying that it doesn’t make sense. But I can’t find where I saw it and yet I recognized this response.

So I was going to say that I did not really live my life as though Sweetheart was not coming back (actually forward). That is not a requirement. I knew he would be home and so I didn’t paint the living room purple—trust me I wanted to. There were a lot of things I did not do because they would have burned those bridges. Honour’s got the idea. It’s just about living. GAL isn’t something you do to fill up the time. It is living. Moving on is not something you do when you choose to stop Standing, it is about forward motion in live; it is living.

Standing isn’t still.


Okay, there has been a parallel discussion over on the Moderator’s Board—that is often the case with discussion topics. One of the key concerns is that some Standers feel uncomfortable posting and have stopped participating.
Forums have negativity. Sometimes it is negative to some and not others and so it’s not completely avoidable. What seems to be the discomfort is not the divorce support but what some feel is divorce encouragement.

Now that makes sense. I’m not saying I have seen it—I don’t read the threads in detail and so you guys are more familiar. And what some of you may think of as support, others will interpret as encouragement.

I support you as you go through your journeys. Some of you will choose to get divorced and I support you in that decision—though I may not encourage it. But some of you will get divorced without choosing and we are here to support you as you go through that process. What we need to encourage is that you protect yourself. Sometimes choosing an inevitable divorce is something we may encourage. It does not mean we are encouraging divorce, but that we feel it is what you need to do—as a part of your Stand—to protect yourself and your children.

Some people see that as encouraging an immoral act. Some see it as supporting your Stand and your security in inevitable circumstances.

So I am just going to ask that we all be careful and aware. This is a site that is about preventing divorce—amidst going through the process of divorce. So of course there are going to be divorces! If it seems you are encouraging divorce, consider why and explain why so that readers may understand. Maybe the person to whom you are posting knows because you’ve gone over it before, but that person is not the only reader. What does it look like to someone else?



Oh and just a general question… what does RL stand for? I’ve finally figured out that it must not stand for Rhode Island—I think at one time I read the L as a capital I!

[WarriorPriestess]

RL=Real Life 

[Mamma Bear]

 Thanks RCR I enjoyed that very much. RL=Real Life= Not what my H has now with OW

[growing every day]

And think of the reach beyond the forum that the book, website and forum can bring. Can we influence culture? Slowly

Wouldn't this be wonderful!!!!!

[Mac49]

Great discussion, to me it shows the quality and character of the posters that all opinions are welcome and can be civilly debated.

I'm divorced, was my MLC'r totally at fault - No I don't give myself a pass for the issues I brought into our lives however 2+ years of Monster's abuse, no matter how much support I received or knowledge was gained, was enough to avoid the inevitable that my marriage was bound for divorce.

Have I dated since the separation and now divorce. Yes, combating Monster's perceptions of my shortcomings were the primary driver of meeting new people, generating attraction and physical comfort that is so lacking as I was swept along this journey.

How do I know I'm a Stander? I think in simplest terms that undefinable emotional connection remains to that person, no one else was able to dent that commitment. With that realization it's become easier to be the light and shine in the stand.

[Anjae]

And think of the reach beyond the forum that the book, website and forum can bring. Can we influence culture? Slowly
Yes, that would be great. If we could get society in general, and, in particular, health professionals, social services, conselours/therapists, and courts to have a knowledge of MLC, maybe many of us would not need to divorce. Mechanisms to the protection and care of the LBS should be available.

In my country he have support available for drugs addicts, alcoholics, people with several disabilities and their families as well as for victims of domestic violence. But there is nothing for a LBS. Nor many people that get what a MLC is or what comes with it.

... that undefinable emotional connection remains to that person, no one else was able to dent that commitment.

I still have that undefinable emotional connection to husband. Don't think it will ever go away. It may no even be supposed to.
Too many years with the same person are not emotionally/spiritually erasable. Nor, i think, should they be.

It does not mean, however, if divorced (or separated) we may not find someone that we love and love us. Just that we will not keep anger/resentment from previous spouse and that, of course, said spouse had an important role in our lives.

[Silmarion]

I want to thank all those for sharing their ideas and views on this thread.

For me, this discussion allows opinion, disagreement, agreement, views and news all of which is useful for me to understand where I am and where I might go in the future.   The different posters and their way of thinking is for me, a parallel of the MLC journey.  I might not like all I see/hear/read but it gives me food for thought.  Some of it I will take on board, some of it I may discard.  At a later date I might realise that some which I discarded needs re-evaluating too!  Likewise, stuff I agreed/kept in the past sometimes begins to change.  Hope this makes sense and the short version of my comment I guess is nothing stays the same   


Sil x

[limitless]

In my opinion, any LBS who has been impacted by the devastation that is MLC belongs here.

All of our situations will not end in the same way.  To use RCR's refrain to that comment - I would say, well "Duh."    

Additionally, there would be no purpose for this forum - as the ending would be known and predisposed.

All of us came here wounded.....All of us need to heal.  Come to grips with what has happened to us and to our families.

In my opinion - while this forum is about "Standing" - I don't believe only Standers belong here.  In some instances, some proclaimed non-Standers may, with time, find themselves Standing.  Just as some of the Standers here - may have chosen to stand down.  It is a choice that we all can choose to make.  I think sometimes the LBS thinks that he/she has no choice in the matter....but one of the things we learn here is that we do.

I appreciate the posts from Standers and non-Standers alike.  And, as with anything I read, I take what I like/need/want and leave the rest.

Hugs to all,

L

[Foxberry]

Hear hear!!!

Love and hugs
Foxy xxx

[NewBeginnings]

L ~ I totally agree with you.