Hi everyone,
I suggest that we end this post, then start another one with a poll on stress and depression. This poll gives an interesting spread or answers, but as we can only choose one answer, we don't know how many MLCers represented here had stress or depression.
I don't have a problem with a formula for MLC. Regardless of the source/cause of those, depression + stress seems pretty accurate.
I think we should survey this to see if it's 100%
Plus, humans are not designed or equipped to deal with such constant levels of stress. We are able to deal with acute short physicall stress (if we have to run or respond to an emergency situation), but not with prolonged emotional or physical stress. That will cause us a lot of problems, often even leading to a series of illnesses.
This is absolutely true, although what is stressful for one person is not for another. There are ways that people can learn how to deal with stress, such as doing sports, meditation, relaxation. My H did all of these, but was not able to combat his stress, and got to burnout, which includes some aspects that seem like MLC; depersonalisation, loss of emotions and connection with friends and family. There's a good list here:
http://job-burnout.eu/burnout-phases-consequences/ Yes, stress is felt physically, has neurological and physical consequences, but it's not always possible to escape it. Coping with stress is attitudinal (being less ambitious/ perfectionist, for example), and behavioural (activities outside work, sleep, etc.). In certain professions, there are greater degrees of stress (medical professionals for example), but not everyone gets stressed, and some people, like my H, can't seem to unwind. In my H's case, it's because he's perfectionist, and cannot let go of this... why? Underlying issues which have left him with narcissistic defences.
Stress eventually leads to depression, as Anjae says. Depression, like everything associated with brain and behaviour, can be seen as a neurological issue. Every thought and every feeling we have is only possible because we have a brain to think and feel them in. It is a mistake to think that because there is a body and brain, that somehow the chemistry is in charge. The tail doesn't wag the dog!
Sometimes we need chemical help in the form of antidepressants to stop the neurological cycles of depression. I took antidepressants when my H was misbehaving. But these are not enough; we still need to take an attitude to change our lives, our behaviours and our perceptions.
I have trouble understanding depression as " deep issues of self in the social world and relationships", probably because I don't really understand the self thing, other than in Jung. And in Jung I see it as a poetry thing.
Jung was very intuitive, and is still a reference in psychology. Having said that, in the 55 years since he died, psychology has come a long way, and there are many different branches. It has merged with neurology in a neurocognitive and behavioural psychology, which might be an approach which might appeal more to those with a hard science background.
Social constructivism is the approach which studies how development of our mind and behaviour is socially situated and knowledge is constructed through interaction with others. So to have a self, we need a social world. It's based on many years of research, not poetry.
Even in neurology, there are constructs of the self, as I've posted elsewhere. The primal self is fairly constant, but we don't have much consciousness of that. The second level of self, emotions, is important in driving interactions, recording emotions according to what works or doesn't work in the social world (Damasio called these somatic marker mechanisms). The autobiographical self is based on stories we tell ourselves about who we are and our choices, and is constantly being rewritten. Far fewer choices than we think are actually conscious. This is because so many aspects of our learning have to become automated so we can focus on other things. This doesn't mean that we can't make choices, we can, but first we have to become aware of them.
In sociology, this approach is similar to Bourdieu's concept of system of embodied dispositions, tendencies that organize the ways in which individuals perceive the social world around them and react to it, and is fairly hard to change. Again, there have been several years of real world research to back this up.
These approaches help us understand why people cannot just look at themselves and decide to behave in a different way. Deep change is possible, but hard. Cognitive behavioural therapy can help, as can forms of meditation.
The one thing all these approaches have in common is that they don't see the brain and behaviour as separate from the social world. In fact, without a social world, the brain does not develop.
I read what you wrote Mermaid, but even if the depression comes from any of those things "medications, drugs, alcohol, food" it is the brain and body that process the mechanisms.
This is true. The brain and body process all stimulae that come in from the outside world.
[/quote]Regardless where the depression come from, the brain mechanisms are the same, the effect will be the same. what may be different is the treatment/cure. May, because once the brain is firing or not firing, all sorts of things, the game changes. [/quote]
This is true up to a certain extent. Some drugs can permanently change the brain, neurons, dopamine receptors. Some diseases, such as bipolar, will result in a permanent cycle of neurochemical changes. (In both cases, attitudes and actions will affect the outcome of treatment).
In other cases, the changes are more temporary.
So, social, genetic, biological, it does not matter, depression is present in MLCers. So is stress.
This is a very interesting question. I'm not sure whether this is always true. I think we should put this to a poll. And even if it is, why do some people have a crisis and others don't? I've had both, so have you, but I haven't had a MLC.
The question is... what tips them over the edge?
Is MLC real? -Background to MLC
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