[Which of these do you believe was the main factor triggering your spouse's MLC?]

Which of these do you believe was the main factor triggering your spouse's MLC?

Stress and/ or burnout

12 (25%)

Medication

1 (2.1%)

Dealing with childhood issues

10 (20.8%)

Hormonal changes

3 (6.3%)

Depression

8 (16.7%)

Neurological changes, unrelated to anything outside

1 (2.1%)

Underlying personality disorder,

7 (14.6%)

Social fears (aging, mortality, children leaving, etc.)

2 (4.2%)

Genetics

0 (0%)

External factors (work, OW, etc.)

1 (2.1%)

None of these (please add a note) Death of his mother

3 (6.3%)

Total Members Voted: 48

Voting closed: August 20, 2016, 03:03:33 PM

[kikki]

 Other researchers say there is no evidence for MLC at all: see http://www.apa.org/monitor/apr03/researchers.aspx

Thanks for the interesting information. I am always puzzled by this.

If you look at the research, evidence for a midlife crisis is just not there," says Margaret H. Huyck, PhD, a professor at the Illinois Institute of Technology's Institute of Psychology in Chicago. "Some men are vulnerable, but not all of them. You have to understand the specific conditions that make particular men vulnerable." (This is from the link above).

Isn't this a bit of an oxymoron? 

Isn't this like saying the evidence for dyslexia is just not there.  Some people are vulnerable, but not all of them?


I would LOVE for there to be an enormous amount of scientific documentation about MLC out there, but as there isn't at this time, I don't think it makes what our H/W's, us  and our families, are experiencing, any less real.

[Anjae]

Lisa, I believe in the end and the process. However I do not believe that the timing for LBS and MCLer are always the same. So, standing can be a very good thing to help and heal the LBS but that does not mean the MLCer will be ready at the same time.

RCR idea of standing does not include dating or a search for a new partner but several of us here have dated, myself included. And do want another partner and to remarry. But it is also true that, until very recently, I was not ready for a new full long term relashionship. Now I am. And, of course, my husband is nowhere near at the end of his MLC. After 5 years since he left he is still in replay. Our timings do not match.

[Mermaid]

I'm glad this has stirred up so much interest.

Having read everything I could in my searching phase, I came out  believing in a phenomenon that we can call MLC, but I don't think the cause is the same for everyone, or that everyone experiences it the same way.

So it's not a phenomenon, but phenomena?   

I do think that there are so many common psychological indicators in MLCers that you can see predictive factors, certain FOO issues, narcissistic tendencies, intimacy avoidance...

I have no doubt that maladative behaviours can lead to crises, when these no longer work. But these seem to be different problems, with different types of crisis, even though we can see similarities with some.

But I don't believe there is any real evidence of a "process" or that everyone gets through the tunnel or fog.  But that's just me.  I know too many men who have been stuck in MLC lala land for a LONG time to believe they are processing anything in any timeframe--they will die of an STD or a DUI accident before they defog...  But anyway, I just wanted to throw some alternate perspectives out there...  Lisa

Love alternative perspectives... I agree, the processes are tendencies.

Quote from: Trustandlove on September 23, 2011, 19:42:56

If you don't believe that MLC is a process, linear or otherwise, can that hinder the acceptance that is necessary to get through this? 

Our actions have consequences, of course. We can make things worse by our behaviour and attitudes. It helps if we have insight. But I don't think MLC is a process, I think that it's an existential crisis that can evolve, and even be resolved. We can only deal with ourselves, and this is where the positive attitudes of this forum are so helpful.

 Other researchers say there is no evidence for MLC at all: see http://www.apa.org/monitor/apr03/researchers.aspx

.If you look at the research, evidence for a midlife crisis is just not there," says Margaret H. Huyck, PhD, a professor at the Illinois Institute of Technology's Institute of Psychology in Chicago. "Some men are vulnerable, but not all of them. You have to understand the specific conditions that make particular men vulnerable." (This is from the link above).

Isn't this a bit of an oxymoron? 

You're right, the way she's put it is contradictory.

The thing is, is it about age? Is it to do with midlife? Or something else?

 My argument is that there is no doubt whatsoever that our spouses are in crisis. Many of them have childhood issues, (but not all); some of them have problems with aging, or their sexuality; some of them have more serious issues, and may have developed a real psychosis (not the temporary blindness to reality that many have while in defence.mode).

In the case of psychosis, or violence, I personally would not stand.

[kikki]

The thing is, is it about age? Is it to do with midlife? Or something else?

 My argument is that there is no doubt whatsoever that our spouses are in crisis. Many of them have childhood issues, (but not all); some of them have problems with aging, or their sexuality; some of them have more serious issues, and may have developed a real psychosis (not the temporary blindness to reality that many have while in defence.mode).

I see what you're saying now Mermaid - Yes definitely, they're all in crisis - but is it only because they're at midlife??

Maybe this gets back to the idea that many other cultures believe there are many types of crisis - spiritual, existential, healing crisis etc.

Personally I believe in MLC and I think it occurs because of all of the unique stressors that have come together at this age, and their coping mechanisms are no longer working for them.  I also believe that there is a great deal that we do not understand about it all, and is unexplainable to us in the Western world in particular, and I think the healing that needs to take place would have to happen at an extremely deep level.

[Mermaid]

Maybe this gets back to the idea that many other cultures believe there are many types of crisis - spiritual, existential, healing crisis etc.

Personally I believe in MLC and I think it occurs because of all of the unique stressors that have come together at this age, and their coping mechanisms are no longer working for them. 

Yes, there are particular stressors at midlife. In the West there are different types of stressors; more than ever now, we all have to perform, to succeed, and to achieve the happiness that is promised in our consumeristic world.

[kikki]

Agree - we live in an especially full on world, where nothing ever seems to be quite good enough.


A dear friend has taken me to see an acupuncturist who trained at the Shanghei University.  He is Chinese.  When I asked him if there is much MLC in China his words were - 'no, we have a spiritually connected view of ourselves and each other.  But, it is slowly creeping in as we become more and more materialistic.'
'It is so very sad for families, so destructive'.
When I asked what he thought caused it - he said 'too much pressure'

[Thundarr]

Great thread, and I thought I would chime in on a couple observations.

It is growing clearer and clearer to me that a great deal of the crisis my W is in has to do with her inability or unwillingness to grieve the loss of her mother to Alzheimers.  She has been dependent on her mother and I think still felt like a child inside.  Now that her mother is really not her mother so to speak, she has cast off everything around her in an attempt to regain the time when her mother was her mother.  Her first move was to her paternal grand-parents house, where she had memories from when she was little, and she is now living in the apartment complex where we lived when we got married and when our first child was born almost 19 years ago.  Coincidentally, it was around the time we had our oldest that her and her mother seemed the closest they have been in our whole relationship.  Her mother was over-bearing and would come over every day to check on our daughter and she would try to take over.  My W did not let her and did several things that she objected to, such as breast-feeding.  She was very dependent on her mother, though, and I have to say she was a great help with our daughter and also helped us financially when things were tough.

I hypothesize that her moving to that apartment complex is no coincidence, and that she may even be acting on subliminal impulses.  She admitted soon before BD that she had never cried over the fact that her mother no longer recognized her and stated that she was bottling it up.  When I asked her about it two months ago, she said she was doing fine with it and was just ok with her mother's condition.  I find this very hard to believe, and now she has stated that she's never going to her parents' house again as she is angry at her father and sees no reason to visit her mother since she doesn't recognize her anyway.  They are both in their mid-80's.

[Trustandlove]

Thundarr,

That all makes sense.  My H's crisis was triggered by the suicide of a close friend; a year after that happened H even told me that he hadn't dealt with it....  later he admitted that he just drank in order to not feel anything.  And in my attempt to help him I encouraged him to go to an alternative therapist who I had also been seeing.....  and she turned out to be the original alienator.......   

And H's mother now has Alzheimer's as well.....   

I still don't know if H has properly grieved for his friend; he said that he has stopped beating himself up about it, but perhaps that's in the same vein as him saying he's just not going to feel guilty. 

I think you are right when you say that you don't think your wife is "OK" with it all. 

But back to the original subject -- I do believe MLC is a process and do see that the only way out is through. 

[Thundarr]

T & L,

You sent your H to a therapist, and the therapist ended up becoming an alienator?  That's just incredibly wrong on so many counts.  She could have her license revoked.

[honour]

Agree - we live in an especially full on world, where nothing ever seems to be quite good enough.

A dear friend has taken me to see an acupuncturist who trained at the Shanghei University.  He is Chinese.  When I asked him if there is much MLC in China his words were - 'no, we have a spiritually connected view of ourselves and each other.  But, it is slowly creeping in as we become more and more materialistic.'

There is indeed a spiritual deficiencey in western societies. so much emphasis on acquiring things and possesions in order to be "happy" and fulfilled. We compare each other and afford people respect in relation to how much money they have. I don't believe it is a coincidence that my W has left every thing to keep the job she was going to lose.

There was once a dude who was so cool he could walk on water and pretty much do anything he wanted, even commanded the weather and it obeyed. What was his mode of transport? Well for a cool dude like this you would think the latest, hotest pimped up chariot would be his ride. Er, no...your humble donkey. I reckon this guy's self-esteem was so healthy he didn't need "things" to feel good about himself. Certainly didn't need to rev up while waiting at the lights.

A question: how do you define mental health? How do you know when someone is emotionally healthy? And how do you acquire emotional and spiritual health? The MLCer certainly needs it, and given the shock and trauma and the need to cope, the LBS needs it.

honour