[In this for ME]

But do not do it because you think it will alleviate your pain. It won't. I know from first hand experience.

I'm right behind S&D on this one. I know - I've seen me do it!!

But folks need to do whatever they feel might help the debilitating pain this absolute insanity inflicts. One person telling another anything doesn't usually work and for good reason; most folks need to experiance it all thier own way.

I think what anyone tries to help with here is being able to give multiple views on any given hurdle that we all pretty much face at one time or another. Sex is a big one.

This site held me back quite a few times from doing some things that may have been pretty stupid; not just sex- but I knew it would be my decision anyway when it was over and I didn't feel like I would have been a "lesser" person on the forum because of it.

I was really afraid to admit to the EA I had 16 years ago for fear that I would not be welcome here. That wasn't the case with that and it won't be the case with whatever you choose to do either Re.

[RivenIN2]

I think men (and I am not speaking for ALL men - just most) - are typically emotionally bonded to their wives sexually.  I am not say that men are not emotionally bonded to their wives in other ways, but I believe that the strongest emotion men have with their wives is during sex.  (I am not a man...I could be wrong). 

Thus, a man has a more difficult time forgiving his wife for being physically unfaithful.  The physical betrayal is worse.  I think men may be able to forgive an emotional affair (non physical) easier than a woman.
L

Though many might not agree with this I wholehearted do. I love my W and at times when we ML there is a heightened sense of appreciation and I love every inch of her and every sound she makes. Being inside of her and surrounded by her having every nerve ending in my body screaming out to feel the touch of her skin makes me feel closer to being alive and to her, at those times I want to thank her for giving me a gift, for loving me and sharing with me her body and soul. It is as close to being sacred as I can imagine. It is the thought of those times that keeps me from going out and satisfying my natural urge. It is also my greatest torture at the moment that she does not share that with me anymore. Hence to me thinking about her sharing that with another M is more hurtful then almost anything I can imagine. I sometimes think it is childish to think that way but I still can't help it. One of the many unresolved issues my W has that she is trying to resolve is that I was her only lover and she never went out dating or spent time on the town with her girlfriends. We married young and she has told me often that she wants to date other men. Now I know she has not acted on those things to any great extent but she did carry on a number of EA's online (I hate Facebook & Twitter) I was stupid and used my talents to electronically snoop so I was privy to it all. (would not recommend anyone ever try doing that it will just cause you more pain than it's worth) but I have already forgotten most of that pain and have been able to forgive her for it. I do not know if I could be so forgiving if it had been a physical affair.


I have just one other thing to add on a side note, I have been plagued with thoughts of sex for months now as I began hormone injections to treat a deficiency, I feel like Jekyll and Hyde but so far I have been able to keep the monster in check. I believe it to be a very personal decision as to weather or not someone Standing decides to have sex, sometimes it can steel your resolve and others will find it destroys them. I am after all a man and do not really have a problem separating the sex from intimacy for. I have long been under the influence of that double standard and no longer question it. I have chosen not to pursue a sexual friendship at this time even though my W has told me a number of times that I should as long as I am careful and use protection. ( She really blew my mind with that twisted thought) She seems to think that if I take care of it with someone else I will leave her alone and she will be more able to think about what she wants out of life. I told her that is not what I want and will wait for her to become sane again.
Anyway I guess my answer would have to be that I would not judge you if you did or did not decide to have sex during your Stand and I would not tell you that you are not Standing if you did. You have to do what is right for you and what will heal you in order to be of any use when and if they come to their senses.

[In this for ME]

She seems to think that if I take care of it with someone else I will leave her alone and she will be more able to think about what she wants out of life.
Yeah ...well ..crap... Just try it and you'll find out she'll be more than a little pissed off. THEN you'll have to sort through the mess that will create.

I love my W and at times when we ML there is a heightened sense of appreciation and I love every inch of her and every sound she makes. Being inside of her and surrounded by her having every nerve ending in my body screaming out to feel the touch of her skin makes me feel closer to being alive and to her, at those times I want to thank her for giving me a gift, for loving me and sharing with me her body and soul. It is as close to being sacred as I can imagine.
 
This is one of the most beautiful things I've ever read that a man wrote about the experience.

 And Riv? If you've never told your wife this? When things start to get to the point of putting themselves back together- PLEASE TELL HER.

I would simply be in a puddle if my exH described making love with me like this....

And ladies: This is WHY men may not be able to get past us giving our bodies to someone else.

 I have a feeling a LOT of men feel like Riv has expressed when they are ML with us; they simply cannot bring themselves to say it. 

Thanks Riv   

[WarriorPriestess]

I agree, Riven, that is a lovely description that rings true to me.  In this, I've come to the conclusion that I probably think more like a male when it comes to this sort of thing.  (Yes, I know there are exceptions but generally speaking.)  Physical affection and ML is the ultimate bonding experience for me.  Nothing else comes close, and without it I just can't feel fully loved.  Also, bouncing off the topics of a couple other threads, I'm not bothered by porn or erotica (okay, not counting violent or extreme stuff here) and have found it to be helpful and kinda fun in past relationships.  Although extremely painful, I can theoretically see the potential for moving past an EA, but just the thought of a PA makes me completely and utterly bat$h*t crazy. 

Remember that Friends episode where Ross and Rachel are fighting over a girl he slept with while they were on a break?  I had something similar happen with a boyfriend years ago.  We split up for awhile, and then were getting back together, with both of us SOOOO happy about it.  We were close to ML and he told me beforehand that he had been with someone while we were broken up.  I will always respect him for his honesty, and I will always love him, but I could never get past it, although we are still friends years later, and have lovely memories of our time together.

By the same token, I could not stay emotionally connected to one person and be physically intimate with another.  I would be doing harm to myself emotionally and psychologically, and be betraying my own personal ethics.  I would have to make a clean break first. 

[RivenIN2]

I love my W and at times when we ML there is a heightened sense of appreciation and I love every inch of her and every sound she makes. Being inside of her and surrounded by her having every nerve ending in my body screaming out to feel the touch of her skin makes me feel closer to being alive and to her, at those times I want to thank her for giving me a gift, for loving me and sharing with me her body and soul. It is as close to being sacred as I can imagine.
 
This is one of the most beautiful things I've ever read that a man wrote about the experience.

 And Riv? If you've never told your wife this? When things start to get to the point of putting themselves back together- PLEASE TELL HER.

I would simply be in a puddle if my exH described making love with me like this....

And ladies: This is WHY men may not be able to get past us giving our bodies to someone else.

 I have a feeling a LOT of men feel like Riv has expressed when they are ML with us; they simply cannot bring themselves to say it. 

Thanks Riv   

Thank you I am glad it rings true to you.

I have tried many times to relate that feeling to her over the years but I think it took until now for me to express it in quite this way. Saying "I love you" just never felt like it captured what I was feeling. I will remember to tell her when the time is right.

[In this for ME]

 Physical affection and ML is the ultimate bonding experience for me.  Nothing else comes close, and without it I just can't feel fully loved

Whew!  Boy am I glad another woman admitted to this because I feel the same way. That's why I don't think I'll heal fully until we do ML again. Even though he's been with someone else I can't let that stop me.

I have tried many times to relate that feeling to her over the years but I think it took until now for me to express it in quite this way. Saying "I love you" just never felt like it captured what I was feeling. I will remember to tell her when the time is right.

Yep I love you just doesn't seem to cut it sometimes does it??? And Riv if you can actually say this to your W? Your doing GREAT!! A lot of men could not. It's making yourself very vunerable. I'll also say that if you wrote her a letter or gave her a card with this written inside she could read it over and over again that would be just fine also. As long as she gets the "message"

This thread really needs to be locked and a new one started I don't know what etiqette is? Rediscover started it; does she lock it? I'd like to keep the discussion going maybe with a new title?

Help? OP or RCR..or anyone?

Edit: Keep this one going for a while, it will be OK.  - OLDPILOT

[rediscover]

Remember that Friends episode where Ross and Rachel are fighting over a girl he slept with while they were on a break?

Funny you mention this because when my daughters and I had the encounter with H & OW and I said, "You are married and yes this is an affair."  Both H & OW insisted we were no longer married because he left.  They both truly feel this is "a break".

[limitless]

Rediscover,

They are just trying to justify what they are doing.....as it is WRONG.......

I guess all you have to do is snap your fingers and viola!  you aren't married anymore!

Just more of the fantasy...pretend......that is MLC.

Hope you are doing well,

L

[Mac49]

Riven really struck a cord with me as I have have reread the thread I'm struck by the difference in how women and men (as least these few) have responded.

Men, myself included, attach tremendous significance to ML with our wife from an emotional standpoint and I agree that the violation of the affair for men is driven by the physical.

Women seem to attach significance to the initial physical and then the emotional connection which follows. The sex does not have the meaning (IMHO) as much as the emotional. The sense is its just sex.

Strange

Mac

[In this for ME]

Well again this is what I've read:

Women need the emotional connestion first in order to ML. (If it is to be meaningful)
Men on the other hand form more of an emotional bond with women through the physical.

Emotional connection for women are usually formed through communication. She needs to know she can feel safe expressing emotion. ( crying, venting about other things etc). As long as a man validates and doesn't try to "fix" or solve the problems she will go to him and feel safe. Women need a man to express being afraid or stressed out or any other emotion they might be experincing.

Men on the other hand resisit the verbal commnication as they are uncomfortable with feeling vulnerable or "unmanly" this has happened to them through conditioning since children of "Real men don't cry"  etc etc..Or they think they need to fix things. They don't they just need to listen.

That's why I told Riv to WRITE down the way he feels if he cannot express it. Mens love and emotion are acted out in the physical. Men NEED to know they are satifying thier partner. They need to feel accepted and wanted ( as do women)

So it's a wonder to me how men and women ever get together to begin with  I know for me sex became a feeling like I was being used because I never got any verbal renforcement from him. I just felt like he was relieveing himself. I got nothing out of it.