[With Gods Help!]

Hi Lisa i think your right with what you said...........my sisters first partner (long-term with a child) was always jealous of my sister going out.........he was very possessive with her if she went anywhere he had to drop and pick her up..........yet he cheated on her.........looking back me and sister believe he was in MLC he did everything the script says..................my sister wasn’t married to him and later met her current partner.........who as started MLC and he too is possessive of my sister but not in the same way her first partner was...........he does let her have a life.....................my H was terrified when i started my nursing degree..........he thought i would run off with a doctor and i never once gave him any reason to think that............guess what he cheated on me with o/w  ...........so yes it is their insecurities that cause this not ours xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[In this for ME]

My first H had MAJOR abandonment issues which at 19 when I married him  I really knew nothing about.

 His Mom left his dad with three kids for OM. His father was at work, his two sisters were in grade school and when she left the house she left him there alone.

 He was 3.. they found him under the kitchen table crying.

Needless to say I have forgiven him over the years.

[Mamma Bear]

  InThis and Lisa and wgh...OMG sooo sad. A little 3 year old abandoned alone in the house crying?
  Can you believe this? I can't even after everything I've read. Way disconnected.
   My H  was overly jealous and then abandoned us before I abandoned him. (that's the logic and they're not worthy)  Wayne's World Wayne's World..  
   I hate fear. It sucks. 'Hands and feet both bound by fear'   That's what the article says.  Backward forward limbo article.....Oy!

[In this for ME]

I hate fear. It sucks. 'Hands and feet both bound by fear'
Fear is the biggest demon I fight- it's the cause of all of my anxiety. I try to remember the phrase "Fear can paralize you; or motivate you"- it's really all our own choice......

[rediscover]

I'm not sure if I agree that OW is getting information from H that is untrue.  Before H left, both D13 and myself saw texts between OW and H.  Lying was not part of the equation.  Is he currently lying?  Yes.  I heard him with my own ears lie in front of OW, his children, and me.  Does this mean he always lied? No.  He didn't always lie to me.  He didn't always lie to his kids.

If standing means that you act as IF you spouse is not coming back and you have no expectations of the spouse then acting IF my H is not coming back means that I am moving on with my life. The relationship I had with my H is gone. Any relationship with him will be a completely new relationship.  It will not be a repairing of the old relationship.  The is no way that patching the problems will results in a fix, it will just need to be repaired again.  Do I want my H to disclose anything that has occurred since he walked out.  NO!  I don't care.  He walked out, he left the marriage we had.  I don't want to know what he has been doing or will do from the second he hugged me good-bye.  He doesn't want to know what I'm doing either- doesn't matter if I'm sitting in my room crying everyday, or out enjoying my life.  He doesn't want to know.  You know why?  He knows that no matter what that something is it's because of his choices. He put me in a situation I don't want to be in, but am expected to manage.  My life is a different life because of his choices.  My choices are based on his choices.  Are they morally wrong?  His more so than mine.  My marriage is over.  I love him, but he is gone.  Anything that causes us to connect in the future is a whole new relationship.

Suggesting I should divorce my husband because I want sex is childish and judgmental.  Suggesting i divorce comes from a place of anger.  Maybe it's some misplaced anger toward your spouse for the hurt they've caused.  BUT not your place to suggest divorce to anyone.  One of the things about this site is that we can come here to discuss our hurt, pain, love, joy, confusion, insecurities, etc. with others and without judgement.  It's highly offensive to me that anyone on this site would suggest I divorce my husband because you disagree with me. 

[In this for ME]

Re-
I understand totally what you are saying about living "as if". And what goes on now that they abondoned the relationship is none of thier business anymore I get that.

I know for me that particular night I easily could have gone to bed with the man I went to dinner with. I would have thought nothing of it the next day or ever again probably...unless I found myself in the position I'm in now...back with exh and the moral issue I would wrestle with would be ...would I tell him??

Now my case is different as I am divorced but in my mind after being married for 20 years then living together before then another 8 or so with a divorce that was final in 2 months ( actually should have been a month and a half) I felt like I was still married at the time of the dinner date.

 A piece of paper doesn't make you feel divorced. Maybe a piece of paper doesn't make you feel married either if the man your married to isn't around.

You know your H better than anyone and if you don't think it would be a big deal to him that would be for you two to sort out. IMHO

[Returned]

I would argue that what defines us as Standers is the desire to fully restore our marriages, and the willingness to confront the enormous difficulties which we face in order to do it. In some cases it may be difficult but doable, in other cases it may be impossible. We are holding out for the restoration of our relationship.

I do not think that sex outside of the relationship automatically means we are not standers. It is perhaps an unfortunate consequence of the loneliness which has been forced upon us by our spouses. Some people may find this loneliness unbearable, others may find that celibacy is something they can cope with. It is not for me to judge.

I can however see how sex outside of marriage could complicate a return to the marriage. There is the possibility of harming the other person who is not a stander and who may become attached. In a sense they are being used as the stander has no intention to permanently form a bond with this person- what they really want is there spouse back. There is the possibility that the MLCer may someday be upset if it is disclosed, and the alternative is to not disclose which also brings up issues of honesty. Men particularly are often horribly disillusioned by their wives having sex outside the marriage. No matter that the MLCer is being a hypocrite by engaging in their actions without taking into account the efffect on the LBS, they havent been thinking about the LBS needs anyway.There is also the possibility of falling into a rebound relationship which one is not emotionally ready for. So yes it could complicate your stand.

[StillStanding]

BUT not your place to suggest divorce to anyone.  One of the things about this site is that we can come here to discuss our hurt, pain, love, joy, confusion, insecurities, etc. with others and without judgement.  It's highly offensive to me that anyone on this site would suggest I divorce my husband because you disagree with me.

No, this site is intended to provide support for people who are choosing to Stand for their marriage. Most of that time that does mean listening with patience, love, and support to people who are venting their frustrations, but on occasion that may mean taking a harsh line or giving a reality check to people who may unintentionally sabotage their Stand and their attempts to save their marriage.

You don't have to take anyone's advice on here. But this site was started by a woman who Stood for her marriage through thick and thin, and saw it renewed; other posters are also seeing a renewed commitment from their once-MLCing spouses. The advice that we try to give is consistent with the principles of the people who came before us, and I can't think of any one of them who were dating or sleeping with other people while they Stood.

Most of the people I've seen who start dating other people outside of the marriage — for whatever reason — end up getting divorced: either they "trade up", their spouses see them as giving up, or one partner or other (or one of the OPs) starts feeling jealous or possessive.

[Mamma Bear]

  StillStanding, I was waiting for it!   Great response.  Sums it up perfectly. I love this forum. People are so intelligent in their discussions and so kind and caring in their hearts.

[rediscover]

Still Standing and Mama Bear

You are both completely out of line if you think that suggesting divorce to anyone in this site acceptable. It is not your place to suggest ANYONE divorce.