[StillStanding]

I'll bet most of the males who read this thread thought about it though.

Speak for yourself.

[Returned]

I caught that Thundarr was being humorous...I mean if we don't laugh about the ridiculousness of our situations we would have to cry right?

[rediscover]

Thundarr was not being serious.  He was trying to be funny.  If you can't laugh at the situation we've found ourselves in maybe that is another issue to work out. 
I hear enough bickering and arguing spewing from my H.  I don't need to come here and hear it too!! 

In all seriousness, sex and standing is what I wanted to know about. It's only a small part of marriage and it's no more a betrayal to have sex with someone outside of the marriage than it is to share details of our relationship openly on the Internet.  One of the things that upset me most about my H and OW is not the sex part, because sex is not always intimate, it was the part where he shared details of our marrige with OW. He shared private details about my life and the lives of our family with an outsider.  An outsider who "helped" him by "helping" him leave his family.
Why is it a double standard that H can have all the sex he wants with OW and IF I have sex I'm no longer standing? How can someone else tell me I'm not standing in this case?

[StandandDeliver]

Mac - I appreciate your point of view, but I do think that issues of intimacy and sex can be quite complicated. Most young women confuse the two, whereas many young men seperate them and have no problem having sex without confusing it for love. I have found as I get older (as a woman) that whilst I like sex with intimacy and love the most, I am more comfortable with my  sexuality in general, and do not necessarily require the "safety" of knowing I am loved in order to be with a man (that said, I am not comfortable sleeping with just anyone, there does need to be a spark and trust, it is just that love is not the same prerequisite anymore). I don't know why this is the case, it is thought that women in the 30s tend to have a greater libido (or at least feel more sexually confidant) than they did in the 20s, so maybe that is part of it. Maybe it is because in society young women who are "free with sex" are judged whereas young men are applauded - then there is the fear of an unwanted pregancy at a young age without the life knowledge, skills and stability to provide for it... In my 30s I care less about people judging me (I can have a sexual relationship with a person and my entire social circle does not need to know about it as they would when we are in high school or even college), I have had babies and I am not afraid of pregnancy the same way, I am already providing for my kids and raising them on my own and I know how to protect myself properly from pregnancy and disease, and I am not worried about expecting a man my age to comply with that - if they don't the deal is off  !!! Anyway, I don't plan to have sex with someone again until I know that I may be open to a the development of a proper relationship (because I don't want to lead someone on, but I am not ready for commitment to another man right now).

The times when I did break my stand I know that it was partly an ego thing - with my friend it was fine because we did both understand that we were "just friends" - not that we were lying to anyone to cover up an affair, we were friends who were having sex with each other, we were both consenting adults and knew there was not going to be a relationship from it, and that it would not ruin a friendship either. 

I do believe sleeping with the guy I was dating was a mistake because it contributed to my hurting him a bit when I broke it off (because he would not accept that I was not ready for the kind of commitment he wanted and was impatient about meeting my kids so that we could see more of each other - I was not ready for that at all). If I could change how I allowed that situation to develop I would - hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I had given up standing then as H was seriously pushing for divorce at the time and I was feeling futile about everything when I happened to meet someone who wanted to be with me. It goes to show that the generally the advice here is good - sleeping with someone (unless you have stopped standing and are fully healed) is going to hurt someone (and probably not us LBS's actually because, if we are honest, are hearts are still healing and we still have vestiges of love our MLCer for whatever that is worth).

[In this for ME]

He shared private details about my life and the lives of our family with an outsider

See this part doesn't bother me in the least bit..wanna know why??

BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL LIARS!!! EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM!!!!

And you can bet your sweet butt they have been or are lying to OW TOO!! About anything and everything!!!!

Think about it..they have made up a bunch of sh!t to get the sympathey, ego stroke, WHATEVER!! And even if they tell the TRUTH eventually the OW thinks it's a lie anyway!!!

It's only a small part of marriage and it's no more a betrayal to have sex with someone outside of the marriage than it is to share details of our relationship openly on the Internet.

I'm not sure about this statement but I get what you mean.It's apples and oranges.

[LisaLives]

In all seriousness, sex and standing is what I wanted to know about. It's only a small part of marriage and it's no more a betrayal to have sex with someone outside of the marriage than it is to share details of our relationship openly on the Internet.  One of the things that upset me most about my H and OW is not the sex part, because sex is not always intimate, it was the part where he shared details of our marrige with OW. He shared private details about my life and the lives of our family with an outsider.  An outsider who "helped" him by "helping" him leave his family.
Why is it a double standard that H can have all the sex he wants with OW and IF I have sex I'm no longer standing? How can someone else tell me I'm not standing in this case?

You have to do what's right for you.  As you can see, even some of the men on this board view sex as more sacred than you do--we are all different, with different values and expectations.  If you choose to have a fling, will you be okay with yourself, with the other person, and will you be okay if H comes back, but can't forgive you?  Or will you not disclose it?  I think there are probably a few judgmental people on here who would call you an immoral adulterer for even thinking it, but that is the culture of THIS forum--it is for standers and standing means honoring your vows even if your spouse doesn't.  Examine your heart and your head and do what works for you, but be honest, with yourself and any other person you choose to involve.  Be safe and be smart.  Love and light, Lisa

[StillStanding]

In all seriousness, sex and standing is what I wanted to know about. It's only a small part of marriage and it's no more a betrayal to have sex with someone outside of the marriage than it is to share details of our relationship openly on the Internet.

That is certainly a subjective statement. You may think there is no difference, but many people would give those two things different weight. Some may think that what he tells OW doesn't matter, because she's almost certainly not getting the whole picture.

One of the things that upset me most about my H and OW is not the sex part, because sex is not always intimate, it was the part where he shared details of our marrige with OW. He shared private details about my life and the lives of our family with an outsider.  An outsider who "helped" him by "helping" him leave his family.

As LisaLives said, people have different opinions on sex outside of the marriage.

In general, women report that having their husbands become emotionally intimate with another woman is more upsetting than a physical affair, where men report that having their wives sleeping with someone else is more upsetting than an emotional affair.

Why is it a double standard that H can have all the sex he wants with OW and IF I have sex I'm no longer standing? How can someone else tell me I'm not standing in this case?

When we talk about Standing, it has a very specific connotation to it; it's not about simply keeping your options open, it's about making a principled stand to preserve your marriage. It is possible that someone in an "open" or non-monogamous marriage could choose to Stand, but in my experience, people who live in "open" or non-monogamous marriages tend not to view marriage as a lifetime commitment. (Personally, I've seen several couples try the "open marriage" thing and it never, ever seems to work in the long run.)

No one is saying that he should be allowed to sleep around with no repercussions. If infidelity is a deal-breaker for you, then file for divorce. If it's not, then he is going to have to accept responsibility for his affair and seek to heal things and you will have to decide if he can be trustworthy. But you give up the moral high ground when it comes to him being intimate with others when you start doing it yourself. Can you really say that you are working on preserving your marriage if you're seeing someone else? Even if it's just "a fling" or a one-night stand?

For one, dating or having casual sex with others while you are married and hoping to reconcile can bring unneeded complication into your life. What if the guy who are seeing decides he wants a more serious relationship with you? Does he just get dumped? How is that fair to him?

Also, you run the risk of exposing yourself to who knows what you start sleeping with someone else. VD, a whole host of other communicable diseases, maybe even an unintended pregnancy. (To be fair, your husband is running the exact same risks, and the two of you will have to deal with that when the time comes.)

Finally, how do you think your husband would react to that if you told him that? Yes, he's being a dog and is having an affair. But if and when he comes to his senses and chooses to reconcile, you will have to answer for your behavior just as he has to answer for his. Is "But you started it!" really the argument you want to go with?

If you want to see other people, then maybe you should consider filing for divorce yourself. There is nothing that says that you cannot get remarried to your husband — my parents remarried, after almost a year after their divorce — and you have a clear basis for deciding what kind of relationship you want, with whoever you want, down the road.

[limitless]

Rediscover,

sex and standing is what I wanted to know about. It's only a small part of marriage and it's no more a betrayal to have sex with someone outside of the marriage than it is to share details of our relationship openly on the Internet.  One of the things that upset me most about my H and OW is not the sex part, because sex is not always intimate, it was the part where he shared details of our marrige with OW. He shared private details about my life and the lives of our family with an outsider.  An outsider who "helped" him by "helping" him leave his family.

That is the same way that I feel.  Does it bother me that my H was physically unfaithful?  Yes.  But, it bothers me more that he shared intimate details about our marriage and how he felt with someone - besides me - and that he didn't let me in.  But, felt comfortable to tell her.  Even though, I know, that she was given his warped view of what our marriage was like and - most likely - not told the "truth" either.  The physical part doesn't bother me as much as the intimate part.  (Even though both are betrayals and both bother me).

Why is it a double standard that H can have all the sex he wants with OW and IF I have sex I'm no longer standing? How can someone else tell me I'm not standing in this case?

I will start by saying none of this is "fair" to the LBS.  None of it.  We suffer - due to the crisis of someone else....although it is up to us how much we allow ourselves to suffer.  Once the initial Bomb Drop and once we learn that this is not personal - the amount we allow our spouses crisis to hurt us is completely up to us.  (Easier said that done...but this is the truth - as I see it).

Don't think for a moment that the MLCer is given free pass.  He may be having all the sex he wants with OW - but there will be a price to pay - and that is probably why Withdrawal and Depression eventually hit - after the "high" of Replay is over.  I would imagine the realization that you have betrayed those you love the most is a terrible, horrible feeling. 

According to this site - "dating" is not Standing.  This site is about stopping divorces and making opportunities for reconciliation.  So, it makes sense that we would be encouraged to NOT get involved romantically with someone else.  Because if we do - there is less chance of the marriage being reconciled.   

That being said, I would venture to say that there are probably more than a few LBS' here who may have had physical intimacy with someone - since their spouses left - and are still Standing.  Was there risk to their Stand by doing this?  I would guess so.  But, again, our Stands are risked everyday when we have doubts about whether or not we can continue to Stand or whether or not our spouse will be one to "wake up" and return home someday. 

If you are looking for someone to give you a "green light" and say it's okay....don't.  It really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.  What matters is what YOU think.  There is no one who has any right to tell you that you are not Standing for your marriage - regardless of what you choose to do.  That is the thing with free will - you can do what you feel is best for you.  If anyone judges you - then I say - shame on them.  We should not be here to judge...just to support each other, by sharing our stories....and just lending an ear.

For me (and only me) - I have been with my H since I was 19.  For me, I equate sex with love.  I don't know if I would be able to separate these from each other - in my head.  Do I miss it?  Absolutely.  Do I think it is fair or right that I no longer have any physical intimacy because my H left me?  Well, there are so many other things that I feel are unfair about this entire situation - so I might as well throw this issue in the pile with the rest of them.

I also need to add the fact that, at this time, I am pretty vulnerable.  I don't know that I would be able to make the best decisions about something like sex currently.  I may feel differently in the future - I don't know.

Rediscover....it's really up to you.  And, no one can decide whether or not you are Standing - except you.

JMHO.

Hugs.....to you, my friend.....Nothing about this MLC cr*p is easy.

Limitless

[Mamma Bear]

 Limitless, You write so beautifully. You said you're a writer? I would like to read one of your books.  That plus you said what I was thinking.

[Stander1964]

It's funny that I ran across this thread today.  I too miss sex and have for awhile.  H and I had a great sex life and I miss it!!!  Since from about a month from our separation I have been hit on quite a bit, and not just guys my age, but younger ones too.  Right now there is a younger man in my training class that I am very tempted to jump his bones.  The sexual tension between us is intense and we stay in the same hotel!!!  I have even thought of just calling up H and asking him to come over for a quickie!!  What is wrong with me!! 

I do have major things that keep me from really going after the young men for sex and that is self appearance issues.  I mean, no man has seen me naked for 21 years!!  Well, other than the Dr.  What would a man look at me and see?  A 47 year-old woman, with winkles and jiggles!! 

So, I guess there is not sex in the future for me anytime soon, unless I get brave and call H and he takes me up on it!