[limitless]

LG - really good questions and great feedback.

I haven't read the blog....so I cannot yet comment on what is said.

I do think it is pretty brave to post here...especially if you are from the "other side."  If the MLCer, or maybe I should say Walk Away Spouse - is open to answering questions - that could be helpful for all.  We just need to be non-judgemental - even though, in our situations, it is very difficult NOT to judge.....as we have seen the devastation to ourselves and our children - due to a marital break-up.

I am very curious to see where this goes.

limitless

[Stillpraying]

MLC or not, I don't think it is fair to blame your marital problems for your affair. I mean, I could have financial problems, but robbing a bank is not a good solution. The judge may even feel sorry for me, but in the end, he is going to send me to jail.

GREAT ANALOGY!

[LettingGo]

In all fairness, many people have affairs in order to stay in their marriages... perhaps they are with a spouse who is deeply depressed, or who is stagnant and bringing nothing to the marital table.... maybe both or one party, for whatever reason, is not interested in sex (as opposed to UNABLE to have sex, due to major illness or whatever).

I have known people who had the choice to leave, or to stay in a marriage of convenience..... where there is a commitment to the life and family they've built... not willing to destroy it close to retirement time when it would be financially devastating to both partners... but also unwilling to sacrifice their LIVES. I get that. I still think it is sad.

AND, the truth is, people divorce EVERY DAY and "move on" to new spouses and lives... their kids are grown and "happy" for them..... the don't look back with regret. I certainly don't want to be married to my first husband, though he was a good guy and we got along great!! We truly DID want different things in life..... the problem is.... I "fell in love" with my current husband (infatuation) and was deceitful..... my first husband never knew... but I DID!!! For many years, I justified it with "Well, I could have handled it better, but I didn't do so bad....divorce is messy and at least we didn't have children... we weren't right for each other!" but now I see the bigger picture. I can feel his pain of being DUMPED, without knowing why....

I don't know if WKramer's answers to any of our questions would enlighten us as to our MLCers at all!! And it is not for him to have to defend himself or his LIFE to us..... people do the best they can with the information they've got..... it's HIS life, and if it works for him, then so be it.

[L&S]

Sorry all if this is a hijack; I have not had a chance to read the blog and so don’t have any questions there…but this thread coincides with a past experience that came to mind recently, so it seems like it might be an appropriate place to share….

When I was in my early twenties I worked in a situation with two other women – one my age (a friend) and one about ten years older (I did not know her well).  During my entire employment, the older woman was having an affair and later divorced her husband.  Having not yet experienced a partner’s infidelity, I didn’t react with any visceral disgust or emotion to this situation, but even then, I always found it very strange that this woman believed that my friend and I wanted to hear details about this particular aspect of her life.  She was a friendly lady, but she seemed to lack social boundaries – or that his how I explained her weird disclosures.  Now I see it differently.  I think that the need to disclose is part of the affair…it increases the excitement (and perhaps allows the adulterer to rehearse and internalize their justifications)…but ultimately, I think its mainly just a technique for ratcheting up the excitement…She needed us, her unwitting co-workers, as an audience for some strange reason.

I bumped into her a few years ago and she was recently remarried (not to the affair partner, but to another man).  I anticipated (actually kind of dreaded) a long conversation to ‘catch up’ on her life but she ironically had almost nothing to say about her new husband.  Funny how the marriage doesn’t require an audience, but the affair usually does.  Whether one finds their audience in an unwitting and captive co-worker or by publishing an anonymous blog doesn't seem to matter.

[unbroken]

That jogged a memory of mine.
That same thing happens with some people who do extreme outdoor stuff - like the guy who had to cut his arm off - part of the thrill for them is to tell others about it.  They don't do it for the experience itself as much as for bragging rights.  In that guy's book he had a friend refuse to listen to his stories because that friend was concerned that listening would feed the guy's over the top need for adventure.  (Then he cuts his arm off and he tells the world in a book and a movie.  Hmm.)

[LettingGo]

Interesting... but because WKramer isn't here to defend himself, I'm going to do it. First of all... he shouldn't have to defend himself.... now, I know we are all CURIOUS to the nth degree as to how someone REALLY feels when they are cheating... so come ask me. I'm currently wearing my hair shirt, LOL!!! And I guarantee you, my personal experience doesn't compare to a MLCers.. it would be more in line with a OW.... oblivious to anyone but themselves.... just sayin' and admitting..... 

[With Gods Help!]

Hi everyone i have been reading on the Infidelity Forum..............i first looked on this site when Stayed mentioned it awhile back..........after thinking about my sitch and more so with how D21 recently acted.........I decided to dig deep and look at what or how i contributed to how D21 is and also my H........... .thanks LG you gave me much thought ......so i decided to do some research and came across this thread from SI              http://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=408443                    and boy did it open my eyes......a lot of this is and was me ......you need to read the whole thread 3 and a bit pages.....so to understand it better I ordered the book.........just waiting for it to come...........i want to say a big thank-you to stayed for mentioning this site and to Lg for the kick up the Ass lol ...........i will work on this........and if h and I dont R at least I will have a healthier R with someone else xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx   

[wkramer]

Hi wkramer sorry i must have read 35 somewhere and assumed that was her age (32 still fits the criteria for a MLC).......... and as for the assets i didn’t mean anything by that what i meant was your wife just went ahead sorting things out.......if you read anyone’s story on here you will see how other spouses reacted to there bomb-drop..........many do not do that unless they’ve seen the signs and found a site.......where they are advised to let the spouse go........this site does not advocate this but many others do...........reading your blog you seem to fit the bill for MLC.......age, younger woman. sex. etc so can you see how this can be seen also.............it will be interesting to see what happens later.........can i ask what does marriage mean to you...............do you believe in GOD,,,,,im not asking to have a go im just curious ........do you ever feel guilty for cheating on your ex-wife..........do you feel GOD accepts adultery .........do you believe in KARMA .......xxxxxxx

I'm reasonably sure it wasn't a MLC although perhaps I only understand the joke version of that - buying a sports car, dressing twenty years younger, colouring your hair, etc. I thought very hard and for a very long time before making my decision. I don't think that sounds like a MLC?

By the time I asked my ex-wife for a divorce we were already living on different continents. It wasn't something that we discussed - it just happened. We slowly, over a period of years, drifted apart. I know that in the end it wasn't a shock to her.

Marriage means sharing my life with the woman that I love. It means I made a commitment to her to spend the rest of my life with her.

I don't believe in God or karma.

[wkramer]

WKramer...

I have a question for you out of curiosity... well.. maybe even a couple of questions, and like I say to my husband, you don't have to answer out loud.. I just want to ask them as they may be things you haven't thought of, and for the record, I'm not trying to "teach a lesson" or whatever... just asking...


It could be that you never experience feelings of drudgery and sameness with your newer wife, but if you do, or if there is unimagined tragedy in your life that causes extreme stress, do you think you will bail on the marriage with her, or are there any lessons learned from regret from the cheating on your first wife? The reason I ask is... I cheated on my first husband with my second husband.... yep.... and I justified it with "it's fate, it's not sexual yet... just emotional cheating.... the first marriage was an unfortunate mistake, yada, yada..." but I now feel very differently... BECAUSE IT HAPPENED TO ME and my kids. And while I feel it was going to end up this way NO MATTER WHAT, I also believe that my current husband and I are together SPECIFICALLY to learn how devastating cheating is to ALL involved.. including the cheater. In fact, I feel VERY strongly about my own lack of character and the reasons for it.. much like an alcoholic drinks to avoid FOO issues or whatever.... I was not a serial cheater. I had my standards, LOL!! BUT, I "followed my heart" thinking that what someone doesn't know won't hurt them.

My second question is..... have you ever thought how you would feel or react if your current wife "fell in love" with someone else? What if you aren't always meeting her needs? What if she hits midlife and "issues" come up for her and her coping skills are to RUN into the arms of another "more perfect" man? What if she woke up one morning and told you she wasn't happy and it was all your fault and she had met someone else.... what if she told you it's NOT your fault... that she "didn't MEAN for it to happen... but it did and she can't help her feelings..."? Many people feel that relationships are not MEANT to last a lifetime.. that it is best to enjoy each other until it's not good anymore and then move on to greener pastures. Perhaps you legitimately feel this way? Would you give her a free pass to check out of your marriage in order to "find happiness" or would you QUESTION her sanity at that point? WOuld you wonder "WTH is going on? You never gave me a clue anything was wrong? WHy not tell me and give me a chance? Why throw away a marriage for some FLING???". Again, I'm honestly just curious... and for the record, I haven't read your blog. Your life is yours to live, not mine.

But you did come here and tell us we could ask anything... we who have been devastated by our spouses sudden choices.... KNOWING something just isn't right about the scenario they paint... and seeing WITH OUR OWN EYES after a period of time, that they admit they were LOST in chaos for a( that they sometimes go to great lengths to change to be more like US.....) HOPING it will SOLVE THEIR ISSUES and baggage they're not even aware of.... but discovering they have hooked up with DAMAGED women or men with a lot of "issues" of their own....

So.... I'm just asking you.... a man who doesn't believe Mid-Life had anything to do with his choices, and probably is telling the truth. But, I just wonder if what you are telling us is, you love your wife so much, that the end justifies the means, and you wouldn't change a thing? I know we can't change our past... BUT, we can learn from them.. and in my OWN personal situation, I DO regret my choices... even if it led me to my husband and our children..... many things could have been handled in a more honorable way, so FOR ME, I cannot honestly say the end has justified the means, and I DO love him very much.... the only reason I wouldn't change a thing is because I CAN'T.

Thanks for stopping by... LG

What is the point of asking questions that your husband doesn't have to answer out loud? Isn't the point of asking questions to get an answer?

What lessons did I learn? Do stuff together. Be actively involved in each others lives. Walk places together, eat together, discuss the news together, argue about politics together, laugh together, cry together. Be a team. I think doing these things is a good safeguard against drudgery.

An unimagined tragedy is obviously a more difficult question to answer. Fortunately it isn't one we've had to confront. I suppose the closest we've ever come to having to confront it was when genetic tests were carried out on our unborn daughter. We cried together and told each other how scared we were. We were honest with each other and that made us stronger together.

I can't imagine the circumstances in your second question so I don't know how to answer it. Our entire relationship is based on honesty (I don't need the irony of this explaining to me!). Problems are not allowed to fester and issues get raised, discussed, and dealt with. Because of this I don't think it would be possible for our relationship to deteriorate to the state you describe.

Did the end justify the means? Yes. Emphatically yes.

Would I change anything? Yes but partly for selfish reasons. Having to leave the country you lived in for years because of fear of arrest for adultery wasn't the easiest experience in the world! More seriously I regret that people that got hurt by our actions but I don't know what we could have changed to prevent that.

[wkramer]

LG - really good questions and great feedback.

I haven't read the blog....so I cannot yet comment on what is said.

I do think it is pretty brave to post here...especially if you are from the "other side."  If the MLCer, or maybe I should say Walk Away Spouse - is open to answering questions - that could be helpful for all.  We just need to be non-judgemental - even though, in our situations, it is very difficult NOT to judge.....as we have seen the devastation to ourselves and our children - due to a marital break-up.

I am very curious to see where this goes.

limitless

It's not really brave is it? If abuse starts to flow I just won't come back!