[StandandDeliver]

Interested in starting a discussion (not really relevant to my sitch right now, we are in Replay central), but on the compartmentalisation thread, crasy and T&L mentioned this discussion point.

So fantasy and reality collide to some extent throughout the process, I guess, but they run from reality and escape into fantasy. However, sooner or later, reality has to catch up. When, why, and how does this happen?
What goes on in the brain at this time?

[Trustandlove]

Thanks for starting this, S&D; I think I am still in replay central as well, however this is interesting to me because for all these years H has kept his replay activities pretty much separate from everything else, hence the compartmentalisation.  It's only now, and with this OW, that he seems to be introducing her everywhere, and trying to impose his version of how things "should " be "in this situation" on the rest of us. 

So what I was referring to when I said I might be starting to see that is the fact that he might be seeing just how much the children are hurting, because they are finally starting to voice this to him.  All along they have tried to say things, but report to me that he just says "I know" and then changes the subject.  They haven't really said "well, these are my boundaries", nor should they have, they are children.  But now particularly special needs S is saying he won't go see him of OW is there, others feel that way; we'll see if they act on it.  Before I was fighting these battles for the kids, telling H what they were saying (without embellishment); a year ago I did acknowledge that it was me fighting their battles; now I've told the kids that I can no longer do that. 

And rather than tell him what school was telling me I asked school to just send the same e-mail to him.  Now so far he's choosing not to do anything about it, but at least it's not coming from me. 

But I really would be interested in what really is meant by "fantasy colliding with reality".  For many I know it might be financial reality, thinking they'd have more than they did; my H may have some of this, but he does seem to have enough to keep up his lifestyle, so that hasn't hit him yet.  What other factors are involved?

[In this for ME]

I think the fantasy is a complicated concept. I can speak for myself due to an EA many years ago and to what ended the fantasy for me.

This was a long distance ea. Mostly by phone then manifested itself in us being able to meet ( again as this was a reoccuring thing every few years he'd get ahold of me).

I know that the years that passed in between were ones of where I would think of him and remember the times we had shared and always wondered what it would have been like had the relationship not been so on again off again.

I had waited like this for him for about 20 years when he finally came back this last time. By then in my head I was more curious that really feeling it was love or whatever 

The thing that somewhat ended it for me was his idea that I would come live with him ( both of my girls were very small then) and we would be happy living on "peanut butter and jelly sandwiches" That phrase woke me up BIG TIME.

I wasn't in any kind of comfortable position financially being married to EXH.

 BUT

 I was NOT going to:

A) Leave NYS with my girls (Exh NEVER would have put up with that)
B) Struggle even harder financially. If this guy's aspirations were to keep us in pb&j's  FORGET IT! I had children to raise. I myself am not high maintainace so it wasn't because of me that I needed to have something more secure financially.

I think the kicker was one morning I went to see him and he was drinking vodka straight out of a 1/2 gallon glass jug- I mean right out of the jug and it was 9 am. I knew he drank- but holy sh!t..!!!

So I think it can be something pretty simple that jars you back into reality. Some people might be more stubborn than others to admit  to the mistake.  Or that the guilt comes into play weights too heavily and that's why the fantasy keeps going.

 But I'm pretty sure whatever it is; AIN'T love.

[In this for ME]

Also T&L
 Before I was fighting these battles for the kids, telling H what they were saying (without embellishment); a year ago I did acknowledge that it was me fighting their battles; now I've told the kids that I can no longer do that.

I did the same thing for a while. I had to admit that after a while I wasn't strong enough to do it. But the kids were 15 and 18. My stand on that is :

Although they are old enough to speak for themselves . They have never been put in this position before and the operative word here is PUT. They did not ask for this to happen nor did they have any control so they are scared and insecure about saying anything to just about anybody.

When crazy ExH said he wanted D18 to meet the now exow she LOST it. Was calm with him and said maybe. But cried and threw herself and was adament with me that she not meet her.

 Could she have told  him? Maybe.... but she was so afraid he was just going to leave her in the dust and pick this piece of sh!t over her she couldn't bear to say it. So I had to.  I could not add to her agony of her fathers behavior due to the betrayal she felt by him.

D15 refused to speak to him or see him at all; so there was nothing to deal with for her.

[OliveOyl]

Great subject!  I think this is where my H is now.  H seemed to be just fine leaving everthing as it was, right where he left it while he lived in this out of control world.  He knows he has made a mess of his life, but I think me staying put allowed for him to stay in the fantasy.  Since divorcing has become real he has had to think about the past, the present and the future, as much as he can handle.  Now that he thinks I am moving on, the fantasy is starting to crack.  The reality of where he is is starting to shine through while he is still living in fantasy world.

[Trustandlove]

in this for the long haul,

I agree with you, and it is extremely well said that they have been PUT in this situation.  I know that when it counts I will still stick up for them, and will relate to H what is necessary.  I just did exactly that with my SIL, actually, explaining their feelings about an issue related to all this. 

What I was trying to do with telling my kids that was to encourage them to trust themselves, and to start the process of teaching them about this.  Mine, like what you say about yours, are scared -- very scared -- that anything they say will make things worse. 

I have the same thing -- they are polite to H, even polite to OW when they end up seeing her, and scream and cry to me.  One reason why I wanted them to talk for themselves is that for the past few years I HAVE been telling H what they say, think and feel, and that is now coming across as me just nagging. 

So at least one S has been expressing himself, not that H is listening. So kids and I end up  having conversations on selfish behaviour, free will, choices that have been made, and so on.   I've also said that I think he does love them, and in the end will respect them more for being honest.  That he may get angry or seem to move away further for a while, but in the end the reality may become more evident for him. 

It's a tightrope, isn't it?

Please, more comments on this general topic!

[crazyforhim]

Great thread! I really was wondering what brings this reality/fantasy world collide?
Seems like they are so far apart or H keeps it that way that how could these 2 worlds collide??
Thanks S&D for starting this thread!!
CFH 

[justasking]

IMO the MLCer will continue to fight for his fantasy world whilst he is in replay. That is where the run and avoid all reality. It is only as they awaken at the end of replay that their fantasy life and reality start to become an issue and start to move towards each other. Even so I think they continue to keep the two apart as best they can whilst they can still keep a foot in replay. Sometimes they prefer to stay in replay for fear of what is coming after their awakening starts. The fantasy is comfortable even if the OW is manipulative and vengeful the real world is full of the unknown and reckoning.

When they move forward into liminality and the downward spiral their energy for fighting the inevitable gets weaker and replay gets harder to continue and they eventually hit rock bottom. Only then when they hit rock bottom and ALL replay behaviours are finished do both worlds collide. From then on they are getting clearer and clearer visions of how the fantasy was just that and reality has to be faced. The reality is the guilt and deep sadness they feel for all the destruction they have left in their wake.

Just my thoughts.

xx

[crazyforhim]

Thanks JA,
That brings more clarity!

[Mitzpah]

With my h. deep in replay, this is just speculative thinking on my part...
Just Asking seems to have nailed it though
One of my fears is this:

Sometimes they prefer to stay in replay for fear of what is coming after their awakening starts.