[Mortesbride]

No Mort, people don't really have bipolar and NPD. What happens is that when in the manic phase, bipolars can mimic nascisism. From what you wrote your husband only seemed to have down/depressed phases, than be normal. No he definitely had what could be considered manic phases...

Also, NPD does not just show a few days a month or for a few hours. You are correct it is always there, progressively gets worse with age...they are incredibly good at hiding it for the most part, and I met him at 19. So is he NPD and it is just now getting to a point where it is outwardly visible to others and myself at a more advanced stage, or is he an unmediated bipolar? Or is he a guy who suffered with depressive episodes that is now having a MLC?! Who knows...

There may be contact points, but they are different things.

Things are similar but one cannot advise someone to stand for someone who will come out of it if the matter is bipolar, borderline, NPD. Of course you can't. But we can't know if it is MLC or something more sinister until the end right?! Unless someone manages to drag them in kicking and screaming for help. 

No one is perfect and people with mental illness deserve love and to be loved. But there is a certain level of crazy, outside of MLC, that is pretty obvious and not normal. Yes and this is highly subjective.

[Anjae]

NPD is far more obvious than bipolar, even at 19 or younger. I have never meet someone with true NPD that was able to hide it.

Age tends to made both mood and personality disorders worst unless people seek help and follow it.

If I had to guess, I would go with bipolar (or cyclothymia, milder illness) for your husband. Would not discart Major Depression, but there is the mania and technically, even if there has only been an episode of mania it is bipolar or cyclothymia.

Regardless, your husband may he having a MLC on top of whatever was already there. MCL would make the pre-existing condition worst. At least for the duration of MLC.

Of course you can't. But we can't know if it is MLC or something more sinister until the end right?! Unless someone manages to drag them in kicking and screaming for help. 

We can know if pre-existent signs existed or not. We can know if someone had depressed and manic episodes before MLC. That already indicates something more than MLC. Borderline is also too obvious to be missed. The crazy of borderline is crazy crazy. Impossible not to see it.

Normal is subjective, but there are behaviours that clearly are not normal. Manic is not normal, cutting is not normal (cutting is normal both in bipolar and borderline), hearing voices and doing what the voices say is not normal (it is schizophrenia), etc.

What does it mean for someone that has a pre-existing mental illness to have MLC? That the pre-existing mental illness will not go away. Will said mental illness be worst after MLC? It may. Or the person may realize they really need help. Hard to say because often people with mental illness never look for help.

The person will also be older when the crisis is over, the pre-existing mental illness, that either was untreated, or was being treated but during MLC was not, probably is worst. MLC lifestyle and stresses also don't help the previously existing mental illness.

Only you can decide if it makes sense to stand for someone who had previous issues and did not look for help before MLC.

Lets say on top of whatever was there your husband is having a MLC. Do you think he will look for help once MLC is over? Can you see yourself living with him again if he does not look for help once MLC is over?
 

[In the valley]

What does RCR stand for?

[Anjae]

What does RCR stand for?

Rollercoasterider, the woman who created Hero Spouse.

"Welcome to The Hero's Spouse
Is your spouse having a Midlife Crisis (MLC)? Is he or she depressed, cheating, talking about divorce, acting moody or angry? Do you want to learn how to deal with someone experiencing MLC?

This website is for the spouses of those experiencing a crisis of identity wherein the person often sees no alternative but to abandon his marriage. Though the identity crisis I focus on is the Midlife Crisis, crises of other life transitions may also apply.

Thank you for visiting The Hero's Spouse. I'm Kenda-Ruth—known as Rollercoasterider in our community forum. Though I recognize exceptions, I do not advocate divorce. I was a Stander. My husband and I have been reconciled and rebuilding since 2008." from: https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/

[OffRoad]

I've always likened what happened to my ex to BPD. Blaming everyone else? BPD.  Impulive behavior? BPD. Unclear or unstable self-image? BPD. Extreme emotional swings? BPD. Explosive anger? BPD. Unstable relationships? BPD. Chronic feelings of emptiness? BPD. Projection of their feelings onto others?BPD.

Might he have had BPD and hid it for years? Sure. Might andropause have brought it to the forefront? Why not? Anything is possible. All I remember for sure is that all of the techniques used to keep a person with BPD traits on an even keel worked well for my ex. But I could not keep that up forever. For those with a loved one with a mental illness who can sacrifice their own needs to maintain their loved one, my hat is off to you. I decided I did not want to walk on eggshells. I did not want to lose myself to his projection. I did not want to stand and be abused day after day, because a person who treats you with disrespect is abusing you, even if someone wants to pretend constant disrespect isn't abuse.

Mine didn’t want me or anything from me so I stepped aside. Does he have MLC or BPD or both? I don't know. Would I take him back? Don't know that yet, either, as he still hasn't crossed my line of no return. (OP or an unforgivable act).

Whatever your monster was or is, IMO it's less about would you take back what WAS than have they crossed whatever your line is, and would you entertain taking back what they ARE if they show up at your door.

[In the valley]

Ah!! Thanks! I was thinking some kind of personality disorder, makes much more sense now.

Another thought outside of MLC is the psychological effect of having an affair and leaving for the affair partner.  I think you have to project and blame the ex spouse simply to live with the guilt of your actions.  If your ex spouse isn't a horrible monster than you must be a pretty sh!ty person to break up a family and marriage and abandon your kids.  Instead of facing your own guilt and shame, you blame and project.  The real monster didn't start for me until after the start of the PA.

I know MLC is a little different but I'm sure basic psychological elements enter into it. 

[in it]

Probably
Update on the ex a-hole..monster still going strong taking it out on people he can't intimidate or control and tries to.Still doesn't like the word no. So it's time to throw a fit.
This is 5 years running folks no sign of burning out.

[Ready2Transform]

Many also do not have spouses who have been diagnosed with anything, even those whose spouses have issues. Others, like yourself, have a spouse diagnosed with bipolar. Even if I think he is in MCL and it got consufed with bipolar.

I wanted to believe that too, Anjae, when I first came here in 2012. Believe me. It soothed me greatly that there was some sort of predetermined assumption that fit beliefs I was comfortable with and interested in that stated this was all going to be like a bad dream and he would "wake up" and go back to normal if I could just hold ground for an extended amount of time.

But detachment over these years has allowed me to take objective view of my life with xH. There were episodes throughout. Most notably was the episode he had around 1997, when he was in his 20s. During that year he lost his apartment (even though he had a full time job plus military reserve service and no other bills), lost his full time job, threw himself completely into reenacting and started to live as his "persona" in his daily life (including a handlebar moustache and long dangly earrings, which weren't even punk rock for a guy in his 20s back then!), stopped bathing regularly, went pale in color to the point that it's very apparent in pictures with other people who are normally lighter than him in skin tone, and instead of seeking veterinary help when his cat was obviously dropping weight and having problems, he detached and let his cat ail to the point of needing to be euthanized (which itself wouldn't have happened had I not intervened).

He later went back to "normal" and didn't understand why he did those things, but they were still part of his life. I looked at it like he was "going through something" as well and didn't hold him accountable (though I did end our engagement during that time). Once he was "better," (and he truly was, by making life decisions that I really agreed with, cleaning up, staying employed again, etc) life went on. I had my own life, as we weren't really entangled in any way other than emotionally at that point, so as long as feelings were good, I was good to continue pursuing my life.

But it didn't last, and more depressive episodes came. More friends were run off. More "personas" developed. He had just never turned on ME. And that was the part I was focusing on. I loved him. He was my best friend, and I was a 'match' because I still had a lot to work on. But there is really no denying that from nature or nurture or a combo of both - my xH has some long standing problems that have always impacted his life and his identity. His prior major episode did not resolve them. I had hoped the MD, psychiatrist, and therapist working with him over 8 years ago would be the right team to get him where he needed to be. They were not, or at least, he did not give them the chance to be. I don't believe another discombobulation of his brain for a long period of time like this will be either. Or rather, I just accept that this is who he is:  a person who struggles with chemical imbalance and identity issues, no matter what they are called.

You and I had a MLC. We weren't diagnosed with anything - in my case I was briefly diagnosed with situational depression because of what has happened - and we are both out of our MLC.

I didn't seek a diagnosis for anything, but I am confident clinical depression would be a no brainer. I'm not surprised situational depression because of the BD and ensuing events. We are all likely PTSD sufferers, too. I would say you more than most due to the aggressive actions of MrJ. How could we all not be?

It is also impostan to say that pshychiatrists and psychologist often wrongly diagnosed people. Lets say, bipolar for borderline, or the other way round.

It is also important to say that an accurate bipolar diagnose can take up to ten years and often does.

It's loaded to assert that diagnoses, especially when coming from multiple sources, can't be trusted. But I am a skeptic by nature so I want to give that some validation. Lots of factors go into it, and we love our links, so here's a good one: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990547/

But we too have to look at ourselves here and say that if trained and experienced professionals can be wrong, so can strangers on the internet who are biased on their own experiences and beliefs. I'm not saying I don't resonate with RCR or even HB's soothing writings about the nature of midlife crisis. I think they both draw from their own experiences in an eloquent and useful way. At different times Rejoice Ministries, Dr. Joe Beam, Melanie Tonia Evans, even Chump Lady have been cathartic resources. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's Satan, a liminal affair, narcissistic abuse, or that I'm just a codependent idiot that needs to "kick him to the curb." I can only go with my gut that there are others along this journey who have seen my xH and have a strong opinion about the nature of what is happening with him. And I can use the rest to heal myself, of whatever has broken my heart and taken over my brain. It's just not always as simple and predictable as we'd like it to be. Even post-crisis, I am the same, but not. This is all clearly still a big part of my identity now, whatever it is.

And to support the "Monster" of this thread, my xH has again retreated after 8 months of solid contact. He screwed up what we were working toward together to get the settlement finished, so back to square one there. I truly believe he was just ramped up and needed a target since OW and he were living separately for a time. It is relatable to both the MLC canon and bipolar mania. And for me - annoyance!

[Anjae]

Of course we can be wrong. That is why I wrote even trained professionals like psychiatrist and psychologists can be, and often are, wrong. Not so much with depression, but with mentall illness. They may, however, not spot depression or make a depression diagnose without looking for factors that can cause it, thyroid for example.

Here we can only go by what HS members write. However, either we believe MLC exists or we don't. Even if our spouse may not be in MLC. Or may be on MLC on top of something else. Otherwise there is no point to HS and to our years long effort to have MLC being more acceptable and visible. We know MLCers go back to normal - not all, of course, even because some of those who do not may be gaving either something else, or something else on top of MLC.

You, I, all HS members that have a MLC went back to normal. People we know in real life went back to normal, the spouses of those in reconnection are going back to normal and the spouses of those reconciled went back to normal.

We also know that does not happen with other mental illness, aside from some types of depression.

We know MLC has a pattern. We know MLCers are depressed, some, like Mr J, even said so themselves early on.

Situational depression makes a lot of sense when it comes to a LBS. Calamity was also diagnose with situational depression by then.

No idea why your husband had that strange phase in his 20's. From what I recall, he was not diagnose with anything at the time. It may had been a breakdown/burnout that caused those strange actions, it could had been some brain issues, it could a mental illness.

It is relatable to both the MLC canon and bipolar mania. And for me - annoyance!

It is. And since MLC mimics bipolar, who knows what really is going on.

[Not Applicable]

It's important to note though that 0% percent of people here have a spouse who has been "diagnosed" MLC, since it is not recognized globally as anything other than an existential crisis. And since this site is made up completely of people bringing their own personal experiences and perceptions to the table, not a regulated group of vetted experts trained specifically in an unbiased way about MLC, we are free to support anyone who needs it.

I completely agree. I can only speak from my experience and I feel somewhat confident that my H is suffering from SOMETHING that SOME other LBS's spouses on here are also suffering from. But I also feel somewhat confident that not everyone's spouse on here is suffering from whatever it is that my H has. I do not believe it is something that has a clinically recognized name but I think with attention from researchers it would be classified as a specific syndrome, but there simply has been no such research.

However, I think the umbrella term we use on here, "MLC" has to refer to multiple syndromes. Some may be diseases already known, e.g. NPD, BPD, etc. Some may be one or even more as yet un-named syndromes, which could be MLC-1, MLC-2 etc.

I don't want to say, "MY H has MLC and yours doesn't" but I do have to admit that IF my H has MLC, there are definitely some on here whose spouses DON'T have MLC because their spouses are simply acting very very differently from my own.

I would say my H is suffering from whatever it is that HB describes because what she describes fits my H almost to a T.

However, I will say this about RCR and HB. As much as they really do offer a lot of help with their articles, I am not sure how far they would advance the possibility of there being serious medical research done to get to the bottom of what is going on with our spouses. Let's be honest, HB believes everything she knows was imparted on her directly by God speaking to her, and RCR has a fondness for poetry and ancient Greek mythology and the like. This is hardly the dry clinical description one needs to get medical scientists to take it seriously. In fact, in that regard, their descriptions being so prominent in what is available on the internet might do more harm than good.