[Mamma Bear]

  JA Perfect!

[HeartsBlessing]

Wow HB,

Great post but I REALLY think you misunderstood me on a couple things.  First off, I never meant to imply any kind of conflict whatsoever and was just pointing out how great it was having so many leaders on this thread.  As far as Hogan and Flair. (spoiler alert) wrestling is fake so I see that like a movie with two major stars.  Again, I think you completely misunderstood me.

Secondly, I never said that the hormonal part came from you.  Even though I'm typing this in my phone, I don't understand how you read it that way.  I was just saying I don't know of major childhood issues in my W, but DGU already pointed out what should have been obvious to me

So, peace to everyone and let's move along!!

Oh, NO you don't get out of it just like that, my fine feathered friend, LOL!!!   
Actually, NO, Thundarr, I didn't "misunderstand" at all, what you posted; I read EXACTLY what you said, and copied the quote as it STOOD when you wrote it.......you'll see what happens when you type on your phone, and don't quite get it right, LOL!!!

You'd better get home and look at your  home computer, Thundarr on a FULL screen, then, LOL...you'll see why I wrote what I did.

For what it's worth, I'm actually glad I went back and copied those posts, it saves me a whole lot of trouble of typing them over again, LOL!!!

In regards to the language filter/foul language, I meant what I said.  I don't own this board, but I was here at its inception/birth, nearly two years ago, right along with Old Pilot, and RCR who actually does own the board, for what it's worth.   It's been my home for that long, and the comment I made was in the lines of respecting one's home...that's all.

I respect everybody else's "homes"...so, I was just sayin' 

I am also bearing in mind that I'm sitting here in a thread with a whole LOT of men from LT at the moment, and while I have the greatest respect for ALL of you guys who have gone through what you all have thus far, I also keep  in mind, that some may get extremely angry at what I have to say, too...and I am well prepared to take a great deal of heat, if necessary.

I honestly do care, and because I care, I'm blunt to a fault; as some of the guys that know me well can tell you.

I'm not worried so much for my own "misunderstanding" as everyone else's, as if I don't correct what I know I didn't say; I am the ONE who will be misunderstood, NOT you, Thundarr.


Dude, I have no worries here, for what it's worth; but I think you need bigger eyes and smaller fingers if you're going to type on your phone.

Have a good one.

[HeartsBlessing]

Cheers to all the LifeTwo buddies...and my HS LBS brothers and sisters.  Thanks Thundarr for starting this up and good to see (sorry for the sitches of course) some of you jumping on board here.   Dang man, you ruined my total image of wrestling.  Now I feel like a kid who just found out that the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause is not real.  Real downer dude...LOL.

Hello, Moc, LOL!!!

I laughed so hard I nearly fell out of my chair when I read this from you about Thundarr having blown your image of wrestling...

I'm sorry we all meet under these circumstances; honestly, I've give anything if every situation came out whole, healed, and very blessed, honestly, most of them do; depending upon the attitude attained within.

You know, I'm not one to push religion, honestly, but you will hear me speak of the Lord many times;  I'm a believer who believes but that does NOT "color" what I see in people.   

People are people, regardless, and again, because I care, I may sound a little harsh at times, but at the same time, I understand, even if it's from a female point of view what you're going through...and I imagine a lot of you are surprised to read various similarities between male and female behaviors within the crisis.

Anyway, I had the experience that He didn't wait until we came through to bless us, we were blessed throughout; and things could have always been much worse than they were.

HB, can't wait to hear your 2x4s for us as I know we sometimes all need them.  Your words ran true to me regarding STP and I forget that reconciliation is an agreement verbal and with action that true mending is occurring.  In your opinion is this true for both male LBS and female LBS?

I've seen it on BOTH sides of the equation before; so, yes, it would be true with BOTH male and female LBS'.

Because change is called from by both sides, it would take the LBS at times, to do what's needed to "help" the MLC spouse forward into the "new marriage" that will come afterward.   BUT, if one is not willing to take ownership, of their problems, total reconciliation that leads into this new marriage will be pushed back, held up, or won't happen until one or the other moves forward into what they're supposed to do.

Now, on that last, I'm usually disagreed with on that; but hey, I've seen this "strange connection" happen in my own case before; and I saw it in other's too, long ago. 

I won't sit here and tell it doesn't happen for others, too....true change, in order to happen, must be orchestrated by one to influence the other, and bring about change desired...it might not be change you would exactly want, but you must get past the fear of "losing" your spouse.   

I can tell you from experience, when my husband headed into the tunnel for the FIRST time, I LOST him COMPLETELY...and didn't 'regain' this "new man" until later, when it was HE who decided to choose ME.

I had already been prepared for this long before....well, in the second bout of crisis, I had ALREADY been chosen, and he wasn't going anywhere, therefore, I had NOTHING to fear, and all the stops got pulled on my part that second time.   It all worked out once again; we're still together, and I saw truly what I KNEW I was supposed to have seen so long ago in my husband; it just took longer than it would have IF he'd done what He was supposed to have done the FIRST time...

I am wondering as when you see comments of true reconciliation via this board mostly that it seems the male LBS is overwhelmingly sorry, remorseful, apologetic, willing to do anything to obtain trust.  As I know that my wife is probably closer to the reconnection (and no, I truly don't watch to see what stage she is in) and knowing her all these years, my lovely wife has RARELY EVER apologized for ANYTHING.  She herself (along with her father and brother) will tell you that it makes you look weak, no credibility.  I have probably heard under a handful of times her say "I am sorry for blah blah blah" and I felt genuine remorse coming from her.  Of course this is YEARS after the incident and I have completely forgotten and gotten over the hurt.  I can assume this will be the same once I let go of it all.  Problem is...the MLCer lives with me which makes me fuel for her depression.

Don't allow her to make you the "fuel" for her depression; encourage her, validate her, but allow HER to navigate on her own, and if she even starts in on you, let her know that you won't tolerate disrespect.  Just because she's depressed does NOT mean it's YOUR fault; I promise you it is NOT.

Sometimes depression brings out spew and confusion; but you don't have to sit and listen to it, most especially if it becomes abusive toward you....I walked out of the room more than once before I would allow him to be emotionally abusive toward me.   I know it's hard to bear in mind that projection is something to watch out for, as they feel, they assume YOU feel...but only YOU would know how you feel.

Just keep giving her space to process herself, and just be there when/if she needs you to talk; and they will want to talk sometimes...even if what you hear won't make it sense to you, it WILL to her. 

My husband was once one that never apologized for anything he did; for what was the same kind of reason; with added arrogance, and the feeling that HE never did ANYTHING wrong(and this attitude was prevalent during the first half of his crisis).   But I can tell you this; at a right time, I learned to set boundaries that were designed to hold him accountable for his actions toward me; and because he did still have feelings toward me, and didn't want to lose his marriage; he DID breakdown totally, and given more time, he made quite a few changes in that area; and I did see him change in a miraculous way; as his guilt, shame and issues worked on him.

I got a much better man out of this, but hey, I changed, too....we grew up together, and are still growing as  we speak.

MLC'ers will ALL  eventually will reach this "broken" place within themselves, (unless they get stuck somewhere)some on their own, but some will have to be pushed because change is far scarier, than staying the same...and you know after all that's happened, there's too much muddy water gone under the bridge to go backward into what once was.

Anyways, I am still wearing the crisis and figuring out more each day from reading here, my own journey and how I got to be who I am.  I have to figure out what parts of those need to change, and what parts of those I am content with.

Sounds to me like you're doing well for now, and processing yourself as you should be, Sir.  Once you reach the point of knowing what needs change within yourself, you'll get this figured out, THEN, you'll get to the point of learning your wife from several aspects you never thought of; and after that, you'll see the marriage in a light you'd never seen it in before, and the ways the two of you related as a couple that actually one person CAN change when they change themselves to bring about change in the other person.

It's a long, hard journey, but you can do this; time, is indeed, given as a gift to use wisely...and there is much to learn, yet, still, time is what you have.  

Peace and praying for all MLCers and especially LBSers!

Prayers and peace for you, too, MOC.

Take care,
HB

[WarriorPriestess]

Good job telling it like it is HB.  True that!

[rover77]

here I is

[HeartsBlessing]

DGU, very good points from the support of the articles today!

    I would love to see HB and RCR and OP and Stayed and Stayed's H and DGU all in the Capital Rotunda Testifying to Congress why there are so many families broken apart by depression at mid life.
    Those fat cat senators and congressmen and women would be like 
       They'd have to sit in that hot seat with big fuzzy microphones.
      Exhibit A and Chart B could show foreclosures caused and food stamps and heart attacks from stress and domestic violence from jealous rages etc etc  Hoola Hoops and motorcycles and empty retirement funds! No end in sight.
     I love reading what HB writes. It's amazing. Maybe bc I love science and how things work. When it comes to the human brain and chemicals and behaviors Yikes!

Mamma, I'd bet you'd like to sit in on a session like that!!  LOL!!!   

Seriously, though, I've seen numerous documentaries that say MLC is NOT real, nor what people think it is.    Every time I see something like that, I get quite irate; because considering what I've seen, experienced, and guided numerous people through, I KNOW it's real enough.

It seems people have to actually LIVE THROUGH one in order to put validity to it...I expect this will be an ongoing argument long after everyone else is gone. 

I actually wouldn't mind of the MLCer comes back and has to work on themselves, but are committed to being a spouse....  that's what marriage is about, ups and downs but they don't just give up.

Many MLCers (but not all) come home before the journey ends. They complete their journey at home with their family as others on here testify.

Often they are unable to commit to the marriage on their return as recconnection is just beginning and to recommit to the marriage they have to get to the end of the true withdrawal stage and many return at the end of replay.

To believe that the MLC spouse just gives up on the marriage over simplifies what is happening. MLC has nothing to do with giving up but of moving forward to find themselves and deal with childhood issues. They truly believe that leaving the marriage will help them be happy. Of course we know different.

That is why it is so important to totally understand the process and let your MLCer go. Also if you don't believe you have a journey to complete IMO you are letting a great opportunity pass you by. Certainly I have learnt so much since my H left I would never have learnt before BD and I am grateful for that and so will H be when he returns home. And if he doesn't I am ok.

If hearing the words of commitment are what you truly want when they turn for home IMO you are likely to fail to rebuild a relationship for the future as the door will remain closed due to parameters being identified for a return and the MLC will turn away

JA, GREAT points here!   As you learn, you continue to understand, and this is what it's all about.

Good job telling it like it is HB.  True that!

LOL, WP, thanks.    I don't mean to get so wound up at times, but often I do, and write of what I know, and have experienced over time. 

I will get OFF my own soapbox and allow some more room here for others experiences. 

For what it's worth, a very warm welcome to all of you from LifeTwo!

I hope you will all find what you need within the archives, and other places here, and we will all help you in the best way we can.

Love to all of you from the whole gang here at The Hero's Spouse.  We are ALL in this together, and each one has a valuable contribution to make; as we are all learning and keep learning together.

Take care all.

Later!

[Rider]

Holy Sh*t!  It's the Dawg!!

Rover baby.  Welcome on over.

To one and all. This is a very good man. And committed to the cause and concept of family.

So much so it is becoming his career.

Rider

[Rider]

Hello HeartsBlessings ...

We are not yet acquainted, yet your notable good reputation is known far and wide.

In this regard, I seek your feedback on a concept that his been bothering me ever since I joined LT, with this conundrum continuing here on HS.  It is this ...

It would seem to me that many, if not the large majority of R examples I've seen have occurred with in-home MLC'ers. Regardless of their severity, for some reason they do not seem capable (emotionally, financially, whatever) to leave.

The next demographic group I've observed to have had R success is by far women LBS's whose H's have moved out, mostly never filed or completed their D, and after sometimes years, reconnection, then rebuilding, and finally R occurs.  I've yet to see any significant evidence of long term abandonment by women MLC'ers resulting in R with LBS H's; especially once the D is finalized.

Now there has been debate and speculation that men tend to move on more quickly. Some speculate they are not as often burdened by the lion's share child custody.  Others speculate that men are really more committed to the R, while women tend to emotionally attach to the next OM and are less likely to turn back. Many also say that the LBS men have simply moved on to a new women, thus closing the chance for R.  Finally, they say the majority of posters tend to be LBS women, and therefore the R success stories are skewed due to the over proportionate representation on sites like this.  Probably all are correct.

Here's my dilemma, and all due respect in that I've only been at this 13 months since BD ... If the chances for LBS men that have been abandoned by their W's has the worst chance of R, then this knowledge is important for many of us in deciding in what manner to move on with our lives (standing, file and complete D, ultimately find a new person and start a new life). 

Again, duly respectful, your experiences and many other sages in your position seemed skewed by your experiences with an in-home MLC'er.  Believe me, having them move out and move on has a different taste and feel of finality to it. And it is very hard to ignore past  a year, let alone 2, 3, or 4 years. Particularly when paired with inexcusable replay behavior.

In my position, I've got custody of the children. Our D is delayed for business reasons, but should be completed later this year. Since she has been generally very kind and easy to get along with, I've take a wait and see attitude until the D is done, particularly as I don't want to rock the boat in an already disadvantageous position as the primary wage earner with a +20 year SAHM.  Very bad position to be in financially.  However, I do want to be realistic about my odds of success and this will factor heavily in how I detach, and how will be my vision of my future (dating, etc.).  I have no religious doctrine to adhere to regarding marriage. No covenant for life concept coloring my vision. I simply loved my W, but must know when to let that go forever.  Maybe that time is now. Maybe not.

Ultimately, I've always said I'd consider a R overture from my W at any point (sooner or much, much later), if I am still available. If not, then not. I will not close the door all the way, unless the OM situation becomes in some way intolerable.

So, to summarize ... in-home woman MLC'er v. long term runway woman MLCer?    My guess is that the odds of success are seriously stacked against the latter. 

Thanks for listening and caring for us orphan boys from LT.

Peace to you HB.   

Rider   

[Mitzpah]

Hi All, I asked myself recently 'what's changed in me?'  Wondering why I felt so much more at ease.   It is acceptance. I now view OW as more of a fixture in the apt H ran to in an effort to get away from me. My mouth and body language were too much for someone having an identity crisis.
    I can't even relate to 'not knowing what I want' never mind 'not knowing who I am'
    They'll figure it out. If we're quiet enough so they can think of it.

I know this is a little late in this thread but I SO agree with you Mamma Bear!! Exactly!

[Dontgiveup]

It would seem to me that many, if not the large majority of R examples I've seen have occurred with in-home MLC'ers. Regardless of their severity, for some reason they do not seem capable (emotionally, financially, whatever) to leave.

Most MLCers leave.  Sometimes the LBS moves out, sometimes the MLCer, but physical separation occurs in the high majority of MLC cases.  RCR has written 2 or 3 blogs about this as well.  Normally I would link them for you but I think the blogs are currently unavailable.

Now there has been debate and speculation that men tend to move on more quickly. Some speculate they are not as often burdened by the lion's share child custody.  Others speculate that men are really more committed to the R, while women tend to emotionally attach to the next OM and are less likely to turn back. Many also say that the LBS men have simply moved on to a new women, thus closing the chance for R.  Finally, they say the majority of posters tend to be LBS women, and therefore the R success stories are skewed due to the over proportionate representation on sites like this.  Probably all are correct.

Here' some insight from RCR's article Stories and Human Behavior.  It is not uncommon for the LBS to move on, regardless of whether they are male or female.  This website is to help people gain a true understanding of MLC.  When the LBS can gain an understanding of what is happening to the MLCer, it can be very beneficial to Standing.

MLC is a journey of self-discovery and change. The person who comes through the MLC tunnel may be vastly different than the person who entered the tunnel and different than the possibly multiple personalities in the tunnel. How your MLCer is now is not indicative of who he might become. An MLCer may become stuck, but those are the rare cases. More common is for a person to regret their actions--often when they are too late because the spouse has closed the opportunity for marital reconciliation.

Here's my dilemma, and all due respect in that I've only been at this 13 months since BD ... If the chances for LBS men that have been abandoned by their W's has the worst chance of R, then this knowledge is important for many of us in deciding in what manner to move on with our lives (standing, file and complete D, ultimately find a new person and start a new life).

I am a male LBS.  I am 25 months post bomb drop.  I am 19 months post divorce.  I don't know if my chances of reconciliation are better or worse than another situation.  I think reconciliation is possible in any of our situations.  Most MLCers make it through their crisis.  If that is true.....then any situation has reconciliation possibilities.  I believe understanding and accepting the process of MLC is a very important part of Standing.   

Believe me, having them move out and move on has a different taste and feel of finality to it. And it is very hard to ignore past  a year, let alone 2, 3, or 4 years. Particularly when paired with inexcusable replay behavior.

I understand what moving out is.  What do you mean by moving on?  All MLCers say and have "moving on" behaviors.  But if you understand that MLC is a phase of life.....part of the maturation process.....then it might help you to understand that the "moving on" that the MLCer does is rarely permanent.

I am over 2 years post bomb drop, and I am divorced.  My situation does not have a feeling of finality to it.  I would encourage you to also read about contact levels.  I have a Boomerang, which is common for an MLCer.

As far as inexcusable replay behavior.....again understanding the process and typical behaviors of MLC will help you with this.  I will highly highly encourage you to read every one of RCR's articles on this website.

However, I do want to be realistic about my odds of success and this will factor heavily in how I detach, and how will be my vision of my future (dating, etc.).  I have no religious doctrine to adhere to regarding marriage. No covenant for life concept coloring my vision. I simply loved my W, but must know when to let that go forever.  Maybe that time is now. Maybe not.

Detaching is essential or her inexcusable behavior could tear you apart.  I think it's only proper of me to say that I do adhere to a belief system regarding marriage.....the Christian belief system.....which is the foundation of this website, though certainly all are welcome regardless of belief system.