[hopingfourbetter]

Ok HB,
  I have to say that one thing that has really been bothering is going through this process without resolving my issues, after reading on here from others that we need to fix or heal within ourselves. How do we know we have healed enough to move on? I feel that we are constantly working on ourselves  and I do not think that it stops. Then the things that I have worked through for my W AND I are small things in the big picture I have worked on things that I needed to do for my W or me. I do not feel a whole lot different than I did,I felt I was always a good man with a few flaws, I have always been a good honest man for the most part. I have this image of being a good honest man to my peers and and associates. I never understood why they felt that way. But I accept it. My W says that her family would never think that I could do anything wrong and that I know bothers her.

  You have my mind working overtime on what else I need to do to fix what needs to be fixed, Agh.   Hfb

   

[Thundarr]

HFB,

I truly envy you and I hope you one day realize how fortunate you are.  I think the fact that your W has stayed with you and is working through this is proof positive that her love for you is strong and will endure all that you two will face.  I think you will do the same, my friend, as your love for her is evident in all of your posts.

For me, it's different.  My W's love for me was not enough for her to stay and I see now that there is little hope of her "finding" enough love for me to come home again some day.  I wish it could have been different, and if I had listened to her more over the years and been more honest with myself about my own faults and worked to correct them things may be different for me right now as she may still be home.  But, now it's too late and something that was great is gone and unlikely ever to return.  I'm glad you haven't and aren't making the mistakes I did and I hope and pray your ending is a happy one.  I will pray for you, my friend.

[WarriorPriestess]

You've been doing very well, HFB over the past year; and honestly, the slower the process, the more likely it will complete fully.

There is danger in coming through the tunnel too fast at warp speed....ALL issues, and the aspects surrounding each issue must be faced, worked through, settled, and healed within before the crisis can be termed as "past". 

As long as there are issues, the crisis continues; that's just the way it works  It demands completion; plus change, growth and becoming within both people.

This certainly puts a positive spin, at least in my mind, on the length of time my H is taking.  I remember reading something similar in one of RCR's articles as well.  Thanks HB! 

[hopingfourbetter]

Hey Thundarr,
  If you really must know I was envious of you and your day yesterday, I hate to burst your thought but your wife is not going to go to far away. I sense things will work there way out, there is no doubt she is seeing change in you. A month ago you were a bitter angry man, you have done a complete 180. the good thing is now you can see past the anger and really try to work on you, just do it. I personally think in your case that absence will help for you two. Only time will tell, my prayers are with you brother. Hfb

[Dontgiveup]

You have my mind working overtime on what else I need to do to fix what needs to be fixed, Agh.   Hfb

I would encourage you not to dwell on this.  It is my opinion that sometimes we can take the need to fix ourselves or work on ourselves overboard.  There are some LBS who begin to worry that it is their flaws that led to their spouse's MLC.....and I don't agree with that.

This is from RCR's article "Why Stand?" and I think it gives good insight.

Your spouse's affair and MLC are not your fault, but you were not perfect and can always find place for growth and improvement.

and from RCR's article Midlife Crisis Takes Time

This crisis is not your fault; it would have happened regardless of your behaviour.

[hopingfourbetter]

DGU,
It is hard when we read this is what needs to be done, but I will agree with you, I will take it slow. Hfb

[rover77]

Thundarr...you cannot blame yourself for what she is doing..period...if you must ..take yourself out of the equation and look at how she has treated your kids ..is that ok ? is that their doing ?..no..

[Thundarr]

I am very thankful for all of your help and your wisdom in this is far greater than mine.  DGU is part Vulcan if you ask me.  I totally agree that we should not stress on working in ourselves as that implies fault on our part.  Taking time to focus on ourselves takes our focus off the MLCer and that is the greatest benefit as DGU pointed out in a previous thread. 

I do not blame myself for her crisis or actions.  I only said that had her love for me been stronger or had I handled her early crisis differently then she may have never moved out.  I stand behind that even now but maintain that her battle is her own.  I know my life is less chaotic and I am very thankful for yesterday.  I think any of us would give all to have things back to normal if only for a few hours and I hope another day comes.  I knew there would be a price, as there always is.

[HeartsBlessing]

Ok HB,
  I have to say that one thing that has really been bothering is going through this process without resolving my issues, after reading on here from others that we need to fix or heal within ourselves. How do we know we have healed enough to move on? I feel that we are constantly working on ourselves  and I do not think that it stops.

You're absolutely right working on yourself is a never ending process, but it's an individual type process, and you will know when you are healed enough to move forward.

Then the things that I have worked through for my W AND I are small things in the big picture I have worked on things that I needed to do for my W or me. I do not feel a whole lot different than I did,I felt I was always a good man with a few flaws, I have always been a good honest man for the most part. I have this image of being a good honest man to my peers and and associates. I never understood why they felt that way. But I accept it. My W says that her family would never think that I could do anything wrong and that I know bothers her.

I was always a good person, HFB, but I took the time to figure out what it was within myself that needed growth and improvement; and I worked on it.   None of us are perfect, but only you would know what needs additional work within.

Accepting yourself, flaws and all is one of the important parts of this journey within.

The growth and change that results from that growth is for YOU, not anyone else.   Your wife is changing for herself, and while you don't have to accept the changes she is making, I honestly suggest you accept her for what she is, not for what you would want her to be.

They don't come out of this the same, as I well know,but then, I didn't come out of this the same, either, and I'm glad of it.   My husband came out changed, better for the experience; and none of the "old patterns" of relating came out with us...we both became new and improved people as a result.

Very little of the "old" remained; just the core personality aspects within us both that didn't hurt anything.  For example, my husband is a quiet soul, whereas I'm more outgoing, and like to talk.

One of the most important things that changed within him was the fact that he doesn't allow people to run him over anymore; if someone does something he doesn't like, they will know about it.   He learned to set good boundaries, and he learned "self care" in a way he'd never known before.
He's no longer a "people pleaser", nor does he try to pressure, control, nor manipulate me.  He will give me advice if I ask, but he no longer tries to fit me in a box of his own creation, nor does he try to "fix" my problems; he listens more than he did before.   He doesn't see me as an extension of him like he did before his crisis.

He will not allow anyone to mistreat me; he will step in and protect me in that way(he didn't before, I was always on my own).

He's become a real husband in a way that I had to adjust to....and his love for me is even different, I have value to him; I'm not just someone he puts on a shelf, and brings down when it's "convenient" for him.

We became sure of each other in a way that was not possible before; and we are connected much differently than before the crisis happened...not to mention we no longer have power struggles, neither of us is "above" the other, we are true equals in a marriage that is very well balanced.

I recognize my husband clearly as my "Head of Household" just as the Bible speaks of, and he has truly become the biblical husband that God speaks of in His Word.  I'm his "helpmeet", but he's not "above" me in that aspect.

We render due benevolence to each other as we are supposed to; and this was also a positive change.   I paint a true picture of how things are now, and though, it was a long road to get there, it was worth the journey.

Oh, and for what it's worth, we do argue sometimes, but you don't live with someone and not argue with them; it's HOW you argue that makes a whole lot of difference; and we fight fairly, and compromise, when it's needed.

We continue to change and grow within the safety of our relationship, but that is a given, considering the door was opened by the crisis that woke us both up to something that will never end; and that is our continuing to grow, change, become and mature.

The most important aspect of all is the fact that God still works within our marriage, and I put Him FIRST above all things. I cannot expect Him to be the "Spiritual Head of Household" if I were to put Him in a box, and only take Him out when I need Him....that would not be right of me.

He does continue to work within my husband as He sees fit; He also continues to work within me, and He watches out after both of us.

You've changed a great deal, HFB, and don't realize it, and more change will come for you both as time goes on.

But change is not a bad thing, in fact, it's all good, and as time goes on, the both of you will continue to grow, even past the crisis at hand.

You have my mind working overtime on what else I need to do to fix what needs to be fixed, Agh.   Hfb

Again, only YOU would know what's left to work on for yourself; and believe me, you will KNOW when you've gotten it all for yourself.


What your wife did to respond/react to the problems within the marriage is NOT your fault, not at all.  She could have opened her mouth and talked about it, but she didn't; she chose a path that led to more trouble than it would have been IF she'd just talked about it.

But would you have understood?  Probably not, as up until the bomb drop, ALL of us thought things were just fine, when they actually weren't.

I wasn't even told directly there was a problem that needed my attention..it was not until I began my own journey to wholeness and healing that I began to really understand that change, growth, and becoming were needed within myself in order to help him grow.

While you don't exactly dwell on it, you don't hide from it, either; putting one's head in the sand and hoping it will all blow over or go away won't work.

So, you learn to face it head on, make the changes and growth that are sufficient for yourself, and leave your MLC spouse to their own devices, as they must take this same journey, only at a different time.

It doesn't matter what you did going into this crisis; it would have happened, regardless of what you'd done/didn't do, as the basis for the crisis lies within the Transition/MLC'er....but what you do AFTER you figure out what's happened will make all the difference going forward.

You fix yourself, and once you fix yourself, bringing about change within you, this will trigger change within the MLC'er in a positive way, as you'll see clearly what is wrong within them.  As you change, you will see change in them, as what one person does affects the other.

Going back into "old" patterns of relating will not work because these will trigger another crisis down the road...that's why I say, you are the ONLY one who KNOWS what needs to be fixed within yourself in order to trigger true change within your MLC spouse...and each person is different in this journey.

MLC extracts a change from BOTH people, not just one.

I hope this further helps.

[HeartsBlessing]

OK Thundarr,

I am very thankful for all of your help and your wisdom in this is far greater than mine.  DGU is part Vulcan if you ask me.  I totally agree that we should not stress on working in ourselves as that implies fault on our part.  Taking time to focus on ourselves takes our focus off the MLCer and that is the greatest benefit as DGU pointed out in a previous thread.

There is always STRESS involved when working on yourself; there is a great deal of work you must do for yourself.   

I knew it wasn't my fault; but at the same time, I had various memories come back of people who had tried to teach me the lessons of life LONG before his crisis, but I didn't listen; partly because I didn't understand, and partly because I was a stubborn woman who thought she knew better.

And even as I fought the beginning of my own journey, I thought that if I had to work on me, then I had caused his crisis, when I did NOT cause anything....my ongoing question was "WHY do I have to work on ME, when it was HIM that did so wrong?"

Well, as I found out, change has to start somewhere, and it might as well be within me in order to hopefully "trigger" change in him.

Do you have any clue of the fear I dealt with as I began to work on myself, saw the areas within myself that needed change, growth, improvement so I could become what God meant for me to be?

Of course not; you weren't ME....somewhere within my journey I came to know that it was possible my husband might NOT accept what I would become once I got even part of the way through; and that SCARED me beyond belief.

But, I bravely worked my way forward anyway; this was for ME, not him...and I knew if I didn't complete this journey, I would take the same problems I had within forward, and face this again in one aspect or another.

I had to learn that true change started within me, and if he accepted what I became, that was great, if not, I had to learn to gracefully accept that he might decide to walk away; and find someone who would put up with the aspects in him that might be resistant to change, growth, and becoming within himself.

Change is for OURSELVES, NOT for the MLC'er; and if we don't change, grow, and become, we will stay in a rut of our own making; and you can be sure you'll take these problems forward into another bout of crisis.

I did NOT like change at all then; change to me was scary, unknown, and it seemed that I would never be able to figure it all out....but I did; and I learned to like this kind of change for myself; as my own changes DID bring about changes in him.   He fought them at first, and for awhile I thought I might lose him.

Fortunately, he did begin to accept me as I continued to change, and he did change in response; this was a hard battle to overcome; as even I faced various aspects within myself that called for change, growth, becoming, and most importantly, I had to forgive myself for being human, and learn to move forward within the "new" person that was working her way through.

The Lord showed me these things as I worked my way through the basic, the intermediate, and the advanced aspects of the LBS journey.

He also guided me through various stages of growth; teaching me various aspects, and I documented these as they occurred on DB back in 2002.  They took the form of the Sermons I wrote back in the day.

The work on ourselves NEEDS to be done; and it brings on its own brand of stress within ourselves.

Change, growth, and becoming is NEVER stress free, but this stress CAN be channeled into positive growth, which releases a great deal of stress once you begin to relate in ways that are easier because you begin allowing people to be themselves, while you learn to be your own person.

I never realized how much stress I actually stayed under trying to please Tom, d!ck and Harry; until I stopped trying to please others, gave when I wanted to give, and just learned to take care of and please myself.

I learned to keep out the bad, and let in the good; and in that process, released another aspect of stress within me, as well.

I also learned that I did NOT have to do anything I did NOT want to do; and that even made things easier on me, as I wasn't stretched thin any more.

I lost a lot of "friends" during that time, but it wasn't a loss of any kind; for the first time in my life, I realized I was being "used", and this is not a good way to live.

I spend a great deal of time alone, and I'm fine with that, as I know I don't have to have companionship to survive on my own.

I am who I am, and what I became; and this becoming continues in various aspects...once the straightforward issues are faced, resolved, and healed, it then becomes all about the aspects, as you continue your own self improvement for the rest of your life.

As we become older, we learn more, grow in various other ways, mature in still others; you finish in one aspect, begin another; and it's ongoing...and if you stop growing, well, you're dead by that time.

Food for thought.

I do not blame myself for her crisis or actions.  I only said that had her love for me been stronger or had I handled her early crisis differently then she may have never moved out.  I stand behind that even now but maintain that her battle is her own.  I know my life is less chaotic and I am very thankful for yesterday.  I think any of us would give all to have things back to normal if only for a few hours and I hope another day comes.  I knew there would be a price, as there always is.

For what it's worth, what's done is done; and as far as her love for you being stronger, well NO MLC'er even KNOWS what love is all about.

Thundarr, I nearly "lost" my husband during the first two years of his crisis, and I didn't know that until later on, as the Lord enlightened me.   

As my husband was different, his love for me was completely gone for that time, buried deep, and he'd even purged me from his mind for a time....I didn't even exist for him until certain moments of clarity that brought me back to his attention for a short period of time.

If it had not been for the Lord, who kept the small flame of my husband's love in existence within his heart, and somehow prevented him from purging me completely from his heart, I would not be married now, and I know this.

God is more than able to work within people's hearts, even though He will NOT tamper with people's minds.

My husband spoke when he broke of having very little love for me during that first two years, not to mention NO respect for me at all.  I was there, taken for granted, in his way at times, and his love just wasn't there for me.

He said that he knew I had always been there for him; but his feelings had, indeed, changed for me, in a negative way. 

His space was gotten from his job, where he was in and out of the house; and I was "out of sight, out of mind" during that time.

He said that when I turned my back on him late that second year, changed my behavior toward him, and refused to allow him to disrespect me anymore it started working on him, and he figured if he didn't get his crap together, he was going to lose me.

This was the awakening he had; but it still took time before I knew he was waking up to himself.

Now, the Lord showed me He was adding love to my husband's heart, as what is within the heart, the mind will follow; and He instructed me to pray for Him to work within his heart.

First loves never die they say; but I'm here to tell you, the Lord did His part in helping me; not only at that time, but in the times going forward.

I never thought of getting someone else, dating or any of those kinds of aspects; when one is married; they are MARRIED, and the Lord would not have been pleased with me if I'd even allowed my thoughts to go down that path, as it would have been a wrong kind of path.

I always knew how the Lord works...it is HIS way or none at all.  He encouraged me to stand, but He did NOT make me; He reminded me many times that this was MY decision, but also kept His Promise in front of me.

I complained this was taking too long so many times, and He would again, remind me of MY decision.

The only way out is THROUGH; there are NO shortcuts; and if you decide to keep standing, there are NO detours to get you to the end any faster.

More food for thought.

Take care.