[Rookie13]

Thundarr, just my .02.

In my opinion, you have yet to really heed/apply a lot of the advice giving to you on MLC.  I understand and went through the pain and the difference you may be seeing is a lot of the people here 'suck up' the advice and apply it to them selves and their sitch and share their experience's on how the advice helped and grow from it. You, my friend, I feel, think you take advice and apply it but in reality you find yourself back tracking and forgetting it is MLC and again want answers from your W. There are none Thundarr. Every story here starts 'in MLC"  You can find lots of answers to yourself here when you let go of logic.

I feel your to hurt to see MLC is a process that just plain and simple, defies logic. It cannot be fixed with any of your training, logic lenses etc. Throw your training and all logic out the window and go back to MLC training square one. 

You will/can not get past your own hurt "at times" to see others trying to 'help' you along with tips on how to 'get by' while the process happens. It has been stated 1000's of times to work on yourself, that has to mean something right?. meaning STOP thinking logical and just do for Thundarr and his children. We all go through our own hurtful tunnel and how long you remain in the hurtful tunnel depends on you. This site/forum is a VERY helpful tool to get through OUR tunnel, not the MLCer tunnel. That HAS to be understood.

I have read enough of your posts to know your sitch and even responded to you quite a few times here and some on LT. You my friend are stuck and it is causing you at times some frustration which sometimes can leak out. ( happens to us all, lol)   

Instead of re reading your own posts to see if you have been a "good boy" (lol, JK). Reread some of Ready's, HB's, Stayed's and all of RCR articles again and this time around "listen" to them with YOU in mind and NOT the MLCer. 

This Forum with the mentors in place can and does handle change. I believe it's to the Forum's best interest to grow even if an occasional 2x4 is needed and I am saying that in general.

Not to lose my point, but Thundarr, 'really' listening to the more advanced LBS's and applying and not listening to your hurt is 99% of getting through our tunnel and the fun talk and experience's here make life somewhat easier on a lot of people in my opinion.

Keep chuggin' my friend. 

P.S. This is not a 2x4, it is an FYI and hope it helps.

[Thundarr]

Rookie,

My friend, you are right.  I remain in terrible pain and I know the recent pleasant interactions exacerbate that.  But, I do want more of those and welcome them in the future and hope they aren't too few and far between.  I NEED to learn how to not be reactive to the one person who I am weak to.  I just have not accepted that my marriage may be over due to something completely beyond my control and unrelated to our relationship.  I may never accept that.  In many ways I feel like the star of "The Truman Show" in that this seems to be a script about MY life rather than my W.

As far as the "working on yourself," I feel that is often misconstrued as being "fix what was wrong with you and caused this."  The last thing I need to do is to stand in front of a mirror and make a list of my faults.  Of course, as RCR said, we ware always changing one way or another and this experience certainly changes us.  I did not mean to imply (no, it's not denial this time) that I do not need or will not change, but rather that I have spent 2 years doing self-analysis and feel I have a pretty good handle on what makes me tick.  Am I where I need to be at this point?  Probably not, but at the same time who really knows who is where they should be?  The reality of everything is that if you combine all the members here with those on LT, DB and any other site devoted to "MLC" you still would have nowhere near a large percentage of even a small city.  We ARE the exceptions rather than the rule, and whether that is due to factors that are not immediately evident (like-minded, computer savvy, etc) or just pure coincidence is not known to me.  This is uncharted territory for the most part for all of us and we may not even be close to knowing the BEST way to handle this situation, but I would argue that we are on the right track despite my "kicking and screaming" through my own levels of denial.

[hopingfourbetter]

T, Funny thing as I was driving back from a job today I was thinking the exact same thing about the members of mlc sites I doubt it would cover the city I live in. we are a small percentage!

  I just have not accepted that my marriage may be over due to something completely beyond my control and unrelated to our relationship./color]

  I really hope that you will not accept your marriage being over c'mon dude. Hfb

[justasking]

T

The way forward for you is to accept that the process underway is currently not logical nor makes any sense in a therapeatic scientific way. The science is much deeper than that and as pointed out people like RCR and HB are at the forefront in identifying the process etc. Each person is an individual and therefore moves through their journey dealing with their own issues.

At the moment you are trying to look at your wife and find what 'broke' her and then mend it so as you can all live happily after. Well you can't fix her only she has that ability for herself.

Give into the process and accept it as it is.

As for self analysis. May I suggest that once you accept your W MLC as a process you can't fix you then let the process lead you through the next stage of self analysis. It will happen but at the moment you are frightened of letting go. This part of your journey is not about mending you but further looking at you now your wife is off on her alien ship. Rookie makes some very good points with regard to this in his post.

Fear keeps us all in it's grasp until we no longer let and that is major move forward. We can hang onto fear for as long as you want to. But the day you think I will be ok without my wife, I don't need her to make me happy and I can't control the outcome of this journey only God can and you truly hand her over to Him then you are on your way forward.

But what you do is give every reason why you shouldn't go there and hold yourself back. The quicker you get the process and the sense of irrationality that is part of it the better your chances of surviving. Move forward Thundarr and stop giving reasons why you should stay stuck.

[Thundarr]

Amazing how fevered delirium actually gives clarity in some ways (or maybe I'm hallucinating).  Today is my 9-month BD anniversary and I can't believe it.  I realize I do fear PERMANENT change even though I've  even living it for awhile now.  I'm getting used to loneliness but I don't like it.  All the responsibility of the kids is weighing me down (how does Ziggee do it?).  D11 is becoming very ODD and I know it stems from her reaction to her mother rejecting her.  S7 now asks me daily in different ways if I love him and care about him.  He knows I do, but dammit, he should becable to take that for granted at this age.

Shout out to all the LT guys.  Where've ya been?

[WarriorPriestess]

Yeah, where is Ziggee?  Guess he's busy taking care of all those kids. 

[Doc Hudson]

S7 now asks me daily in different ways if I love him and care about him.  He knows I do, but dammit, he should becable to take that for granted at this age.

Thundarr, there is no way that a 7YO DOESN'T need this reassurance, with or without this crap.  This is probably the most difficult thing that he has ever dealt with.  If he was 17, he would still need it.  27?  I would agree with you.  I'm not sure that I understand your position.

[BonBon]

Wow, see, you go away for a few days and come back to a flurry of activity.  Such amazing and interesting posts on this thread lately!

I wanted to chime in as I have before on this notion of LBS growth.  I love all that WP wrote here already.

I've written this on my own and other's threads before but I just wanted to honestly say that when I came here, while I felt the people were lovely and helpful and the information amazing, the "work on myself" issue rankled me to no end.  To me, I could not get to a level of deeper understanding from what initially seemed like the disconnect between "you did not cause your spouse's MLC" to "You need to work on yourself".  Didn't make any sense to me. 

An amazing thing happened though.  I did work on myself but it was not to change who I was but rather, to survive this nightmare.  I did change.  I have lots of things that still need changing.  But these are all good things for ME.  I don't really care whether they are good for my spouse and we are reconnecting so its not as though its hopeless so why care...no, it is just that I am an individual who was contentedly lost in my relationship as a wife.  Sounds almost MLC, doesn't it?  But I know that I can be both a wife and an individual now.  I didn't even realize I was missing.  But I was....inside...

My marriage had one major problem and that was the lack of honest communication.  We managed to live with it and be happy on some level but it was not healthy.  I know that now though I did not know it then.  That is a problem that will need significant work as we move forward. 

Like HB, I was a pleaser.  I still am and that is my comfort zone but one that often leaves me angry, sad, disollusioned.  I have to work on my "fault" of being too nice.  That's the truth.  I don't blame myself for being at way but I can't make the world adapt to me...I have to adapt to it and why should I be miserable because people don't reciprocate?  That's become apparent.

I have been changing despite my protestations.  My marriage will change too...already has though I hope in a positive way in the future.  So I just want to say that I understand the resistance, sometimes the downright perception of insult, that we need to change but it requires deeper thought than the knee jerk reaction I at least had.

I did not cause my H's MLC...my marriage did cause my H's MLC...he owns that 100%, loud and clear whether our relationship needed work or not. 

But it was good for me to change...not my core but the way I dealt with things.  I have a long way to go but I recognize now that this work is good for ME and will make ME ultimately happier.

I hope that for everyone here.  I've changed as I've watched my H pass through each stage, despite myself.

And I do believe there is hope for people here regardless of odds or stats.  No guarantees and no clinging...just general hope as there should always be in life.

[limitless]

Thundarr,

As far as the "working on yourself," I feel that is often misconstrued as being "fix what was wrong with you and caused this."  The last thing I need to do is to stand in front of a mirror and make a list of my faults. 

Actually, I don't think ANYONE wants to stand in the mirror and make a list of our faults.  I certainly didn't want to! 
But, BD hit me HARD (just like everyone else, here) and I was forced to look at myself.  At the time, I was full of so much guilt - after all - it WAS all my fault?  Right? 

I spent a great deal of time soul searching and found - yes...I had some things about myself that I didn't really like and yes, I wanted to change those things for ME.  I also found out - there were quite a few really great things about me.  I learned to like myself, I learned to be alone (even though I prefer NOT to be) and I learned that the only limits I had were the ones that I put on myself.  I also learned that I did not need my MLCer...that I could live, - heck - I could even thrive without him.

Does that mean that I no longer hope for reconciliation?  No.  Not at all.  But, I no longer "live" for reconciliation.  I live for me and my kids.  As far as my MLCer - he's on his own.....I really wish him well....I really do.  But, I can't help him......and I accept that now.

Of course, as RCR said, we ware always changing one way or another and this experience certainly changes us.  I did not mean to imply (no, it's not denial this time) that I do not need or will not change, but rather that I have spent 2 years doing self-analysis and feel I have a pretty good handle on what makes me tick.  Am I where I need to be at this point?  Probably not, but at the same time who really knows who is where they should be?

Only YOU know the answer to that one.  When you realize that you are "there" (where ever that may be) - you will have been there for awhile.  You may not even notice it - until you are already there.  I know this sounds like some kind of code....but it isn't.  That's just the way it "worked" for me.  One day, I noticed, that I was no longer getting upset about anything to do with my MLCer......(It wasn't that long ago, either).   

The reality of everything is that if you combine all the members here with those on LT, DB and any other site devoted to "MLC" you still would have nowhere near a large percentage of even a small city.  We ARE the exceptions rather than the rule, and whether that is due to factors that are not immediately evident (like-minded, computer savvy, etc) or just pure coincidence is not known to me.  This is uncharted territory for the most part for all of us and we may not even be close to knowing the BEST way to handle this situation, but I would argue that we are on the right track despite my "kicking and screaming" through my own levels of denial.

I do believe that we are the exceptions, rather than the rule. 

I am very curious to see where the strategies used here by all the Standers take us.  My hope is that the majority of the posters here (I know ALL is way too high of a hope???) - keep sharing their stories - regardless of the outcome.  This might be the first real collection of data regarding Standing and the impact Standing has on not only the marriages, families and relationships, but the impact on the LBS.....

L

[hobo1]

Thundarr-  I understand what you mean about S7 should feel very safe, and not need to question a parent's love.  I know I have not been perfect...  but my S8 acts out, and I think it's to 'test' me to ensure that I still love him.

BonBon-Yes I believe you are correct regarding us being the exceptions...  Nobody in real life understands this...  heck, sometimes I still wonder if my Wife has MLC or not....