[moc]

Ziggee - you said: I have 6... but if I had just 4 the younger 4 it would be A LOT harder... I have 4 plus two live in sitters.... so I have it a LOT easier then most... the number just seems big and shocking.   Even the younger ones see the bigger ones chip in and step up....I hear ya pal!  I have 6 kids also but mine are divided 4 older and 2 younger.  You are fortunate that your older ones have stepped up and taken off some of the load.  My wife's insanity has pushed my older 4 semi-adults into their own little worlds.  So add on another teenager (my wife) and my world spins around with mounds of disrespect.  Sad too, we did pull together at first but since this whole MLC has dragged on for now nearly 10 months (yes, Thundarr and I are very close on this) this time around (2nd time for her to start this cr*p) they don't even help me out with nearly anything.  Walk away from it all?  Don't think I haven't thought about picking up my 2 babies (S9 and S5) and try to make a better life at it.  But I am still STANDING at this point.

Thundarr - sorry for that small hijack brother.  D19 is doing OK, and I know you need more out of her.  Your wife sees D19 as competition yet she also sees her as trying to be a BFF.  Yes, your wife needs to be a MOTHER not D19 or D11 BFF.  I have seen what you have wrote lately on D11 and her pain.  BTW, they (W, D19, D11) might be on the same "cycle" as hormones play a part in these young Ds lives right now.

What set you back was your weekend with wife...you say you had no expectations but that is actually unreal.  I know, I did the same pal.  You and I are like brothers man!  We do nearly the same as we are cosmically connected as we have discussed.  Keep giving the kids as much of a normal life as you can.  Do the regular routine and throw some curve balls in there to mix it up. 

You are getting "cabin fever" as much as many of the LBS are.  Remember, seasonal depression too has a lot of affect on many people this time of year.  Heck, my wife is getting "cabin fever" and I see it in her actions daily!  Talk about nerve wracking! 

Rookie is right, your children will see through the charade of gifts and other ways your wife is trying to buy their love.  I am not saying she does not love them.  But it is her guilt that is in control right now.  Of course we don't see their guilt and shame, in fact typing this I have troubles even accepting that they have any.  But I am reassured by MANY on this board it is their fuel and they can't stop.  Peace brother, text me any time this weekend if you want.

[Doc Hudson]

Thundarr, to me, in your recent post you talked about S8 asking you if you still loved him. why does he ask that? and you also feel he should understand you do. We get that you do, but we are not asking you the question, S8 is.

You should read about kids and separation of parents. I thought as a therapist it was basic training for you and this is not a slight. I really did think that.

Any idea what a child of 8 is really thinking when parents separate. Well I have read a lot and learned a lot as I too have an 8 yr old and a 5 year old and also a 17 yr old and a D19. You need to get on one knee and look your little one right in the eyes so you know you both are listening and tell him everything is going to be ok because daddy is here.

I was also fortunate to be taught by my father who is a psychologist on how to listen to children and assure them first.

I feel you are doing a good job 'holding the fort down' but i did hear your frustrations about the kids and I do hear more about what your ex is doing/not doing (which is understandable when dealing with mourning) but you need to let her go. You have bigger fish to fry that can be fixed including your grief.

Just trying to help thundarr. I was you my friend. again the rewards will come.

Exactly.  Thundarr, your S7 will need constant reassurance that you love him, that this is not his fault in any way, and that you will always be there for him.  It's obvious to you and me, but HE is 7.  For whatever reason, I don't think that you are seeing this through his eyes. 

[Thundarr]

I know he does need constant reassurance and he gets it.  As a CBT therapist, I know full well that traumatic events that happen between ages 3 and 7 are the most likely to endure into adulthood so I've worked to minimize the damage to him as much as possible.  He snuggles next to me on the couch every day and often will cling to me at night.  Seeing him go through this is really the hardest part for me as the girls seem to have a handle on it somewhat.  When W took him to the divorce class and he was asked to circle the faces that showed the emotions he has had about this, he not only circled "sad" but darkened it with a crayon too.  None of us deserve this, but I would take 10 times the pain if I could take theirs away. So I'm on top of the kid part as best I can be.

Finding it really hard to be positive today given I'm still sick as a dog and sore and weak.  Really hard to get positive.  D11 is sick at home again, and I'm considering going to work just to get my mind off things even though I'm not physically up to it.  Kids will be with W tonight and I'll miss them as always.

[Doc Hudson]

S7 now asks me daily in different ways if I love him and care about him.  He knows I do, but dammit, he should becable to take that for granted at this age.

Thundarr, I cannot seem to reconcile your previous post, copied above, with your most recent post.   No one in their right mind would think that a 7YO would be able to just 'take that for granted'.   I'm not saying this as a slight toward you.  Rather, I really think that you need help right now.  Professional help.  And I don't think that this is a misunderstanding on my part either.  Your other posts are disconcerting in a similar manner.  I am so tyring not to be harsh here.   

[Thundarr]

Ahhhh!!  I see how that post was misconstrued completely.  What I meant was how unfair it is that a small child should have to question whether or not a parent loves or cares about them.  I meant that he, like any child, has a right to security and love from their parents and up until several months ago he DID take it for granted.  I took for granted that my parents loved me when I was little.  Never even thought twice about it as it was accepted that was how things just were.  The fact that he has doubts breaks my heart, as that's something I never had go face.

NEVER would I mean that he should just be able to deal with anything going in now.  I could have worded that previous post better as I can see now.  To me, as a therapist and an advocate for kids I feel that being loved is the last thing a kid SHOULD have to worry about. 

Doc, you never have to hold back with me but I can see how you thought I was worse off than I am.  If you read back in my own thread I almost always have the kids with me and do as much as possible to get them out of the storm.  Thank you for your concerns, my friend, and I hope I clarified myself better this time.

[hobo1]

T- Doc doesn't hold back with anyone!   That is what keeps it interesting and everyone on their toes!

My S8 seems to be the opposite from your S7 though....  he seems like he 'doesn't' need me...  he doesn't want to talk, and is frequently rude and insensitive.  I will be the consistent father but it seems like he doesn't really care whether to see me or not.  I'd like for him to at least show some hint of wanting me in their lives....  he seem pretty apathetic.

It's like I lost my whole family, exiled.  I do have a unique sich...  Most people automatically assume I cheated or abused her, and that's why she is divorcing me.   Pretty sad.

[Thundarr]

TB,

I feel really bad for you given the sacrifices you have had to make.  But you have been such a stand-up guy that you have nothing to be ashamed of.  It may work in your favor that your W is staying in the house as the memory of you will be all around her.  Never give up hope, my friend, as long as R is what you really want.  She can't stay that way forever.

[Doc Hudson]

Most people automatically assume I cheated or abused her, and that's why she is divorcing me.   Pretty sad.

Hey, let people think what they want to think.  If anyone cares, they will ask.  And when they do, you tell them.  Absent that, F 'em.  Life's too short to run around worrying what other people think about you.  You keep doing the right things and be the good person that you are and the rest will sort itself out as needed.  This mindset alone will put you in a better place.

[BonBon]

Hobo,
Going out on a limb here when I speak of the "masses" but I think for all the progress we've made in gender stereotypes, the default assumption may be that the male was a cheater or wanted out.  Not fair.  Couple that with so few out there truly knowing of the MLC and what it really means, and that it is not in any way exclusive to males...yes, I'm not surprised people make incorrect assumptions.  I wish that were not so.

The bottom line though is no matter what people assume, we all suffer the humiliation of our spouse's MLC in one way or another. That can mean people making the wrong assumptions or our spouse's public acting out in various ways.  It's all galling and unfair as hell.  Stand tall and try not to let what people think bother you...not easy I know.  That said, its just a broader aspect of learning we can't control our spouses, nor can we control anyone but ourselves.  What we think and what we know is all that counts when you get right down to it.

I'm sorry about the situation with your son.  I have to think this will all be ironed out ultimately....

Best,
Bon

[justasking]

MLC is very very hard on our children both small and older. There whole world has been ripped apart and the father/mother they trusted has abandoned them.

They have a a range of swirling emotions and feelings. Fear, anger, mistrust, confusion to name a few. They won't talk to the LBS because they feel responsible for them and to upset them would be unforgivable. So they shoulder responsibility way beyond their years. They have to be told it's ok to cry and feel angry at the MLC.

My S was 12 when H left 3 days before his 13th birthday. He immediately took on the mantle of male in the family. I eventually gave him a big cuddle and told him that I wanted him to be my son not the man of the house. Once said his behaviour changed and he became a boy again.

We have to be prepared for them to challenge us, berate us and be angry with us too and also revert backwards if smaller to an earlier age in their development. This is all part of their healing towards understanding and acceptance.

Despite what our spouses have done our children deserve their childhood with unconditional love and security. They know that their father/mother isn't there for them at the moment but hopefully our children will have another parent to lean on and gain a deeper bond with until the MLCer reconnects with them. This relationship will carry them through.